Why don't 'nice guys' get laid?

Uh huh. Sure. A friend of mine, a sort of nice guy, dated this lovely girl and he had something I don’t – the gift of gab. She dumped him a couple of months later and it was over a year after that he found out why. He didn’t TRY anything on her. No crude attempts at seduction, no ‘accidental’ breast touching, no groping in the car and, once, when she was real drunk and he was pie-eyed, they slept together. (Well, in the same apartment. She slept in her room and he crashed on the couch.)

Don’t count on your friends to spread the worked about how cool you are. They’ll most likely dig up dogs for you to meet. (A friend of mine tired to set me up with this ‘real nice girl.’ She was pleasant, played the guitar, my age, single, liked the things I liked to do, no over weight, not too skinny and had a great personality. That last one is the give away that you’re not going to like what you meet. She was all of that, but she LOOKED like a truck driver!!)

I was painfully shy in school, so I did not date, but, by all means, do so. Get experience. I HATED rejection, so much that in high school, I was afraid to ask out good looking girls. (Recently I found out that a girl from high school had a crush on me. I looked her up in my annual and she was rather plain, but not bad. She contacted me a short time back and I finally got a picture E-mailed from her and discovered that she looks like TUGBOAT ANNIE today. I cut the correspondence.)

You never know though. I knew this absolutely cute, little woman in school, who remained shy and petite, and seemed like she wouldn’t say shit if she had a mouthful. I never asked her out. She married one of the school important guys. He treated her like shit, and, when she got into an accident, became mentally disabled but not an idiot or helpless, he divorced her before she got better.

He was remarried within a year. Thugs seem to attract women. I knew another girl, BIG KNOCKERS, and pretty. She married a local thug, and 10 years later, I spotted what was left of her in a store. She still has big knockers, but she’s divorced and her face tells of how many times he beat the shit out of her. A lot of the girls I wanted to ask out in high school but never did, married ‘thugs’. Many are divorced now and some have married other ‘thugs’.

I don’t think girls want nice guys. They want exciting ones, who live on the edge, who they might change, who don’t pick up after themselves, work on heavy machinery, come home all stinky and dirty and hope on top of them smelling and reeking of ‘manly’ scent.

Like I said before. I treated a girl like shit once and she kept coming back for more but I couldn’t keep up the facade, and returned to my real self, and she split when I turned out to be nice. I think if a girl came up to me and started crying all over my shoulder about how mean her guy is, how misunderstood she is, and how there are just no more nice guys in the world, I’d run like hell, screaming in frustration into the night.

A point here. If they are cute, and pretty and nice looking and over 25 and still have no steady guy and wondering why? RUN!! Nine times out of ten it is because Missy sweet and nice and cute and delicate looking has the affections of a senior drill sergeant, the empathy of a wall, and the caring ability of a stone. Especially if you start getting into a little argument with them, and they cut you off, absolutely unwilling to discuss anything which might criticize their own self image. No matter how sexy they look, or how cute and soft and huggable and you just want to protect them from everyone and everything and your heart just MELTS when you look into their big, gentle eyes — RUN!

If you date them and get sick, they’ll not even cook you chicken soup! Nice guys do not stand a chance with them at all. (Well, maybe as a friend or a casual fuck, but don’t expect empathy or sympathy.)


Mark
“Think of it as Evolution in action.”

I’m a nice guy. Please, no wise cracks…

When I was in HS, I was the friend who listened as the girl told me about how shitty their boyfriend treated them. As I listened, supportive, I couldn’t help but wonder why anyone would treat a girl like that, because I would have treated them like gold.

Their boyfriends generally were athletic, had a nice car, and parents with some cash to give them.

Now, I’m 30. Though the only thing I did aesthetically was grow my hair, I find myself somehow being an attraction of girls. And when I have someone I care about, I treat them like Gold.

My current girlfriend lists my intelligence, wit, spirituality and gentleness as things she finds most attractive in me.

Translation: Be nice. The meek shall inherit the earth, after all. Or at least the babes, when they get sick of assholes…


Yer pal,
Satan

“BIG KNOCKERS”…

Yes, but is it a solid Oak door. That always turns me on, a house with solid wood doors. Frankly a woman that will only buy hollow core doors really turns me off. I mean puuleease baby spring for the solids. Besides you can’t hang big knockers on those hollow cores, you’ll end up with a screw loose. Oh and don’t even get me started on cabinets, frankly the last woman I dated hated the way my cabinets were hung. She just walked out. I ran after her screaming about my padded headboard but she cried back, if they’re not hung straight you have no business even talking about your headboard.

