[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
This is about a coworker feeling that work is an appropriate place to make judgements about your non-work life.
[/QUOTE]
No, not really. I mean, yeah, sort of, but it goes beyond that. The question and comment would be every bit as out of place in other environments as well.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Hello, are you living in the past or the world of TV?
Do you really feel this still is the norm today? Most families I know have both parents working and the father nearly as active as the mom in raising the kids, helping with homework, entertaining, disciplining, teaching and etc.
Your stereotypes seem to be dated or taken from the world of TV and especially TVland and not reality.
[/QUOTE]
This may be true, but I kind of agree with what Gala Matrix Fire said in spirit.
I, too, would be more inclined to have kids if I could be the dad instead of the mom. While it is quite probably true that men are much more involved with their kids now than they were in the “old days,” the fact remains that it’s the mom who has to put up with the bulk of the annoying biological details (pregnancy, body changes, breastfeeding, cravings, mood swings, etc). and it’s also my perception (and admittedly I have limited experience, so take it for what it’s worth) that mothers are societally expected to behave around kids differently than fathers are. It seems like a lot of women look sideways at other women who aren’t properly nurturing, who don’t do “all the right things” for the baby, etc. Yes, moms play with kids. Yes, moms can be (and are) disciplinarians. But stereotypically between mom and dad, mom is the nurturer while dad can get away with being both “the fun one” and the disciplinarian.
Since I have no nurturing instinct toward human children whatsoever (any I have is directed at cats), that’s a role I would not be comfortable with. As a father, I would have a level of detachment from parenthood (maybe “detachment” isn’t the right word–of course most fathers love their kids every bit as much as Mom does, but I do submit that the “carry the kid for 9 months and give birth to it” thing does give Mom just a bit of an edge in the emotional-investment department, and society expects her to behave appropriately. I can’t do that. Therefore, I have no kids.)
Please feel free to tell me I’m full of crap–I won’t be offended. 
The only absolute here is that I don’t want kids and would be a lousy mother. My reasons work for me, but YMMV.
[QUOTE=tdn]
No, not really. I mean, yeah, sort of, but it goes beyond that. The question and comment would be every bit as out of place in other environments as well.
[/QUOTE]
Yep. But in our real life, our option is to socially cut that person from our lives when “I beg your pardon” doesn’t work. In your social environment, if you tolerate the bitch, there is a certain amount of culpability. Your work life is different - no one should have to tolerate a hostile work environment - and most of us need to tolerate the environment at our jobs. And frankly, being told you’ll never be a real woman is a very hostile thing to say.
(Note, I’m not talking about a work environment that meets the legal definition of hostile.)
[QUOTE=mswas]
If you think that having a child ‘wrecks your vagina’, then I guess I can’t explain it to you.
[/QUOTE]
Tell you what–when you’ve spent two hours post partum having over 100 stitches placed in your perineum, then tried to have sex seven weeks later with a vagina that feels like a painful railroad track, then had to do Kegel exercises faithfully for every single day of the subsequent thirty two years in order to avoid peeing yourself every time you sneeze or cough, you can have an opinion on this subject, okay? Until then I think your cavalier attitude is pretty unwarranted.
Those of you offended by less than glowing terms used for children, I don’t like children, and while I have to quietly tolerate other people’s children in public because I live in a society, I don’t feel the slightest inclination to bow to your over-zealous sensitivities here.
scribbles down “fucktrophy” and “crotchfruit”
My darlings have new nicknames!
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Hello, are you living in the past or the world of TV?
Do you really feel this still is the norm today? Most families I know have both parents working and the father nearly as active as the mom in raising the kids, helping with homework, entertaining, disciplining, teaching and etc.
Your stereotypes seem to be dated or taken from the world of TV and especially TVland and not reality.
[/QUOTE]
I read that post as sarcastic. YMMV.
[QUOTE=SmartAleq]
Tell you what–when you’ve spent two hours post partum having over 100 stitches placed in your perineum, then tried to have sex seven weeks later with a vagina that feels like a painful railroad track, then had to do Kegel exercises faithfully for every single day of the subsequent thirty two years in order to avoid peeing yourself every time you sneeze or cough, you can have an opinion on this subject, okay? Until then I think your cavalier attitude is pretty unwarranted.
[/QUOTE]
This is highly unfortunate, but it’s hardly the norm.
[QUOTE=SmartAleq]
Tell you what–when you’ve spent two hours post partum having over 100 stitches placed in your perineum, then tried to have sex seven weeks later with a vagina that feels like a painful railroad track, then had to do Kegel exercises faithfully for every single day of the subsequent thirty two years in order to avoid peeing yourself every time you sneeze or cough
[/QUOTE]
Let me guess – he come out upside-down?
