WHy can't I like the nice, stable ones, dammit?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
61

Way back, when I was in university I asked this one girl out. She said no, but then said, “Y’know, you’re a really nice guy.” I still cringe when I think back to it.

I’m 34 now and have been lonely and single for many, many years. Over the years I have drifted off from my friends, so I do everything by myself (going out, eating at restaurants, going to a movie). As well I’ve always been quite shy, so I always found it difficult to approach women. Yes, they don’t bite (at least, the non-rabid ones don’t :wink: ) but I still find it tough. However I try to go out (and exercise!) and I’m determined that this summer I’ll actually have some success.

Global Citizen

62

Hey good luck Eva Luna with Dude #2 hope it goes well.

I had a chat with male friend last night and apparently I am “far to independent for my own good”. WTF???

I well and truly give up.

ems - looking for the phone number in the phone book of the nearest nunnery

63

Despite my recent relatively good dating fortune (i have a thread about it around here somewhere) , I still feel everybody’s pain. In fact. I’m starting, after one date, to get that restlessness i get when i meet a good girl.

the thing that made me uncomfortable about my good girl date last night, was that from the word GO, she was super impressed and eager to go out again, and when i asked her out on a second date, she was, by my estimation, a leetle too excited about it.

Of course part of me feels like that reeks of desperation on her part, and i feel justified inbeing a little uncomfortable, but another part of me thinks “well, fuck, i tell myself i am a good catch, and I try really hard ot be a good date, so why shouldn’t a girl be excited about the prospect of us going out again?” and then i start feeling like a schmuck.

Its like the old woody allen saying “I would never want to belong to a club that would have someone like me as a member.” Sometimes i feel like if the girl is nice and sweet and impressed by me, then theres something wrong with her cuz she can’t see my inner asshole.

I keep going back and forth. We’re going out again saturday night. So hopefully that will help me solidify things one way or another.

Chris (who truly does believe that “the most lost and wasted attract the most balanced and sane”*, but just doesn’t know which one he is yet)

*Woodie Guthrie, as channeled by Billy Bragg and Wilco

64

It is impossible for male behavior to be sexually re-enforced by a female for logical consistancy unless prostitution is used.
What you are seeing as “asshole” is a person who posseses logical corruption. If females based sexual reward on looks, money or intelligence (logically consistant); males would not be required to use algorythms of logical inconsistancy to burn their image into the pattern seeking mechenism of the female subconscious; in order to ‘get sex’. The only other way to recieve sex from a female is to reverse engineer their indentured system; and implant your image upon it - this however creates obsession and should really only be performed by an expert.

To give real life example of these applications would probably depress you. Females, (as far as sex is concerned) unfortunately, are not human beings accorded with free-will.
You literally have to beat the holy-living-crap out of everything a female believes herself to be in order to elicit “consensual” sex.
Females are very timid, when it comes to being logically consistant in regards to sex; however physical force is often called sexual harassment or rape (even though quite a bit is required to elicit sexual concession regardless). Since this is the case; males resort to psychic violence.

Remember your thread: “Why are males more willing to sleep with females they actively dislike?”

The entire question is a ‘female question’ as I eluded to in my last reply on that thread. Guys who are considered players, are the ones who take the time to like and/or dislike people; a quality associated with inherent logical corruption. Other qualities that are inherent logical corruptions are gossip, critisism, idolism and story telling… These are only one-teir algorythmic separations from logical incorruption. The first guy to speak it; runs a counter-intelligence coup over all the other males… the reason being;

Axiom: Females do not reward logical consistancy with sex

A one-teir logical corruption of these qualities requires the person judged (both real and imaginary) to defend themselves in a logically consistant way in order to place themselves back into the pattern seeking mechanism of the female brain.

Basically; they are being deleted - and in order to re-enter, they must speak in a logically consistant means; which collapses sex via the axiom.

Obviously, since females do not have free-will when it comes to sex - their own gossips illustrate corrupt logic. What to you is a timid “nice-guy” is an individual who inspite of their voracious sexual appetite will not resort to abusing you in order to fullfill it.
They will opt to treat you like a human being. It’s a martyrdom of conviction rather than glory; and requires quite the opposite of timidity.