This all of the sudden reminded me of the scene in “Young Frankenstien” where Madeline Kahn arrives at the front door…

Let us take the bags…

“You take the blonde, I’ll take the one in the turban”

I’m a Niceguy, and I get a fairly good amount of sex. In fact, I’m considered the slut of my little group of friends. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I attract other Niceguys. I don’t know if this would work at all if I were straight.

If you have to ask, chances are you will not get laid until after you graduate…at least not with the type of girl you’d be attracted to.

A better question to ask is,… Who are the guys who are most likely to get laid in high school these days?

As a general proposition, they fell into one of the following 5 catagories:

  1. Good looking jocks;
  2. James Dean bad boy, rebel types;
  3. Early bloomers who physically peak before everyone else(they also fizzle out sooner);
  4. Members of the “Popular Clique” who come from the “right” social classes in the community;
  5. Guys who happened to know the local “nympho”, who will bed down with anyone who shows any interest in her;
  6. Drug dealers; and,
  7. Guys who pay their dues by being in long term relationships.

If you don’t fall in any of the above catagories, and obviously you don’t since you are seeking help in this area, then you likely fall into one of the following 5 catagories of guys who are least likely to get laid:

  1. Guys who are Nerds (aka future billionaires Computer Company CEOs);
  2. Guys who put the U in Ugly;
    3 Guys have very poor personal hygiene;
  3. Guys who make the Scholarship Club; and
  4. Guys who lack confidence;

If you fall into this second group, quit trying to put a square peg in a round hole, literally and figuratively. It’ll happen soon enough. As someone already said, College is a whole new ballgame.

If you have to ask, chances are you will not get laid until after you graduate…at least not with the type of girl you’d be attracted to.

A better question to ask is,… Who are the guys who are most likely to get laid in high school these days?

As a general proposition, they fell into one of the following 5 catagories:

  1. Good looking jocks;
  2. James Dean bad boy, rebel types;
  3. Early bloomers who physically peak before everyone else(they also fizzle out sooner);
  4. Members of the “Popular Clique” who come from the “right” social classes in the community;
  5. Guys who happened to know the local “nympho”, who will bed down with anyone who shows any interest in her;
  6. Drug dealers; and,
  7. Guys who pay their dues by being in long term relationships.

If you don’t fall in any of the above catagories, and obviously you don’t since you are seeking help in this area, then you likely fall into one of the following 5 catagories of guys who are least likely to get laid:

  1. Guys who are Nerds (aka future billionaires Computer Company CEOs);
  2. Guys who put the U in Ugly;
    3 Guys have very poor personal hygiene;
  3. Guys who make the Scholarship Club; and
  4. Guys who lack confidence;

If you fall into this second group, quit trying to put a square peg in a round hole, literally and figuratively. It’ll happen soon enough. As someone already said, College is a whole new ballgame.


terggie

Do you want to fuck or have a relationship? If you want to fuck then by all means, be the biggest asshole you can. Date rape. Use illegal and life threatening drugs just so you can basically use a woman’s body to masturbate in. Yes, it will work. Go after girls. If you are 17 to 18 start hanging around girls who are 13 to 14… they are easily manipulated and will accept almost everything you say at face value. Read everything Mark has EVER posted and take it to heart. You’ll get laid. And probably get a social disease as well. Or, as in Mark’s case, BE a social disease.

If you want something far more satisfying, be a friend first. No, don’t listen to women whine about the shitty boyfriends; remind them that it doesn’t have to be like that. I know it doesn’t. One of my greatest and deepest loves came at the tender age of 16. He was my friend first and then, well, love hit. We had a wonderful sex life. And yes, my parents were WELL aware of this.

But if all you are looking for is a quick fuck with a pretty girl with big knockers than by all means, let Mark be your guide. IMHO I’d take what Satan had to say a hell of a lot more seriously.

Best!
Byz

Mark said:
A point here. If they are cute, and pretty and nice looking and over 25 and still have no steady guy and wondering why? RUN!! Nine times out of ten it is because Missy sweet and nice and cute and delicate looking has the affections of a senior drill sergeant, the empathy of a wall, and the caring ability of a stone."

Mark, Mark, Mark–aren’t you such a sweetie!
Frankly, as one of the “nice girls” who ended up marrying a jerk–let me tell you why: The guy asked. He was the ONLY guy who asked. He paid me attention. He took the iniative. He didn’t wait on me to attack him. In the past few years, I have had several male friends from college tell me they had been interested in me. Nice guys I would have LOVED to have dated. But, they didn’t ASK and I wasn’t going to make myself look like some man-chasing slut and go after them since I got absolutely no impression they were interested in me as a girl!

