For many people, because imperfect relationships are better than being alone. That’s it, very simply. Especially for co-dependents.
I think this is the healthiest attitude. A lot of people are looking for a relationship to fill a void in their life/happiness, so when they get into one even if it’s not a great one they stay in it because if they took it away they’d have that void again.
I’m very happy day to day, and love myself and my life in general. So for me I can take or leave a relationship. If it’s a good healthy one, awesome, sign me up and let’s all be happy together. If it’s a shitty one, fuck it, I’m outta’ there…I’m still just as happy as I was before the relationship so there’s no fear of loss to keep me in it.
And like I say, bailing on a relationship doesn’t mean cutting them out of your life entirely. It just means not making massive long-term commitments to someone who isn’t your ideal…there’s no reason you can’t still see eachother or even date, just don’t let it get past a certain point if they’re not perfect for you.
- TWTTWN
The superficial part comes in because people are multi-faceted and have a wide range of feelings and emotions. Part of being in a relationship with someone and getting to know them on a deeper level involves letting them show you who they really are - how they think, what makes them happy, what makes them sad, what makes them angry. If you’re only letting your girlfriends express happy thoughts, you’re only getting to know them on a superficial and shallow level. If that’s what floats your boat, that’s fine, but it doesn’t make it a “deep” relationship.
Things can’t be awesome all the time because life isn’t awesome all the time. People do things you don’t like. People get sick or lose their jobs or have relatives that die or have any number of things happen to them that will make them unhappy and/or in need of support from their significant others. If your relationships are solely based on your girlfriend making you happy 100% of the time, you’re destined to jump from relationship to relationship, because no one can be happy happy joy joy all of the time.
It’s more the ‘discard them instantly if they even slightly harsh my cool’ bit.
How many “best friends from long ago” would I have, if at the first sign of annoyance from them, I dumped them as friends?
Same as the best friends thing. Have you ever been friends with someone for many years? It is impossible for someone to be your best buddy, even live in your house, and never be annoying.
Sure, if they are annoying you constantly, no longer making you happy, that’s one thing. But the impression I get from your posts is that they ‘cross the line once’, don’t ‘obey your rules’, and they are outta there.
I can’t imagine treating someone I liked in that manner, let alone someone I purported to love.
I’m glad everything is always great for you.
Us lesser mortals, for whom everything is not always and at all times awesome, prefer to treat others with more consideration and understanding.
Personally, I think it makes better sense than the ‘my GF not awesome all the time? discard her like kleenex’ option, even on a cold-hearted analysis of what is likely to lead to happiness.
But that aside, it simply strikes me that a person who had that attitude is unlikely to have any real friends, let alone any really satisfying romantic life. More like “sycophants” or “peons”. Who else would at all times be devoted to making you happy?
There are people I’ve gone to hell for, and who have gone to hell for me - I can’t imagine having such bonds with folks if I simply discard those who don’t make me happy at the moment.
Agreed. And if how they think isn’t how I picture my perfect girl thinking, or they get sad over stuff I think is trivial, or they get angry abnormally often, then why am I obligated to stay in that relationship? Switch the genders here. Say you’re a chick dating a guy who turns out to be a racist, is never happy, is always depressed and jealous, and gets angry at you all the time for trivial things. Why would you encourage the girl stay in that relationship?
They can express anything they want. I just don’t have to put up with it. If someone is inherently negative, cool, good luck with that. If someone was positive and happy during the honeymoon stage and then becomes negative later on, cool, good luck with that.
If we make an agreement saying “I want to be with you and only you because you have these characteristics” and then you turn out to have been lying/hiding what you’re really like and I find out down the road that you actually have the reverse characteristics, why would I stay?
It’s like the marriage thing where people say sex stops after marriage. If I marry you, and we’re having sex at least once a week, and a year into the marriage we’re down to having sex once a month because you don’t feel like it, well, then I’m out of there. If I marry you, and you’re hot, and you decide to eat 300lbs worth of donuts, well, you’re no longer the girl I married, so I’m out of there. If a girl marries a guy who’s nice, and then he starts beating her, he’s no longer the guy she married, so she should be out of there.
For the record, more of my standards/rules are based around attitude/personality than around superficial qualities like sex/looks.