Guys who understand females and sex know that this:
“”""""“gossip, critisism, idolism and story telling…”""""""
equals rape.

You’ll have a roomfull of guys basically staring at all of these weapons laying on the floor; and not picking them up. The most logically inconsistant males will be the ones who actually do pick them up. With a boring accuracy of 100%, all the others will realize that a ‘rape’ is occurring; unbeknownst to the female (like date-rape drugs these days). This however is so ingrained into the female personality; that any attempt to break up a rape in progress will result in her severe admonishment of you as a human being of (her percieved) free-will.

Anyhow; females can catch up in their early 40’s - but for the most part, never connect action with logical consistancy - rather they thrive on counter-intelligence. If you want to have sex with a female and not pay cash; you need to fundamentally force yourself to train logically inconsistant speech and behavior.

To not fully comprehend these dynamics; gives males the luxury of claming sincerity - something again, that females are very attracted to sexually. Females do not appreciate virtue in regards to sex however.

-Justhink

65

Something I can’t articulate enough to women in terms of ‘nice guys’, is that they are more than capable of saying and doing the things that ‘bad guys’ do.

“”""“You’ll have a roomfull of guys basically staring at all of these weapons laying on the floor; and not picking them up.”""""""

Read that statement; learn that statement.

Until a guy is comfortable with the idea that they are not ‘raping’ you; they will not afford themselves the free-will to engage you in the manners which constitute an exchange based on trust. They will not be the guys that you are looking for until they can be convinced that you are acting with them of your own free-will.
What you are noticing about the ‘weirdness’ is the males own guilt and apprehension. If you attack them; they will, if they have it in them, open up. Either way; female sex is a re-enforcement of male behavior patterns - with males that want a more relaxed means of communication with a female, the conversations will be brewing on the surface as gifts to give for selecting them (without them forcing themselves upon you). If the male is inclined in this direction; after sex, you will begin to see them blossom as personal companions.

-Justhink

66

that kinda scared me a little bit.
anybody else?

67

“”""“If you attack them; they will, if they have it in them, open up.”""

This may sound odd at first, so I figured I’d clarify it a bit.

If a guy wanders around asking all the females that he wants sex with if they want to go have sex; from Brad Pitt to Igor - they’ll be lucky to get a 800 lb drunk woman to agree, and not slap them silly or call them on this blatant sexual harassment and get all the players to kick them out.

If a woman does the same thing; they won’t have to walk very far at all to grab an attractive male (this is largely a result of the female pattern of rewarding the same narrow set of men with all of their sex before settling down, leaving a vast segment of the male population sexually deprived.).

To a male; this act more than any other shows evidence of free-will on the females part. She made a decision; “To hell with what he thinks or anyone else thinks - I’m gonna screw this guy.” If he says no; no love lost, there’s another hot guy a few feet away. But at least this guy knows that she went out and did something of her own accord. That; to a guy, the ‘nice guys’ is the evidence they are looking for - evidence of free-will. Females; by requiring more than the simple question, make themselves volnerable to psychology that is required to be corrupt; by the very nature of how sentience evolved in humans. That’s the general point, without getting much further…

-Justhink

68

Very true, and very well put. I, too, was socially conditioned against being a "Bad Guy"™, and I’m sure it hurt my chances on the dating scene.

Of course, I’m married now. Pepper Mill likes Good Guys, fortunately for me.

69

ems, thanks for the good wishes (I’m psyched; how many guys would be willing to go Bulgarian folk dancing? I think it’s a sign!), but don’t give up on yourself and/or the male half of humanity!

I don’t know where your friend is coming from, but this sounds like a cop-out. Too independent? What the hell does that mean? That you know what you want and go after it? Or that you know what you don’t want and stay away from it? Either way, it sounds silly. If a guy is worth his salt, he will understand and appreciate your independence.

Sometimes I feel like we women can’t win; we’re either too independent, or too clingy and need to get a life of our own. Be true to yourself (which somehow I’m doubting will involve a convent), be a bit of a good feminist, and good things will follow. Maybe not as immediately as you would like, but they will eventually follow.

