I know some people are going to judge me after this post, but this something that’s been bothering me for too long, and I want to share my thoughts and feelings no matter how sexist, classist and whatever-ist they may be…
I’ve been in a commited relationship with a girl for almost a year now. She has been dedicated and loyal in this relationship as much as anyone can hope for. But she has always had this interest (that borders on obsession) with all things spanish, the language, culture, music, cinema, etc. She is practically fluent in spanish now thanks to her unfettered dedication to learning the language. This is without a doubt a very admirable feat. But something that undoubtedly helped her achieve this level of fluency is her involvement with hispanic men. I have little doubt that she would not have been involved with these men if they did not speak spanish. In fact, one of them did not even speak english, being an illegal immigrant (this bothers me especially, and has thus revealing to me how classist I am).
Because of her history, which should be irrelevant to me, whenever she pursues anything spanish related, I feel a small amount of anger that I know that shouldn’t be there.
I know these feelings are ultimately unreasonable and unhealthy for the relationship but I can’t stop this gut reaction from happening. I’m not sure what I can do, and it’s been almost a year now and these feelings don’t seem to be going away on their own. I know when she goes to Madrid for a semester abroad next year I am going to be consumed by jealousy. Can anyone offer any advice on what I should do? And feel free to critisize me on being an asshole or whatever. Nothing new there.
If she hasn’t given you reason to think she’s cheating on you, you’re being a jerk. Since you know you are harboring irrational feelings on the subject, invest some time in a shrink. They can probably teach you some behavior modification techniques that will help you chill out and enjoy the relationship for what it is rather than stressing about something that isn’t there.
Learn Spanish.
Sorry, can’t remember your gender, but nonetheless:
You ever hear about “Football Widows?”
Well, it sounds like you are a “Spanish Widower.” Too bad. However, I say you should stick with her.
He’s not being a jerk unless he’s acting like a jerk. Just having irrational fears doesn’t make one a jerk.
Somebody’ll be along in a bit to say you should break up with her, but I want to second Kalhoun’s suggestion to get some help first, or instead. If you just break up with her without trying to get over this, you’ll just take it with you into your next relationship, and you don’t need this.
Look, you don’t have control over how you feel. You do have control over how you behave. So long as you’re not accusing her or giving her a hard time about her involvement with the Spanish language, you’re not being a jerk.
I like the suggestion to learn Spanish. Imagine, if she’s already loyal and loving just how much more into you she’ll be if you speak that language that gets her all worked up.
Don’t let on about your anger or jealousy. Those are your problems, not hers. If necessary, talk to some sort of counselor about it. Recognize it for what it is - insecurity. Find a constructive way to deal with it (like, learning Spanish), and let it go. Otherwise, you’re going to make yourself nuts and end up pushing your lady away.
Sorry…I read it that he was expressing this anger to her. My bad. Not a jerk. But you still need to see a shrink.
IANAP, but…
One of the more remarkable abilities of the human mind is to make connections. This is why people sometimes have difficulty driving at the same time of day, seeing the same kind of car, or driving to the same intersection as was involved in their recent car accident. And why former drug users are tempted to relapse upon experiencing ‘triggers’, like hearing songs they used to get high to, or seeing the park they used to smoke joints at, or driving by the smoke shop they used to buy pipes and papers at. Emotions tend to tie themselves tightly to things which should normally be detached from emotion.
Hispanic language, culture, etc. are that normally-detached thing which is tightly tied to the emotion, which is fear of infidelity.
It’s tough to overcome those things. Have you talked to your SO about it? If she knows those things bother you on that level, she can reassure you that she’s not—
hell, I just got another idea. Learn Spanish. That way you don’t feel like she can go behind your back when she does all that stuff. Plus, you’ll be able to exchange sweet nothings in Spanish, a pastime which FWIW my girlfriend and I enjoy highly.
Reading DeVena’s post, I guess that was already suggested. But yeah, I think it’s a good idea. Better yet, have her teach you Spanish.
He’s not being a jerk, he just can’t help having the thoughts he desperately wants to get rid of.
random, try this: Consider that she may well be cheating on you. It’s a distinct, even if remote, possibility, right? Now take out a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle to divide it into two columns. Label one “evidence for”, and the other “evidence against.” Fill up both columns. Don’t be shy, write down everything that comes to mind. Even the crazy stuff. When you are done, compare and contrast. What conclusions do you draw?
Now do the same thing, except label the columns “Benefits of being jealous” and “Benefits of not being jealous.” List things, and for each item, assign a point value. For instance, in the first column, you might write “I won’t let her make a fool of me.” That’s not a huge benefit, so you might give it a value of 10. In the other column, you might write “Peace of mind.” That might rate as much as 100, because that’s a huge benefit. When you’re done, add up the numbers. Compare and contrast.
It seems like a silly exercise, but you might be surprised at how well it works. You confront your fears directly and the outcome is likely to be to your benefit. And you can do it as often as you need to for the price of a few sheets of paper.