Sure it is. Ya, bad things happen, but some people deal with them in healthy “look at the silver lining” ways, and some people let those things crush their lives and they wallow in misery for years. If I’m going to get into a serious relationship, it’s going to be with the former not the latter. Why am I a shallow asshole for that? 
- TWTTWN
The road to a flawed relationship is a gradual one. You get together under circumstances that feel good and right, and over time, you accommodate and accept things that only in hindsight you realize you shouldn’t have. I never feared being alone. I was, however, just accustomed to things after 6+ years.
Eventually, my senses of “this isn’t right” and “I can be happier” kicked in, but it took a major kick in the pants-- my health, sanity, finances being in jeopardy-- before I took action.
It’s been two years, and I still feel some anger, resentment, and disappointment toward my ex, and some disappointment in myself for putting up with what I did. I do feel good that I pulled myself out, though.
I stressed repeatedly that it’s not cutting them out of your life entirely, but if the options are “marry and start a family with this person” or “don’t marry and start a family with this person”, choose the latter if they’re not perfect…but otherwise feel free to date them and have a relationship, just don’t make a long term irreversable commitment.
Yes. I’m still in touch daily with friends I’ve known since baby-hood. And co-workers I’ve known for 5+ years. Why? Because they’re quality people and we get along.
Nah, this isn’t true. I’ve lived with friends before and we get along swimmingly. Why do we HAVE to annoy eachother? We’re good friends BECAUSE we get along. Sure we might want to eat different food for supper or have different ideas on how the house should be cleaned or whatever, but these aren’t issues that are a big deal. My line in the sand isn’t over “you clipped your toenails over the living room carpet”, my line in the sand is stuff like “you lied to me about this important issue”.
That’s what I’m saying. Over and over.
Did you get that “cross the line once” impression from the part where I said “if we’ve only just started dating I’ll cut her some slack if she’s a cool chick”, “I don’t have to cut you out of my life entirely”, “bailing on a relationship doesn’t mean cutting them out of your life entirely”, “there’s no reason you can’t still see eachother or even date, just don’t let it get past a certain point if they’re not perfect for you”, “They don’t have to be ONLY focused on it, but they should have it as a high priority.”?
I’m not saying what you seem to think I’m saying.
I have a handful of 20+ year friendships, plus a bunch of 10, 5, 1, etc. year friendships. I’ve had two serious long term relationships and am happily in a 7 month relationship with a fantastic girl right now. We don’t fight and neither of us brings any drama to the table. We’re happy together 24/7 and people think we’ve only been together for a month when they meet us because they can’t wrap their heads around us still being affectionate and happy. This girl was very difficult to find and I had to reject a bunch of unsatisfying relationships to find her, but the search was worth it.
Wow, we went from “not making me unhappy” to “sycophants devoted at all times to making me happy”. Really?
My friendships and romantic life are great. We even disagree on things, holy shit!! My friends have actually told me I’m WRONG before, OMG!!!11111 These aren’t epic things and they aren’t worth fussing over. Having standards is about not accepting legitimately bad behavior in your relationships. Quit exaggerating so much, jeeze.
- TWTTWN
Why should “not cutting them out of your life completely” make any difference one way or another in this context?
That is not, however, what your “line” is with your GF -according to you, it is something like ‘her expressing anoyance over me not showing up to dinner because I have more important stuff to do’.
Only if by “constantly making you unhappy” something like ‘being annoying over me not showing up to dinner’ is meant.
I’m getting it from your ‘I enforce my rules’ thread. The particular ‘rule’ cited seemed of astonishing triviality.
Now, where-ever could I have gotten that idea?
What I’m hearing here is ‘she follows my rules with a smile or she is history’. So you managed to find someone who will, at least so far, obey you. When that ceases to be true, you’ll dump her.
Excuse me if I sound cynical, but I’m inclined to take self-descriptions like “We’re happy together 24/7” with a slight grain of salt – much like your earlier claim that everying is always awesome. To my mind, not knowing you from Adam, it is equally likely she’s just telling you what you want to hear, because if she doesn’t, you’ll discard her.
TWTTWN, no one person is perfect. Most importantly, no one person is perfect *for you, *either.