Bad Hat, just try relaxing and letting both of you enjoy yourselves, willya please? Unnless she’s stalking you or something, being weirded out that she actually likes you isn’t terribly productive. You like her, right, or you wouldn’t have asked her out? What’s the alternative, asking out women who are lukewarm about you at best?
Justhink, you’re making my head hurt. Quite frankly, I aced the lEnglish part of my SAT, but perhaps my reading cmprehension isn’t up to par. So please correct me if I have misunderstood: if I understand you correctly, women have no free will, really, which leaves them unable to appreciate qualities in men other than money or a nice butt and wide shoulders. In order to combat this, we are supposed to behave counterintuitively and force ourselves to seduce men who we are not attracted to (because they are, say, sensitive and caring instead of rich and wide-shouldered), because they deserve to have sex, too, and we deserve to have free will?

Apparently, a) I’ve been harboring the delusion all these years that I was having, and thoroughly enjoying, consensual sex; and/or b) I am a man.

EVa Luna, who actually has an ex-boyfriend named Igor (although he didn’t weight 800 pounds)

70

Bad thing about that is that being a Nice Guy often means the girl in question doesn’t sense you’re interested in her because she is/may be used to guys making an unmistakable move.

Not that I would know anything about being frustratingly single…

71

“”""""""“if I understand you correctly, women have no free will, really, which leaves them unable to appreciate qualities in men other than money or a nice butt and wide shoulders. “””"""""

Oh heavens no. Male appearance is actually not that relevant.
There are plenty of wealthy, nice butt, wide-shouldered men out there who fly under the radar by virtue of being logically consistant beings. I think you misunderstand:

“”"""“gossip, critisism, idolism and story telling…”""""""

That is what females select; regardless of money or looks. If females were enticed by something logically consistant; their odds of encountering this individual would be statistically improved upon. The guy you’re talking about is what females scoop up after they’ve had their fun and begin to settle down.
By this time; the male has effectively been forced by selection to enable the more logically corrupt/inconsistant ways of communicating at least to a level detectable by the female radar.
Many nice guys don’t make the sacrifice; and as a result will turn to prostitution or stay single. One thing that must be understood is that not only have these males been sex deprived through their sexual peaks and beyond; they are most likely suffering from severe touch deprivation in general.

You seriously don’t see anything wrong with the picture of Brad Pitt / George Clooney or whoever; walking around town asking females if they wanna fuck and not getting any? You might be enticed by their celebrity images already to not be ‘offended’; but if they weren’t famous, but still wealthy… the game would ensue. The female would play the part of sexual harassment and the players would be more than happy to show her that they agree; thus ostrisizing the individual from the location. The gossips, chuckles and flirts (perspectives) that ensue once this person has left is the basic banal excecution of the game in progress. A really clever male can actually get laid from this situation; by having such an extra-ordinary opportunity to reveal his corrupt logic.

A female does the same thing… a good 50% of the population can walk up to a reasonably attractive male and ask for sex; Boom! It’s on. That’s because males understand this to be logically consistant behavior; by observing how corrupt the ‘personality’ option is.

It becomes slightly more complex once a male has become familiarized with sex by having played the game - some of these might actually give you a “no”. The point however is that females by-in-large will always say no. No acceptions. They need the ‘personality thing’; which to any half funtioning male brain, is the equivilant of rape.

-Justhink

““Eva Luna, who actually has an ex-boyfriend named Igor (although he didn’t weight 800 pounds)””"

I meant to throw in quotes, but I imagine you’d have still remarked on it… clearly I was referring to the adorable hunchback from Frankenstien. (I guess I can throw in a smile, to make you feel like I’m human) s

72

Or they can turn gay! Not that I’ve thought about it … THAT often.

73

Justhink, I suspect I would strongly disagree with you, if I had the patience to figure out what you are trying to say.