If you want to date–ASK, ASK, ASK and stop putting so much pressure on dating. A date is just a date–it’s not a prenuptual contract or necessarily a prelude to doing the wild and wooley. A date is having fun with someone who MIGHT become a person to get serious. If you’re scared of scaring off your friends, then tell them–I’d like to go out with you but if you say no, I don’t want it to change our friendship. Women can handle this. Believe me, we can handle it!
Good luck!

I just have a couple of things to say to you, Mark, and unlike what I may have done previously, I’m going to try to be nice. See, I feel for you, in some strange way, and I want to point out something sort of inconsistent.

This is a wonderful thing to want, the emphasis on the material aside. You’re on the right track with this one. But:

I hear you say all these things, and I have one question for you (well, actually, I have several, but one overrides). How on earth do you expect to EVER find a relationship like the one you mentioned above if you don’t allow yourself to be a loving person. I believe that if you are loving and loveable, you will eventually find someone who will appreciate that. And after you do, won’t that make all the pain you went through to get there worth it, in the end?

Love requires a sacrifice, one of yourself. It’s not easy to offer up everything you are to another person. But you’ll never find what you’re looking for until you do, and letting a few real bitches change who you are probably doesn’t help you along very much.

One more thing. There’s a difference between a Nice Guy and a Naive Doormat. All of the things you mentioned that you did were nice. Some of them were downright stupid. I’m sure that part of you sees that distinction, but I thought I’d point it out nonetheless.

BYZ SEZ:

If you want to fuck then by all means, be the biggest asshole you can. Date rape. Use illegal and life threatening drugs just so you can basically use a woman’s body to masturbate in. Yes, it will work. Go after girls. If you are 17 to 18 start hanging around girls who are 13 to 14… they are easily manipulated and will accept almost everything you say at face value. Read everything Mark has EVER posted and take it to heart. You’ll get laid. And probably get a social disease as well. Or, as in Mark’s case, BE a social disease.


I don’t agree with this statement because in MarkSerlin’s posts, he never mentioned anything like that and it does sound like he made some major efforts to achieve normal relationships with some incredible bad luck. Sex does drive most relationships, as most professionals will tell you, along with many other things because it is human nature. A man is attracted to a girl, often by her looks which generate a sexual attraction within him for her. Naturally, he will mostly ‘get to know her’ to see if they are compatible.

I’ve had casual sexual relationships with women who have ‘jumped’ me on the first date and relationships with women who I would have enjoyed sleeping with but never did. Both were rewarding. Nothing was mentioned in any post about ‘date rape.’ Nor was there any post by any poster concerning the manipulation of immature young girls for the purpose of sexual relationships alone.

BYZ, in my opinion, you’re reading far too much into this and taking out your own frustrations on whoever you perceive to be attacking your belief system.

Most of the guys in school are in puberty, and during that stage their sexual desires are at their highest levels. (Any doctor will tell you this.) Never again in their lives will they feel the INTENSITY of the drive to copulate as then. Nearly all are seeking a sexual and emotional encounter and many of the girls in school are doing the same thing.

Most of the people I know who married their high school sweet hearts right after graduation are divorced now whereas, the many I know who wed after getting some experience after school in the real world, are still married.

Now, I, personally know no adult virgins over age 25, male or female. In talking with the women I know and have worked with in jobs, all have had several sexual encounters and many have enjoyed ‘one night stands’. Several women with lovers and plans to marry, have stated that they would LOVE to have a sexual encounter with a male movie star or some famous male ‘hunk’ at least once BUT would not let their lover know because they wouldn’t want to hurt him. (That kind of surprised me, because I expected such statement from men, rather than women.)

The OP is actually just ‘acting his age.’ I also do not personally know any guy who has ever used any date rape drug for sex or expressed a desire to do so.


What? Me worry?’

Oh yeah, I forgot but the main reason for the above post was to display that girls also have the desire to just have a ‘good fuck’ now and then rather than a lengthy, intimate relationship.


What? Me worry?’

This, in my experience, is the problem for 85% of the Nice Guys out there. Fear of rejection and low self-esteem grow both daily and exponentially, and can quickly reach paralyzing levels. It takes a bit of a revelation (or a lot of alcohol) to get yourself over that wall.

And the thing is, if you can yank one brick, it just makes it easier to get the next one out. I removed my first brick in a long while on a rainy night last February, and I’ve been ripping them out so quickly that I think I must be covered in brickdust. And it hurts like hell; I can’t tell if what’s running off my fingers is blood or sweat, but I know I want to see what’s on the other side more than anything else.