It genuinely seems like you’ve never successfully advanced past the honeymoon stage of a relationship, that you just cut and run if things aren’t “perfect.” What happens if you end up married to this girl and she develops post-partum depression? If she has triplets and gains 50 pounds and loose skin and scarring that she can never lose? Is marriage the point at which you dedicate yourself to not dumping a girl instantaneously for being less than your ideal? Do you seriously not understand that people change over time? If everyone dropped a relationship like a hot pocket when their partner changed, less than 5% of couples would stay married.
7 months is not enough time to have learned that your current lady is not perfect for you. In a couple of years you might have a good idea. If you ever contemplate marriage, may I suggest a very, very long engagement? It’s a lot harder to bail out on someone when you’re living together and financially entangled.
This. It’s often very hard to see clearly from the inside of a situation. It’s easy to lose sight of what “happy” actually means. This holds true for things beyond romantic partnerships - family situations, even jobs can work like this. “Been down so long you don’t know what up is.”
I like to think I’ve learned a lot more about what ‘happy’ means since my divorce, but I’d be foolish to think I could never caught up in a similar situation again. I certainly hope not and I do try to work on keeping aware of my needs and boundaries, but I’m certainly not perfect in this regard.
People are afraid of change. If you’re living with someone you’ve been with for 4 years, for example, breaking up with them means you’d have to figure out a new living situation AND seriously hurt someone you have a long history with and probably still have a lot of affection for. The living situation part might sound trivial, but if you’re living in a big city and living from paycheck to paycheck, it’s anything but. And it’s hard to work up the courage to deal such a blow to someone you still care for.
Sure, you could argue that things would be better in the long run so they should just suck it up and deal. But the first step is the hardest.
My work pays my bills and is important to me and she knows this. She also knows that we’ll see eachother again in a few days so it’s not a big deal. She also knows that I don’t like drama, guilt-trips, nagging, etc. These things are independant of who she is as a person. If she were Angelina Jolie my priorities would still be the same. So my line there is if I have work to do, it comes before us hanging out on a random evening, and I don’t want to be made to feel guilty for this. So if she guilt-trips me on it, I’ll warn her, and if she does it again I’ll warn her again, but if she keeps doing it then fuck it, our relationship is now adding stress to my life instead of happiness and I no longer want to be a part of it.
What would the alternative be? Stay with her and pretend the nagging isn’t annoying until years down the road I’m miserable because I feel guilty when I’m working for not being with her and feel guilty for being with her instead of doing my work? Sign me up for THAT happiness-fest!
Better to say “Look, this doesn’t fly with me. If it’s an issue for you, cool, we shouldn’t be together, good luck on your search I wish you the best.” and find someone who’s okay with it.
If she does it repeatedly, then yes, it’s constantly making me unhappy. I don’t see where this throws you.
To you. To me, my business is important. If my bubblegum wrapper collection was important to me and my rule was that I dedicate an hour a night to working on it, and a girl had issues with that, then fuck it, we’re not going to get along.
She has her rules, I have my rules, and our rules work well together. That’s why we don’t fight and we’re happy all the time. She understands my work is important, so she doesn’t give me drama over having to work instead of hanging out. She’s not sitting there weeping into her pillow terrified to let me know that she needs me. She’s doing her laundry because now her evening is free and she’s been meaning to get to doing her laundry for a couple days now.
But then, I chose her as a girlfriend specifically because our rules work well together. Versus the girl who dates a guy and spends all her time trying to change him and then bitches about him to her girlfriends when she realizes she can’t change him, or the guy who dates a girl and spends all his time trying to change her and cheats on her when he realizes he can’t change her.
You seem to be saying that no matter how bad you two are for eachother, you should just find a way to cram the square peg into the round hole. I’m saying why not just find a round peg? There are billions of round pegs out there.
Unless you LIKE drama, which some people do.
Why do you put it in terms like “obey”? How about “someone who will respect your boundaries and priorities”? Because she has her own boundaries and priorities and I respect those. I’m not "obey"ing her out of fear of her ditching me. I’m an adult and she’s an adult and I respect her and like to make her happy, the same way she respects me and likes to make me happy.
