Saying that “it was given to you because you’re white” and that the playing field may not be entirely level are not the same thing.
It’s always hard when a friend does something really wrong, especially if they don’t realize why it was wrong.
But rest assured it happens everywhere. God knows I heard PLENTY being said about me in Cameroon. And I couldn’t walk out the door without hearing “nassara” (white person) about a million times. I wouldn’t freak out about this too much. Many African cultures are very direct and it’s not uncommon for a disabled man’s nickname to be “stumpy” or a dark guy “black man”.
Yes, indeed, I know that happens in a lot of industries. I don’t think it happens in my profession – librarianship – partly because the profession is dominated by women, though even in libraries it used (a while ago) to be easier for men to be promoted to management positions.
However, I also suspect that, because I’m in a profession dominated by women, my own salary has been less than it might have been in another profession. But I’m not complaining: I make enough to live comfortably, and I enjoy my work.
Well, fair enough then. I’m sure there are plenty of situations where the papercut goes the other way.
First off, you’re a fool if you don’t think that black people don’t use racist terms to describe white people amongst themselves too. I’ve been in my black circle of friends as the “only white guy” and on more than a few occasions heard the expressions, “that honky” or “those crackas” before. Doesn’t make them racist, just stupid remarks people say sometimes.
Secondly, you put just about all white people in that category and that’s a broad generalization.
Third, you hate being white ?!?! Be proud of your race, there’s nothing wrong with being proud of your race, man. I would NEVER say I hate being white. It’s who you are. I’m open minded and a little on the liberal side too, but I’ll be damned if I will sit here and say that I’m ashamed of being white because some dillweed used the word nigger. Fuck that.
That is true, but I’ve never seen any evidence to the effect that the playing field is not level (in my favour). In fact given the amount of affirmative action and the like it certainly seems that the playing field is levelled against me now.
Now this may not always have been the case, but is certainly true in my working lifetime. In the 60s and 70s there was undoubtedly discrimination in the workplace, but nowadays no responsible employer would do this, the risks are too great for lawsuits and bad publicity. Not to mention the fact that discrimination is morally wrong.
The White Person’s Privilege Card. Don’t leave home without it! Good for discounts, automatic respect from maitre’Ds, all speeding tickets canceled.
I picture this White Person’s Privilege Card ad, based on the recent Visa card campaign: A roomful of white people are happily grooving to Pat Boone’s greatest hits, drinking buttermilk and reminiscing about saddle shoes. A Black Person walks in - the music grinds to a halt and there is an uncomfortable silence.
Then everyone realizes it’s only Obama, the music resumes, and everyone starts (gently) jiving again.
It IS kind of weird when white guys try to jump on the “I’m offended!” wagon. Come on. You’re not really offended. You didn’t read the OP and feel like he was besmirching the white race. It didn’t happen, so stop pretending it did.
I guess this sort of play-acting might stem from good intentions. We need a level playing field, so if you’d be offended if the races or genders or sexual orientations in the story were switched, then you should be offended at the original version.
Except that just doesn’t work, because everything is not equal. It’s like pretending to be confused about why it’s OK for black people to use the word “nigger” but not OK for white people. Why, this is racism, it shouldn’t matter which race uses the word, either it’s offensive or it isn’t. Except, it just isn’t. “Honkey” is not the same as “Nigger”. It just isn’t. We can’t erase the history of racial relations just by closing our eyes and wishing really hard. It doesn’t work that way.
I know the feeling. Just recently, someone implied that I receive “special rights” just because I’m white!
To me, being proud of your race is just as silly as being ashamed of it.
While I see where you’re going with that, by the same standard having pride in one’s country would be silly too- or any accident of birth.
Well, it is, isn’t it?
I can see moving to another country and be proud of that country, but gaining a nationality just from where you’re born and then taking pride in that… I just don’t get it. Being proud of some stuff and being ashamed of other, just like you are about your family, workplace, whatever, that’s another thing.
I’m not proud of being white. I can take pride in what I do, the way I act. Being proud of being of Nordic stock and born in Sweden, how could I be proud about that. It’s nothing I achieved, just the hand that was delt me.
Because we didn’t get enough discrimination in our childhood.
What HazelNutCoffee said. I know I’m cribbing from George Carlin, but it’s ridiculous to be proud of something that really has nothing to do with you, and which you didn’t achieve in any way. What’s to be proud of about being white? Do you enjoy sunburn? Do you feel like you helped paint the Sistine Chapel in some way, or recorded “Folsom Prison Blues?” Being proud of that is as reasonable as being ashamed of colonialism and slavery, or of Craig being a thoughless asshole. I make exceptions for people who’ve really been discriminated against - who have been treated in a way that was supposed to make them, or people like them, feel ashamed or looking or acting the way they do - but that sure as shit doesn’t apply to white people, least of all in the United States.
“It’s who you are?” Eh, bullshit. It’s who people say you are.
Thank god the OP was there to extend an official apology on behalf of white people everywhere
otherwise FUCK
Wow.
Methinks some people need to learn to understand exaggeration for effect. Good Lord! I was ranting, in the pit, and doing so with the full acknowledgment that I was waving a broad brush (I said it twice people!). For the record:
I am not ashamed of being white. I’m not particularly proud of it either, it just is. Sometimes it’s helped me, sometimes it’s worked against me, but, as I said, it just is.
I did turn to Craig and say “What the fuck?” when he made his offensive comment. He either ignored me or didn’t hear me, I tend to think the later. Should I have punched him in the face to prove my superior views on race?
Don’t fight the hypothetical, I’m willing to bet that I am in every way a better individual than you. Fuck me? I would invite you to felch a dead goat, but that would be a waste of a perfectly good dead goat and an insult to those who engage in that practice for fun.
C’mon, Dave, you’re a shit-stirrer, and we all know it. Don’t try to be playing the ingenue now. As others have said, yeah, we know you were painting with a broad brush; acknowledging you were doing it maybe means you should have perhaps NOT been doing it.
Well, that’s an interesting statement. Why don’t you just call me a troll? Some people have taken offense to the form that my OP took, fine, but I was/am honestly angry about what happened. That makes me a “shit stirrer”?
I love the splendid irony that Weirddave is so offended that the word nigger was used that he pits all white people (however satirically) in the need to have his “I’m not Racist” visa punched, yet he calls me (and by extension all other gay Dopers) a faggot in Great Debates and for gravy brings up the fact I suffered some emotional meltdowns when my mother died.
Yeah, he’s a caring sensitive sort he. Why can’t more white people be like him? Even has black friends. I’ll bet black people love him in fact. (He will of course no doubt claim that “I never called anybody a faggot… I just happened to use the words faggot and referred to dead mothers in general to make a point about not joking in a G.D. thread”, but rather like the guy with Tourettes I once knew whose mother would swear “When he says 'bitch, nigger, spic, gook, kike and those other racist and sexist words he can’t help it. He doesn’t even know what he’s saying…” The can’t help it part I believe was true enough, but couldn’t help but notice that for someone who’s making them involuntarily and doesn’t know their meaning he certainly used them appropriately- never says ‘nigger’ when he’s talking to a Jew or gook when he’s talking to a woman."
Maybe you ought to go back and read my latest reply in that thread. I didn’t ask about gay jokes or dead mother jokes “to make a point about not joking in a G.D. thread”, I asked about them(nowhere did I make a gay joke or a dead mother joke) to make the point that you were being PERSONALLY offensive. By your post there and your little Bon mot here, I see I got through to you. Now, are you man enough to admit that I have a point as well, or is offense a one way street with you?