Well, I think sometimes it’s a matter of a first date being because all the ingredients are right, so you think “Hey, there could be a spark there. I need to get to know that person better and find out.” And then you get to know the person a little better… and find out that, no, there won’t be any spark.
Like a movie trailer. You go to the movie based on the trailer because it seemed to be your type of flick and looks great. But then when you go and see it, the movie didn’t meet your expectations. It wasn’t necessarily a bad movie, it just wasn’t quite what you expected from the trailer you saw.
I’m sorry that I took your post badly. Dating in general is a sore subject with me (obvious, no?) because I still don’t get it and I’m starting to think maybe I just never will. Also, I really haven’t been out with that many great guys. It’s been pretty much duds all down the line. I’m sure they thought I was a dud, too, though, to be fair. I understand what you’re talking about, I think, but what I’m trying to say is that I haven’t had that experience. It’s not necessarily a matter of fault; what bothers them about me might not bother anyone else. I’m notoriously and weirdly picky anyway.
Heh. You can’t please everyone no matter what you do, as we see abundant evidence of here in this thread, and in the real world. I shall add my own little story: several geologic eras in the past, when I entered college, I was having a good time going to parties, meeting guys, getting asked out, and desultorily dating. As a result I often went out 2-3 times on the weekend on first/second/third dates.
After a few weeks of this, I realized that there was one guy in particular I liked (call him Bob), so I didn’t feel comfortable continuing to date the other guy (call him Joe) who at that point clearly was interested in me. Joe and I had had 2-3 dates already. So the next time Joe called, I told him, very sympathetically, “look, I think you are a really nice guy, but I don’t want you to waste your time with me, I am pretty sure I am falling for someone else.”
Bob, who I told all this, was FURIOUS at me and said I had unnecessarily hurt Joe’s feelings – I just should have stopped taking Joe’s calls/been too busy to go out, and eventually Joe would have gotten the idea. Bob felt that letting the rejected suitor gradually come to the realization that things weren’t going to work, rather than telling him straight out, however nicely, was kinder.
Friends proceeded to weigh in on both sides, but the vast majority feel that the way I handled it was kinder, and I can’t say I’ve ever changed my mind in all the intervening years.
I don’t think a detailed explanation of “why I don’t want to go out with you anymore” is usually called after just a few dates, for because there probably is no particular thing to dislike. (Besides, I bet a LOT of times th explanation is exactly the same scenario I’ve just recounted: the person in question has met someone else and the chemistry was there.) But yeah, I do think people owe others the courtesy of not leaving them hanging, only to feel stupid when, after 3 unreturned calls/unanswered e-mails/excuses about being busy, they figure it out.
FWIW, Carol, I think you did the right thing. You didn’t even tell him something negative, it was just bad timing for poor old Joe. Was Joe overly upset?
how about the “two-days after” ™ follow-up call? Isn’t that SOP for dating? At least* I *thought it was. Isn’t this where you thank the person for the date and possibly line up #2? Wouldn’t this be the place to say, “you know, I had a great time and all but…”??
Someone in this thread mentioned something about internet dating that I agree with (ok, maybe I imagined this, sorry no cite)
When you meet someone you met from an internet dating site, I think there’s an implied level of desperation going on. I think everyone that meets people from these sites have a slight amount of desperation, otherwise why not meet in person? If its because of poor social skills, it is going to become fairly obvious when you meet the idividual.
If you go out with someone you previously knew, both of you probably have seen each other before. If both are willing to go out on a date, I think that means you’ve already crossed that hurdle.
In a way, not calling back from an internet date would be easier, I guess, since you don’t know the person previously. I would imagine if it were someone you met in person (like a coworker or something) coming up with a reason might be a little more justified.
In this day and age, I don’t think that there is any more desperation with on-line daters versus off-line daters. Of all of my on-line dates, I can only think of one who seemed desperate. Internet dating is just a lot more convenient. Any stigma associated with on-line meeting is long gone.
Not necessarily. It’s really nice for at least one of the parties involved to have their own pad, or at least their own room, so that the couple can get some privacy when they want it. Conversely, it’s bad enough for one half of a couple to live at home, with all the trappings of same, and it’s even worse when both do.
As for particular peoples’ reasons, different people are turned on/off by different things. For example, I once dated a girl who told me a year after we broke up, that she dumped me because of the shape my mouth goes into when I smile. I don’t remember the exact details, but it was some bit of total minutia that she happens to be neurotic about. Apparently I was interesting enough for her to ignore it for a few weeks, but eventually she realized that a dealbreaker was a dealbreaker. Most people really like my smile, so obviously the whole thing would have no bearing on my other relationships. I suspect a lot of no-calls are centered around some tiny little dealbreaker like that, which varies by person.