Okay, enough with the deep stuff. This

is terrible. This is nothing personal against jaws, as just about every woman I know feels this exact same way. This last holdout against equal rights is the most annoying thing in the world. Women are equally capable of chasing men. Men are equally capable of handling a situation where a friend has to be rejected. The women I’ve recently struck up dating realtionships showed only, in my opinion, a marginal interest in me before I asked them out. There’s absolutely no reason, in my opinion, that men should be forced to continue shouldering this burden. But, I also realize that our society isn’t going to flip a switch and alleviate this problem, so I deal.

Anyway, enough with the rant. Nice Guys can find girls, and I’m proof. You just have to be able to say fuck it, screw up your courage (liquid or otherwise), and ask her.

So basically, what smilingjaws said.


He weathered a firestorm of agony and did not break.
And while Yori raged against his unbending
courage, we took Kyuden Hiruma back.
His loss is great, but so is the gift his suffering brought.
-Yakamo’s Funeral

In the school years,I had low self-esteem,and only liked "bad"guys,in other words,guys who looked good,but treated women badly.Why?Low self-esteem,I guess. Its apparantly a common problem for girls. Now I am mature,I look inside;its doesn’t matter what the outside looks like;if he’s sweet and kind,I like him.

Rainbowcsr – uh, huh. Who mentioned date rape? I DID. Oh, pardon me for mentioning it first. He wanted to know how to get laid and I told him how. As most “professionals” can tell you, you need to “pull your head out” and go sit and have a long chat with Mark.

As for who is reading too much into this, I suggest you find a very shiny surface and peer into it. What do you see? If you see Mark I’m not surprised.


Best!
Byz

If I were bored I’d go through this thread and the last and count up how many guys have posted “Hey! That was me too!” and started out with a sob story then followed it with a bitter rant about the horrors of being a nice guy. Then I’d count how many women either reacted violently against these rants, or said “Poor dear… you’ll get yours when you’re 35…”. Then I’d go get a Cider Jack, because this is my life and I’m sick of dealing with it.

I apologize for the generalizations… I know there are exceptions, buy for now I will treat the vast majority as the whole.

Women don’t understand what it’s like to be a nice guy. They can’t… even the ugliest woman will get hit on. At least occasionally. A nice guy doesn’t get those strokes. What a nice guy usually gets is a beautiful female best friend. Being a nice guy, he will not push the relationship, especially because she almost always has a boyfriend. He won’t just sever communication, because he’s a nice guy, and it’s alright to be just friends. And he will have the fantasy of fucking her one day firmly in his mind, no matter how unlikely it is. Then the daggers… “You’re such a nice guy… I wish I could find someone like you…” “Oh, I could never date you, you’re like a brother!” “I just had wonderful sex with my boyfriend last night! I’m glad he still loves me… I thought he might not after he slept with my best friend and then came home to slap me around…”

Jealousy… jealousy and outrage. That’s what I remember of being nice. I knew I was a better person in all respects to the losers my female friends were dating. But somehow that never translated into confidence. In fact, it made my shyness worse because I started to think there must be something horribly wrong with me. It made my suspect any rare someone who might show me the time of day. (At least I was handsome… ugly and nice is a recipe for suicide) I started to resent attractive girls because I knew that I had no chance, and I knew they were flocking to me with motives that had nothing to do with getting naked in a tub of tapioca pudding. So there I was… I wanted to be nice. I always opened doors for girls, listened well, cared about their problems… but I also became a mysogynistical bastard who thought that to get a woman you need to slap her down, tell her she’s fat, and sleep with her friends to make her think she’s lucky to have you.

It took a long time but I think I have found balance. I still think that a very large number of women will respond “favorably” to abuse, but I will not lower myself to that. I also think that a very large number of women will date nearly anything that asks without making a fool of itself (Women can smell fear). This is the fall of a nice guy… he’s usually slower to ask than the “bad guys” and so misses out. To balance, I am finding things in myself to excell at, to give me confidence, and through this I am gaining in the ability to deal with women. I also don’t even talk to women with abusive boyfriends. I’m a friend, not a crying towel. Maybe I’m missing out on some great friendships, but at least I don’t have to get beaten down by all the bullshit that they used to lay on me.

As far as the “Wait till you’re 35…” line, I’m sorry. That’s 10 years I would rather spend doing something better than being bitter about my poor sex life. And anyways, I get to 35 and I haven’t got any for 10 years, I’m using my age and guile (and money) to get myself some 18 yr old cheerleaders. Why would I be interested in some woman that wasn’t been interested in me until her looks began to fade?