Insecurity and immaturity are fueling these thoughts and turning them toxic and turning you inside out.
Somehow I keep picturing a Spanish version of Kevin Kline and Jamie Leigh Curtis in “A Fish Called Wanda”
I keep picturing the moral of Chasing Amy.
Can’t help here much. You have to evaluate the relationship according to how it fits with you.
I will only offer up one question: Given things working out between you, would you trust this woman completely, implicitly, with no doubts whatever? I mean if you were weathier than Bill Gates and then became a pauper, would she still be by you? Would she uplift you? Would she live in a cardboard box for you with no resentment?
Then, would you do the same for her?
Only you can make these judgements, and I do offer my best wishes to the both of you.
Interesting. I didn’t realize that there was another lady out there with Spanish as a major hobby. It’s kind of an odd hobby, but it has been a major interest in my life for a long time. And up through college, dating was a particularly fun way to practice my hobby. I will say, though, that when I was dating a non-Spanish-speaking guy, it never, ever crossed my mind to dump him or cheat on him just because I had a chance with a Spanish or Hispanic guy. Kind of like if your hobby is mountain biking, are you constantly on the lookout for a girl who also goes mountain biking?
Also interestingly, my husband decided to learn Spanish after we got married. For an adult learner, he did great! He can read books and magazines now, and understand quite a bit, and make small talk. I think his motivation was a little bit to share a hobby with me and a little bit competitive, since speaking Spanish was something I could do and he couldn’t. We’ve both used our Spanish language skills to do volunteer work. A lot of people at his work and our church have been really impressed with what he’s learned. This is kind of like if your hobby is mountain biking, and your girlfriend takes it up. Cool, right? Since it sounds like you are both in college, you could take or just audit a Spanish class as a way to get started.
I don’t think either of us wants this to be a Great Debates style discussion of illegal immigration. But I’ll just point out that immigration law doesn’t necessarily make more sense than a lot of other laws that we tolerate people breaking. I know I have friends who have DWI, lied on their taxes, taken illegal drugs, stolen stuff, worked and/or paid people under the table, etc. I don’t applaud that behavior, but I would encourage you to consider that immigration is one of many areas where our laws aren’t perfect and there are other factors at work.
Good luck to you in working through this issue with your SO.
Of course there are. A close friend of mine sharing the same hobby eventually relocated in Chile as a result, unfortunately (for me). Not intended to frighten the OP : the guys she seriously dated (as opposed to flings), even in Santiago, happened to all be non-hispanics until the last one, who is Chilean.
Interests in a specific culture and likehood of cheating upon your current bf/gf are unrelated, IMO/IME. For instance in the case of this friend, spliting with her former bf was a very painful (on both side) and long process despite her living surrounded by hispanics. It didn’t change her behavior or feelings.
Similarily, my ex had a huge interest for latin america and also not for spanish but for music. So, of course, a latino-american musician would have had in theory a significant advantage over me (and not surprisingly, her next boyfriend was a peruvian musician). Still, cheating wasn’t and still isn’t on her agenda. I didn’thave to be particularily worried about her meeting musicians, or peruvians. But had I to compete with such a guy on the day I met her, I probably would have been SOL.
Think about it that way : given her interest, an hispanic man has an edge over a non-hispanic man. In the same way, say, an attractive man would have an edge over a less attractive one. Besides, she’s more likely, due to her interest, to meet an hispanic man than another girl would. But this doesn’t change her personnality. If she’s in love and has a tendancy to be faithful, she isn’t any more likely to leave you just because she meet hispanic men. If she isn’t that much faithful, then you could have to worry, but the fact she’s more likely to cheat on you with an hispanic than with an anglo isn’t really the issue. You have to worry about her commitment, not about what kind of men she could pick if she feels inclined to leave you/ cheat upon you.
Going to Spain might be for her the equivalent of going to a place where men have a trait attractive for her, like going to a place where men tend to be more attractive or richer or funnier than the average guy back home. Then again, maybe you’d feel equally jealous if she actually was going to a place where for some reason, men were more attractive than in your hometown. But of course, assuming that you’ve no objective reason to believe that she isn’t commited/fed up with you/ not faithful, the problem is your insecurities. Ultimately, it’s her personnality, her love (or lack thereof), etc… that will be the deciding factor in her staying faithful to you or not, not the availability of spanish-speakers, or tall dark-haired, blue-eyed men, or whatever else…
Some peole advised you to learn spanish, I wouldn’t do so (and I’m studying spanish myself, so it’s not because I think it’s a bad idea in itself). Of course, if she managed somehow to make you share her interest, that would be great. But otherwise, if you were going to study it just to “keep up”, to feign an interest in spanish-related stuff in order to appear more attractive to her, it would be both a waste of your time and quite unhealthy.