She likes having a clean apartment, so if I’m there and there’s a mess, I’ll clean it up for her. It’s not out of her controlling me by fear like some evil puppetmaster you’re trying to paint me as. It’s out of respect for her boundaries and rules. If I left a mess there every time I was over, that would be violating her boundaries and I’d be making her unhappy and she’d be perfectly justified in ditching me.
Yes. I don’t see why you have a problem with this. If you start dating someone who seems nice and after a year they start abusing you, would you stay with them? You weren’t looking for someone who was abusive and you didn’t think they were, but now things have changed. Why would you stay in that relationship?
You’re free to project whatever you want onto my life, I can’t control that. My life is awesome, I have no complaints, and I’m happy day to day. You don’t have to think that’s possible, you can stew in misery if that makes you feel better, but the world is really a fun happy awesome place if you take off those bleak shades.
They don’t have to be perfect people. They just have to be perfect for me. Maybe they hate kids. If I hate kids, that’s cool, we’ll work well. Maybe they’re super depressed people. If I’m someone who likes super depressed people, that’s cool, we’ll work well. Maybe she’s fat, if I’m not someone who cares about her weight, that’s cool, we’ll work well.
Ya and you’re not supposed to like your work, and you’re not supposed to be good at something your first try, and you’re not supposed to blah blah blah And yet, these things are entirely possible…just because you haven’t done them doesn’t mean they aren’t. That’s a very limiting mindset.
For starters I wouldn’t marry her because I know marriage isn’t something that works for me. And if I did marry her, it would be an open marriage. If she developed post-partum depression, that would be rough and I’d try to help her deal with it but if it got to be too much then I’d bail. Life is short, I wish her luck and I can help her as a friend, but I don’t want to spend 40 years of it miserable alongside her as a spouse.
I’ll work out with her to encourage her to lose the weight and tighten up the loose skin. If she’s too lazy to work out, that’s what the open marriage is for.
There’s that instantaneously thing again. I’ve even quoted myself saying it’s not instantaneous. She gets a few chances but if she doesn’t get with it, then no I’m not going to stick around. If I gained 400lbs and decided I wanted to eat chicken wings all day and let my ear hair grow out, I wouldn’t blame her for leaving me either.
Some people change for the better. Those are the people I want in my life.
There’s the dropped like a hot pocket again. Like I say, I give chances, but it’s an adamant rule under those chances. If you tell your kid you’ll turn this car right back around and go home, you should be prepared to do that if they keep acting up.
Isn’t the divorce rate like 50%? And of the ones that stay together I imagine a fuckton of them are full of infidelity, misery, lies, etc. Hell there are a bunch of threads about that stuff on this board alone.
Why is someone else better than me because they stay miserable in a loveless marriage while I choose to cut both our ties and let us both get on with our lives to find people that make us happier?
That’s why I don’t become financially entangled with someone. There’s nothing you get out of marriage that you can’t get out of being in a solid long term relationship.
- TWTTWN
Sometimes you can compare it to poker… you get heavily invested and it’s really hard to back off when you’re almost all-in.
You’ve shared your emotions, time, money, effort; you got to know the person, their history, their quirks, their family, etc… it’s hard to make the final decision to discard all of that.
Sometimes it feels easier to endure a ton of complications and misery in hopes that it will be “just like it used to be” one day.
People do all sorts of stuff to avoid all the emotional chaos of a break-up but lots of the time they’re just postponing the inevitable.
Reasons vary, of course. Complacency, fear, logistics, self-esteem issues…
In my case, it was because “content” was all I thought was possible. Not “all I deserved” or “all I was capable of,” but literally the only thing a long term relationship between two people *could *be. And so why would I leave my husband for another relationship which would also be work, would also have its ups-and-downs, would, at the best, be “content”.
Then I met a man who makes me “happy”, not just content, and it’s, to steal a phrase from Disney, “a whole new world.” But I had not meant him and discovered what a real loving, supportive, happy relationship is like, I’d probably still be married and “content”.
Of course, with the benefit of hindsight, I came to realize that I wasn’t content in my marriage. I wasn’t even miserable. I was numb and apathetic. I spent literally every waking hour on the Dope to enhance my numbness with my real life (which is why I took a hiatus) and shut my husband out. I walked on eggshells to try to avoid making his temper flare, and it didn’t really work, although it minimized the flare-ups. When he’d flare, I’d literally walk away rather than defend myself, because it just didn’t seem worth the effort. He was unable to please, so why bother… Still, I thought of myself as content while I was in it, because I wasn’t unhappy, I was just dealing.