74

I am a Nice Guy, stable, steady, fairly reliable (if a little absent-minded and self-absorbed), tall, and not what you would call handsome. I am also shy. I was 28 when a friend encouraged me to step outside of my increasingly lonely comfort zone and ask a woman to go on a date with me - the first real date I had ever had.

I think she was ready to drop me once she had proven to both our satisfactions that the rumours that I was gay were not correct, but I persisted, not quite to the point of stalking her, and we were married within the year.

We have been married for almost 28 years now, and it is a happy marriage, but I think we would be happier if I were not quite such a boring guy, and if I were better at the art of seduction.

Is there a moral to this story? I’m not sure. Perhaps I am trying to say that we all have to choose between a life with tremendous highs and depressing lows, or a life of great contentment but little excitement.

Oh, there are some folks who fall somewhere between. I was lucky enough to find one. Judging by the other posts on this thread, they are pretty rare. Are you willing to wait until you find one? Is “good enough” really good enough? Fortunately for me, my wife was willing to settle for me. I try to keep her from regretting that decision.

75

Eva -
Since you wanted some happy-ending stories, here’s mine.

I was very attracted to difficult guys. Guys with issues. Projects. I think it was because I had my own issues and low-self-esteem, and once those faded the attraction was habitual.
And, in to be completely honest, I thought guys with issues would need me more (and thus love me more) than sane guys. Drama…
Anyway, I became friends with a sane guy - and we eventually got a little intimate. I’m thinking, “nice guy, good friend, why not have a little nookie until I find a soulmate.” Long story short, now we live together, and it’s great.
Oh, I tried to sabotage it plenty of times. It’s hard to learn that stabilty does not equal stagnancy.

Maybe I just got tired of being a drama queen, or trying to fix people up… I think I was ready for my SO. However, I did not see it coming. I thought I’d tease him and leave him for someone exciting - and we just ended up in love. Oops.

Bad boys are exciting right off the bat, but as we all know, they suck. Good guys are pleasant enough at first, but yawn. HOWEVER…they grow on you! Give the good guys a chance!

76

Doubting Robert’s post made me look at my own in a different light.

Obviously, I can’t speak for your wife…but I’m not settling for my SO.
Yes, he seemed too boring at first - but my first impression was way off. He just didn’t blow his whole personality wad right away.
Turns out, there was (is) a lot more to him than I gave credit for… and he brought out wonderful parts of me that I didn’t know I had.

DB, maybe you’re wife felt the same way. It wasn’t thrilling at first, but slowly she realized that life was better with you in it!

77

Vertiginous Annie, that’s nice of you to say that, and I think you may be right.

78

“My mom asks me, ‘Why don’t you date a nice guy?’ I tell her, ‘If I wanted a nice guy, I’d go out with gay men! But most women want a mindfucking codependent asshole!’”

  • Judy Tenuta
79

I think you first guess was it.

Women (generally) are only sexually attracted to men if there is an obvious reason why that relationship would be disastrous. If the guy in question changes to reduce that disastrousness, never mind him.

I have never been the object of women hitting on me, in my entire long life, which, by the way spanned the sexual revolution. Except for two periods. When I was married, half the women with whom I spent significant time expressed sexual attraction, usually in terms direct enough to get through even to me. And the other time? Why, it was while I was under treatment for a disabling psychosis!

Now that I am recovered, and no longer married?

*** Crickets ***

Tris

I am celibate now. It’s not materially different from before, but instead of just not getting any, I am celibate. It has a much more satisfying philosophical feel.

80

I don’t think it’s bad to not like guys who are exactly like you. I think what you just need is someone you can chase a bit. I dated a guy who was just like that. We had an awesome time together, we had a lot in common, but when it came down to it, I was bored with him calling all the time because i was running out of conversation and the mystery was rapidly fading. Then there was a guy I had this on-going flirt thing going on. He was a real ass with me, and he knew it would get a rise out of me, but I knew he wasn’t doing it to be mean-sprited… Sometimes you just need someone who teases you and who gets you riled up a bit. It’s more entertaining that way. Nothing ever actually amounted between me and that guy because i knew it would spoil the fun, but not a day goes by that i don’t think of him and wish I had just pounced on him when i had the chance.