As for how dealing with jealousy, not being jealous by nature myself, I really couldn’t help. I’ve experienced jealousy once, though (and it’s highly unpleasant), and to this day it’s still a complete mistery to me (along with the whole relationship, actually). This girl happened to have much more opportunities to cheat upon me than other partners I had (long-distance relationship, her being a student, really attractive, etc…) but still I know I wouldn’t have been jealous if my other former partners had been in the same situation (actually, I wouldn’t even have been very worried had one of them actually slept with another guy) . Basically it felt down, as far as I can tell, to me lacking confidence in her. Not to the availability or supposed attractiveness of potential suitors.
A last thing, just in case : I know that I resent much more a partner or even former partner being attracted to someone I dislike for whatever reason. It might be his personnality, or way of life, or whatever else. Sort of : “What!!! She’d rather have this than me???” . So…no offense intended, but I’m going to ask : to you have a particular dislike of hispanic men, and if yes does it play a part in your feelings?
Sorry for the (at first unintended) long post…
I guess it somewhat plays a part in my feelings towards the illegal immigrant guy, although that was in the past and thus irrelevant. I will honestly admit that I resent the “great lover” stereotype that hispanic men seem to enjoy. The preppy, hair-gelled-back hispanic men seem sleazy more than anything to me but some women really seem to go for that style. So I will admit there’s an element of “what’s so great about them?” going on.
Also what’s troubling about this is not so much worries of infidelity (although that plays a part, and has the potential grow in magnitude when she’s in Madrid), it’s this ridiculously fixation on her past. These spanish related things make me angry because of their connection to her history, and no one likes to think about their SO with another person. I torture myself needlessly by thinking about that when I shouldn’t be wasting my energy on something neither of us can change.
I know these thoughts are ultimately linked to my insecurities because I have noticed they’re worse when I feel vulnerable in the relationship.
I’ve never had these problems in other relationships, but then again this is by far the most serious relationship I’ve been in.
Thanks for the advice so far, I hope to hear more since I’ve further elaborated on my predicament.
This is the center of your problem/challenge. Unless she is the only woman you’ve ever been involved with, you have a history too. Everybody does.
Prior to being your SO, what was she? A stranger. What strangers do is/was their business. Meeting her at age, say, 25, does NOT mean you get to own her history prior to that point. Nor does she get to own yours.
You said no one likes to think about their SO with another person. I’d be unhappy about the idea of my wife sleeping with somebody else now, but the idea she did so with people I’ve never even heard of BEFORE I met her is utterly immaterial. I can’t even imagine it, much less get worked up over it. And I’d be disappointed/annoyed if my wife was all bent out of shape over the GF before her.
Repeat: you don’t own her history. You don’t have a stake in her history. It is what it is, and that’s the end of it.
If you can get your emotions to accept that, you’ll be fine. If not, you’ll have this problem with every woman you meet for the rest of your life. Because they’ll all have history before you, and the older you get, the more they’ll have.
Unreasonable jealosy will ruin your life if you don’t learn to manage it.
“Why can’t I get over my SO’s history?” - r4nd0mNumb3rs
“History is a dream from which we are trying to awaken” - James Joyce
Even with the anonymity of a message board, it isn’t easy for the OP to admit his hang-up. I admire him for that. Having been there myself, I can vouch that the worst thing about this is that you knows in your heart that you’re wrong, and still you can’t feel any differently. But it’s the truly fucked-up people who tell themselves how they’re supposed to feel, and then try to force it. The best thing to do is to try to see through the smokescreens.
Your smokescreen is the “Hispanic Guy” thing. This isn’t about Hispanic guys (or Black guys, or guys in bands, or uncircumcised guys, etc…) or even about your SO. It’s about you yourself, and your grasping at a “deal breaker” in a relationship you may not be ready for, with someone who, for all her great qualities, may not be able to stay with you for whatever reason.
Since you posted in asking for input, based on my hindsight, I’ll go ahead and give mine: r4nd0mNumb3rs, you are going to lose this woman. You are not going to resolve that most pressing issue of everyone’s youth: namely finding a mate, just now with this particular person. You can force this loss to occur by being a dick about her past, or you can let the relationship die a natural death. That’s about the only choice you have.
This is a harder thing for guys to deal with. and in fact more young men than women commit suicide after break-ups, becuase, to them, it represents not graduating from childhood into adulthood; and boys are constantly under tremendous pressure to become men. Added to this pressure is your particular guilt at being uncool about her sexual history. The pressure to be cool is pretty heavy too. (do people still say "cool?’ cut me some slack - they did when I was going through this.)
I think you’re a good guy trying to be in a wrong situation. I’ts not fair to your SO, it’s not fair to the woman/women who’s future you actually are destined to be a part of, and it’s not fair to the person you need to grow into to reach that destiny.
You’re not classist for being bothered by illegal immigrants.
You are, however, somewhat of a jerk for not being supportive of your SO’s desire to learn. That’s something important to her and I think you should be supportive of it, whether you like it or not.