You say this like it is an inevitable dichotomy - like someone being once annoyed for a missed date leads, unless they are threatened, to a lifetime of subsurvience to their manipulations.
There is an excluded middle here.
Because it makes you sound like you are glorifying being a fair-weather friend - good only for exactly how long the other person is busy making you happy.
No-one is saying you have to wallow in misery or put up with a relationship that is disfunctional, but your insistence that life has to be a series of always-awesome honeymoon relationships bounded by your “rules” or you’ll take your ball and go home sounds shallow in the extreme. How can there be any depth of feeling or compassion where there is no commitment at all?
Once again with the extreme dichotomy.
I have no doubt that such a relationship as you describe works well - for you. I do doubt that it is as egalitarian as you are (now) claiming.
I’m not saying that at all.
What I am saying, is that I find it difficult to imagine a relationship that is (a) egalitarian, (b) in which either partner leaves at the signs of any conflict or unhappiness (c) that lasts any length of time or has any real passion, committment, or depth of feeling to it.
Again, extreme dichotomy. There is lots of room between ‘my rules or the highway’ and ‘putting up with abuse’.
I’m not “projecting”, I’m simply dubious. The panglossian version of a relationship (let alone life) that is “always awesome” and never, not once, not ever has any arguments, rough spots, or unhappiness simply is not realistic - it sounds like something invented by a self-help-through-positive-thinking writer.
The good outweighs the bad I guess. We love each other but we both have addiction baggage and trouble with trust and I have a lot of anxiety issues he has to deal with. I have to live with his immigration status, his weird cultural quirks and the sometimes overwhelming machismo. Ah but I love him so and I do feel his love for me. And he’s a wonderful father. But we have had some real whopper fights. Not so many in the past year or so though. I think we’ve settled into our family life so much it’s comfortable now. See if we’d given up earlier during all the bad times we never would have reached this place where we’re both happy and content.
I’m just going to set those on their own to let them speak for themselves.
Post-partum depression doesn’t last for 40 years, T. It’s more likely to last from a month to a year. Is that too long or is it still bail-city?
You have a bizarrely unrealistic view of humanity.
I’m stunned into an awed silence whenever I hear about a marriage breaking up because the spouse is “bored, unhappy, feels he/she can do better”. (Maybe there’s hidden abuse, addiction, adultry, maybe their lives are a living hell. Not talking about that, of course, but I’m speaking of a spouse who is irritated with the other’s habits/flooded with ennui, not gettin’ enough/squabbles too much, just ‘not happy’. An imperfect relationship.) At every age, from 21 to 70. No kids or a brood of six. Rich, poor, in-between, they get fed up, get a divorce, and are happy and confident that there IS that Special Someone Out There that’s going to make them Happy. I say, good luck with that! Yes, a supermodel, People’s Magazine world’s sexiest man, a hot young chick, a millionaire is going to come into their lives and sweep them off their feet, and carry them off to live happily ever after! Such confidence, lol! I say, better the devil you know than the devil you don’t. But then, your tipping point may be different from mine. I have the patience of a saint. I can put up with a LOT after a lifetime of putting up with a lot. And no one person has, is presently, or in the future is going to ‘make me happy’ to any real degree. David Beckham is not going to divorce that thing he’s married to for me, and if he does and we hook up, I would be just as irritated by his tiny faults as by an ordinary human… Depends on whether the good outweighs the bad.
You clarify this a bit later, but the phrasing here really rubs me the wrong way.
You can’t be happy *all *the time or you’re not actually experiencing life. The sweeter parts of life are all the sweeter because you’ve lived through the rougher parts and learned from them.
This is best summed up by Butters (from South Park…sheepish): “Well yeah, and I’m sad, but at the same time I’m really happy that something could make me feel that sad. It’s like, it makes me feel alive, you know? It makes me feel human. And the only way I could feel this sad now is if I felt somethin’ really good before. So I have to take the bad with the good, so I guess what I’m feelin’ is like a, beautiful sadness. I guess that sounds stupid.”
I agree with this and think you make some very good points.
Again, a very good point.