Freakin’ ouch, man.
[QUOTE=pbbth]
Those were her actual words, “You’ll never be a real woman until you have a child.”
[/QUOTE]
This is incorrect. The actual rule is: “You’ll never be a real woman until you can swallow and not spit.”
At least that’s what I tried to convince my high school girlfriends.
Anyway, perhaps if you explain to her that you thought THAT was the rule, she’ll understand.
Swallowing a baby is wrong on so many levels.
[QUOTE=photopat]
I read that post as sarcastic. YMMV.
[/QUOTE]
I hope you are right, but I missed any indication that it was.
winterhawk11, I understand what you are saying and it is easier on the Dads as we don’t go through the pregnancy. We are usually not expected to be the in house nurse either. I only responded as Gala Matrix Fire seemed to be taking the old attitude that I don’t believe is true any more. I would never claim that on average Dads take 50% of the child rearing on, but it is a far cry from what **Gala ** was describing.
BTW: If the Mom actually is a full time stay at home Mom, than I would expect the child care to be closer to the old days. Just as I would expect a stay at home Dad to be doing the lion’s share of the child care. That is kind of the job description at that point.
I just hope it is not as bad as it got in my home when I was a kid and my Dad was used as the warning of punishment by my Mom. She really abused the old stereotypes far too much.
[QUOTE=tdn]
Let me guess – he come out upside-down?
Freakin’ ouch, man.
[/QUOTE]
Nope, hospital delivery, circa mid-seventies, large IV drip of pitocin and feet fastened in stirrups–girl came through like an 8 lb freight train without even pausing for such trivialities as muscle tissue in her way, shot out like a watermelon seed and the doctor juggled her and nearly dropped her. Pitocin is TEH EVIL!
This is why I opted for a home delivery for the second child, fifteen months later. I did a hands and knees delivery of a two weeks overdue, 9.5 lb baby and didn’t tear at all. Well, one tiny little tag that I declined to have stitched, preferring to leave it as a battle scar.
So yeah, while having babies doesn’t necessarily have to be permanently damaging to the lady bits, it’s a definite concern. There’s also the chance of really horribly unfortunate stretch marks on the belly that make you look like Tara Reid, C-section scars that can’t be completely ruled out and sometimes your tits can grow to outrageous sizes, leaving lopsidedness and stretch marks behind. Pregnancy isn’t always sunshine and roses, and the sequelae can range from annoying and unsightly right on up to “being dead.” It’s not for everybody and anyone who casually dismisses a woman’s right to remain childless is tacky and rude and could use a resounding cunt punt.
[QUOTE=stargazer]
You know what I find equally rude and annoying? That it doesn’t stop after you have a kid. Really. I have a one-year-old, and since he was maybe 3 months old people have been asking me when we’re going to have another! Not “if,” but “when!”
Amazing.
[/QUOTE]
“Oh, you’re right. If something happens to this one, I should have a spare, shouldn’t I?” In your nicest, most reasonable tone. Followed by a death glare.
[QUOTE=tdn]
Swallowing a baby is wrong on so many levels.
[/QUOTE]
Q: If storks bring babies, what kind of birds don’t bring babies?
A: Swallows!
[QUOTE=tdn]
Swallowing a baby is wrong on so many levels.
[/QUOTE]
Really! I mean, we’re not animals for fuck’s sake. Chew your food!
“No one else is allowed to play with the buzz saw, you hear me? I’ve lost enough kids today! Sorry, what were you saying?”
[QUOTE=Dung Beetle]
scribbles down “fucktrophy” and “crotchfruit”
My darlings have new nicknames!
[/QUOTE]
I prefer “people larvae” myself.
TroubleAgain,
Childless by Choice
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Wow, you have truly gone out of your way to reinforce my Childless Vagina movement!
Honestly, the thought of pregnancy scares me a hell of a lot more than the actual raising of a child, though that is a pretty scary thought too! I have talked to the boyfriend about my feelings on sproglets (briefly and in a casual way…we haven’t been together long enough to have that particular conversation!) and I explained that even if I do change my mind about raising a child I really don’t think I will ever change my mind about birthing one, so any potential child I might have in the future would be adopted. His response was that since he is diabetic and doesn’t want to pass on that particular gene that he would also choose adoption if he felt the need to be a parent. This makes me full of squee! 
But that is still a very big “if!”
Boy, anyone who says that you can’t be a “real woman” without having kids comes off sounding like someone who subconciously regrets having her own kids and is just trying to make herself feel better.
And I think the rude question wasn’t, “Do you have kids?” It was, “Why not?” That’s a question that I might bring up with a very very close friend, but it’s far too personal for your average workplace.