Anyway, what do you want that person to say? It’s hard to give constructive feedback to someone you don’t know that well; and if you try, you’re more likely just to open a door to communication that you didn’t want to. I mean, look at it from the girl’s point of view; how does she know you won’t turn into a creepy stalker and demand more and more useful answers? And once you have her on the phone, you can do all kinds of things to manipulate her back into where you want her; what if you experienced (or simulated) a nervous breakdown because that rejection was the straw that broke the camel’s back? Or you got all depressed and philosophical? She’d be stuck in your life. Better not to take the risk. She doesn’t owe you anything, anyway. This idea that men should demand answers, and that women owe it to every single dud they meet to help them improve their game–well, let me put it this way: How many men do you think the average American woman meets who turn her off? If she had to bend over backwards to let each one down gently and explain exactly what they did wrong:
(1) Most of them would probably say “Oh, I see–well I can fix that. C’mon, give me a second chance!” Which kills the point.
(2) She’d probably be depressed all the time from having to hand out all those personal, detailed rejections.
(3) She wouldn’t have time to do anything else with her life.
What, you think that if they didn’t like going out with you, they’re going to like explaining their every move to you? What would she gain from that? And what would you gain from it, even? Some sense of superiority because you got her to feel uncomfortable over the phone? People who tell you they’re too busy to talk to you aren’t playing games, they’re telling you they don’t have time for you, and you’re just going to have to deal with it. That’s adult life. They don’t all have time for your interrogation, any more than you have time for their “games”.
What about the guys that are total creeps? Why give them a chance to go into creep-mode?
The stalker wouldn’t have much to go on, presumably. How would he get through to her if she didn’t answer his calls? Cutting the whole thing off cleanly is probably the safest route IMO because it’s more likely that a potential stalker will just get frustrated and give up. If not, you have a phone bill full of evidence for the restraining order.
I’m sorry to say the whole thing speaks volumes about you. Have you ever had someone pull that shit on you (signing on as a different screenname to see if they were blocked, and then either endlessly pestering you or throwing in a pot shot before cowardly blocking you back)? I have, and the impression it left me with was that the other person was immature and not worth my time. And it’s not fun (to put it mildly) to be stalked–that is stalking, BTW.
You sound pretty bitter. Maybe you should work on your problems instead of just blaming everyone else. I mean, the entire post I just quoted was about blaming someone else for everything under the sun: she didn’t get your supposedly high-minded humor because she was dumb, she didn’t respond well to your “pushing buttons” because she was shallow, she wouldn’t pile on her friend’s date because she was a hypocrite, she stopped talking because she was dull. Then, on AIM (or whatever), she wouldn’t discuss anything other than “pointless banter” with you because she was “conversationally inept”, and she didn’t tell you she was blocking you because she was a “liar”.
I read your story the other way around. She didn’t get your humor because it’s not her style; she didn’t respond well to your “pushing buttons” because it showed you were volatile and that she had to walk on eggshells with you; she wouldn’t pile on her friend’s date because you were just trying to get a rise out of her, instead of delivering biting commentary; she then stopped talking because she didn’t know what to say after you blatantly turned the conversation around to try to make her feel stupid. (And what if you had gotten an emotional reaction out of her? Would you have laughed at her for being so weak? Are you starting to see why this woman didn’t want to go out with you?) On AIM, she wouldn’t discuss anything other than “pointless banter” because you had demonstrated your ability to turn the lightest of topics into mean-spirited button-pushing; she didn’t tell you she was blocking you because you were creepy and insulting and she didn’t want to talk to you ever again.
IANAP, but to put it mildly, your response to all of this does not look healthy. And bitterness, self-loathing and a sense of superiority are not turn-ons, BTW.
Every guy is a potential stalker. It only takes one stalker/rapist/etc. to ruin someone’s life. Better to weed out a lot of sane but uninteresting dudes than to let in the one that might turn your life upside down.
What exactly do you say? And how do you think it makes them feel?
No, the inability to be honest about why is based on their consideration for your feelings. You’re lucky to get that much from someone who’s not into you. What’s really childish, though, is to obsess over such a mundane thing as not getting a call back after the first date, and let it rule your life.
You go around spouting off chauvinist crap like that, and you wonder why women don’t want to commit themselves to you? Moreover, if you like men so much, why don’t you just date them instead? Apparently they’re the height of reason and accountability, as you’ve aptly demonstrated.