Anyways, it’s all about balance. I’m not always nice anymore, but I am always honest. I’m still courteous… I still respect women in general… but I don’t deal with the ones I lose respect for. I’m not doing a whole lot better in the romantic department, but at least I’m happier about it, and once I have my stripper body back, I oughta have confidence coming out of my ears. Watch your daughters…


http://www.madpoet.com
Computers have let mankind make mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns.

I just read Mark’s long message from the previous page… gave me a few more thoughts
There is a fine line between a truly nice guy and pushover. Most of us “nice” guys have really crossed that line and have become pushovers. You can’t get what you want by giving. You must take. Take nicely… take what is yours… but Take. Giving something and then expecting recognition or reward is fruitless. Enjoy the rewards as you get them, but don’t expect them. Furthermore, is a gift really a gift if it’s paid for? We all do it… “I saved a busload of nuns and I didn’t even make the news!” If you help someone else with the expectation of fucking them, you’re not giving them a gift, you’re trying to buy them. Watch your motives… be happy to help people, but don’t do it if it’s going to make you feel worse. Don’t do it if you need the reward to make yourself feel better. Because people in general are selfish and greedy, and most will take what you give without even blinking.

And never, ever, give something you need more.


http://www.madpoet.com
Computers have let mankind make mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns.

Well, I gotta chime in here on behalf of the “bitter old maids of 40,” the never-married women you’re supposed to run like a bunny from.

Why did I never get married? Because the few men I wanted to marry didn’t want to marry me, and vice versa. I’ve dated my share of “thugs” and “nice guys,” too. I only dated one or two thugs—and if any of them had ever hit me, just once, there’d have been nothing left of him for his mother to identify. Mostly, I did date nice guys, but it just didn’t work out in the long run. No hard feelings on either side.

And while I am nice-enough looking now, I was a very geeky, Daria-like teenager who got a LOT of grief from guys who didn’t think I was pretty enough. Yeah, looks DO count, for both sexes. Tough world; either deal with it or leave it.

Now, I’m happy being single. If Mr. Right comes along I’ll welcome him in, but I’m hardly setting out road flares for him. Mostly, the guys my age are married or gay. So, I may wind up never having another boyfriend—but like my Aunt Ida says, “it’s better to be alone than to wish you were.”

BigRory: Work hard, study hard, go to college. THEN you’ll get laid. That’s what college is for ;). I hardly even got my bags unpacked. But that was a while ago–be careful out there.

MarkSerlin:

This may sound callous but I’m speaking from long experience with someone whose history sounds something like yours: Stop looking for love from head cases. Someone I know has a history of being the best pal of women who are in/coming out of abusive relationships, drug problems, mental illnesses and so on. He is always there to lend money, babysit, listen to them whine, whatever. Then he married one. Bad, bad move. It’s over now, and I hope he’ll have better luck next time, but…

If you want healthy relationships, hang around with healthy people. You are seriously burned out, which is no big surprise.

Ain’t love grand? Most everyone here knows that I am a 30 year old Cat Lady with absolutely no love life. The whole situation is just so frustrating. Over the years, I can think of 4 guys that I was friends with who would have liked to have been more than just friends. One was from high school and the other three were from college. These were WONDERFUL guys. They would have done anything for me. I would have done anything for them. I loved being friends with them. I would say to myself all the time, “Why don’t I like them for anything more than friendship?? They would be a perfect boyfriend! Everything I ever wanted!” And yet…nothing. I just couldn’t make myself feel that extra something that a girl feels for a boyfriend. I tried with one guy, and the results were awful. You can’t force feelings of love, they are either there or they aren’t.

The guys I did feel something for fell into a few different groups. Some were “bad boys” but most were just normal guys who didn’t feel for me the way I felt for them. I have no idea why some of them dumped me. Now I rarely date. My last attempt was no better than any other. The guy dated me for 4 weeks and then gave me the brush off with no explanations. So I give up. The whole thing is just too hard, whether you try to be “nice” or not.

I guess there is no point to my post, just wanted to share my story. Carry on.


I crave an art that passionately transcends the mundane instead of being a device for self-deception.–Griffin, from The Griffin and Sabine trilogy.

Confidence.

My honey is very bright, very funny, educated, kind, thoughtful, super-polite, good, honest and true. On top of that, he is physically a very, very beautiful man.

Yet, he had rotten luck with women. They just weren’t interested. He had become convinced that not only was he a social toad, he must be repellent to look upon as well.

I happen to have a weakness for shy, sweet, gorgeous young men, so we ended up together. And I told him the truth, about how terrific he is, and the only reason he couldn’t score witht he chicks and ugly bastards could came down to one thing: confidence. Women respond to men who seem confident, sure of themselves, powerful in one way or another. It’s just a fact.

my nickle.

stoid