Why does it matter? You’re not her dad, you’re not her brother, you’re not even her coworker–you’re just some dude. You haven’t earned a subscription to her news feed just becuase you bought her a movie ticket and a bag of popcorn. And think about what you’re proposing–would you really want to call back every single person you ever met and tell them you didn’t like them? That wouldn’t accomplish much except hurting their feelings and making you feel awful, and potentially making them cling harder–which in turn can make your life a living hell.
It is. The entire post is condescending, accusatory, and basically carries the tone of a scorned 5-year-old boy. Here’s another clue: There’s a reason that only one person in this thread has been accused of misogyny, and there’s a reason this isn’t the first time. And you need to start thinking about who to blame for that. There’s no conspiracy against you–you’re just a misogynist. You claim to be able to work on your faults and listen to logic and reasoning, but all you’re doing here is shooting down everyone’s attempt to make you understand why you’re not getting those second dates. Do you see why this isn’t working out for you?
Where did this come from? That wasn’t what we were talking about here. Why did you change the subject?
Well, the fact that you have had a stalker certainly changes things. I have recent experience with this, too–at the end of 2006 I spent some time with this one girl, and we hit it off pretty well, went on a couple dates, and eventually we went back to my place and had sex. It was a lot better for her than it was for me, but I decided to give her another couple of chances. After a few more times I thoroughly loathed the prospect of getting into bed with her, because it turned out we just weren’t sexually compatible and every time we did it I wanted to leave the room as soon as possible–I’d always thought guys who felt that way were assholes, and I didn’t like the fact that I started to see it in myself. It wasn’t like there was some specific technique she was using that wasn’t getting me off–sex with her was just always going to be a dreadful experience for me. I tried to let her down gently and she demanded reasons. I tried to give her constructive criticism and she turned hurt and bitter; she screamed at me and insulted me. I tried every method in the book to get her to understand that it wasn’t going to work and why, but she kept showing up at my home, embarrassing me at my work, and tracking me down at school. Finally I got sick of it and I just told her never to call me, text me, come to my work, find me at school, come to my place, etc. again. Then her feelings were hurt and I had to soothe her ego, and then she was screaming and insulting me again, and then she was clinging again. Wash, rinse, repeat. Finally I just had to completely ignore her for her to give up and go away.
IOW, being gentle and explaining things only enabled her to justify her actions to herself. It’s simple Pavlovian psychology: once you associate positive reactions to your relationships with people, you have to break those associations before you move on; every time you get positive affirmation (ego stroke, compliance to questioning, call back, etc.) the association shoots back up and it becomes even harder to break it than before. You just have to let it go and the other party will get over it a lot quicker and more healthily.
Wanting to know why someone isn’t interested in you (or interested anymore) is like when you’re cleaning out the fridge and you happen upon something that’s been in there a while. You know it’s going to be bad, but you have to open it anyway.
I still trying to figure out why she (the generic she, that is) won’t even bother showing up on a previously agreed date, or otherwise send word as to her absence or lack of interest more than half the time. Not getting a call back would be a step up from sitting in the restaurant alone.
I have to admit not being at all clear on the “spark” thing, either, other than that I don’t seem to do it for women, and in the handful of dates I’ve been on in the last few years, none have done it for me…especially the lawyer who wouldn’t stop talking about “The Ali G Show”. (I’m guilty of my own pedantry with regard to thermodynamics and public key encryption, but at least I try to curtail it and find some common topic of interest.)
Dating sucks. And I’ve said it before: [post=5737844]people who enjoy dating are genetic freaks[/post].
Eh. I enjoy(ed)* it for the most part. The stalker wasn’t any fun but the rest of it wasn’t so bad. Dating is a numbers game. Unless you are lucky, you’ll have to meet a lot of dates before you find one where the feelings are mutually very positive. It’s not like I would get all excited and look forward to each one. I thought of it more like a project with the end goal of finding someone for an exclusive relationship or, if not, getting laid. If you want either of those two things, you’re going to have to date and making either goal is totally worth the process of getting there. Suck it up.
*I recently met someone and we just decided to be exclusive.
Said by someone who (a) clearly doesn’t have any problems getting dates, and (b) doesn’t get regularly tossed or stood up pursuant to the former. A “numbers game” assumes that you have many cards to play with, which, despite your personal experience, is not true for everyone.
Nothing is true for everyone. Well, I’ve never been stood up that I can recall and I’m not sure what you mean by “tossed.” Plenty of women stopped the email conversation once they saw my pictures. A few turned down my request for a second date. It happens. I think that it may be more of an issue of me having a thicker skin and a sense of humor about the whole thing.
I’ll grant you that it might be easier for me but regardless of how easy it is, you still should try to be persistent. Even if the numbers come at a slower rate, it’s still a numbers game.
