Why is "stop" and "no" so fucking hard to understand?

The BBQ Pit
21

OK, this bit bugged me.

I sincerely hope that at some point someone explains to this lowlife that she wasn’t OK and the reason she wasn’t OK was that he was a piece of scum who tried to rape her. Someone needs to make it extremely clear to him that going on a date does not necessarily mean you’re going to get laid or, if that wasn’t what he was thinking, whatever was passing through what passes for his mind was wrong. Why do I suspect right now he’s thinking she just overreacted?

Obsidian, you’re a good person. Thank you so much for doing the right thing. If you, your roommate and his sister want prayers and/or good wishes, you’ve got them.

CJ

22

I’m thinking all the concern was merely an expression of his panic at the realization that she might turn him in, plus the (not unrealistic, unfortunately) hope that if he acted all concerned, she would feel that “he didn’t mean it.” (As in, “he didn’t mean to hurt me, he’s the victim here.”)

23

If she wants to go. A few people have suggested this without any indication that it matters whether or not the girl wants to go to a counselor or not. I think it does matter, and that forcing her to go to one if she’s set against it (or for that matter, forcing her to deal with the cops if she’s set against it) isn’t the best course of action.

I might get flamed for this, but I really don’t think it’s up to her brother whether she sees a counselor or wants to go through a prosecution. I think it’s up to her. Why hasn’t anybody asked how she wants to handle it?

24

My guess, catsix , is that no one really knows what to do or how to help in the early stages of these situations. So we revert to what we remember from all the public service announcements: “get professional help”.

I didn’t seek any kind of counseling or therapy after I was attacked. I’m okay. Perhaps it’s not for everyone, but critical for others. At this point the sister may not be able to express what she does or doesn’t want in any realistic way.

25

Any good rape defense advice (from a crisis center, a self-defense class or seminar, or what have you) would say the same thing that you do: fight like hell. I think that the chance of the attacker escalating from “just” rape to murder is considered less than the possibility of doing enough damage to stop the attack or incapacitate the bastard. Your roommate’s sister did the right thing by fighting (she got away!), and you and he are doing the right things to care for her and keep her safe. Good on you - if only there were more people in this world who cared enough and knew enough to do what’s right. I hope they put that asshole away.

26

Any good rape defense advice (from a crisis center, a self-defense class or seminar, or what have you) would say the same thing that you do: fight like hell. I think that the chance of the attacker escalating from “just” rape to murder is considered less than the possibility of doing enough damage to stop the attack or incapacitate the bastard. Your roommate’s sister did the right thing by fighting (she got away!), and you and he are doing the right things to care for her and keep her safe. Good on you, Obsidian - if only there were more people in this world who cared enough and knew enough to do what’s right. I hope they put that asshole away.

27

Oh, for… the first part of my reply was directed to SmartAleq, everything else (3rd sentence on) was for Obsidian.

Yeah, and sorry for the double post, too.

:smack:

28

I didn’t either. I dealt with it on my own the way that I wanted to. I just thought that it’s important that everyone, including her brother, keep in mind that it is her decision how to handle this.

Which is what makes it so important (in my opinion) to ask her, so that she can start to feel in control of her life again.

29

Since she went to a hospital, I hope they addressed this, but I hope she got the “morning after” pill to prevent pregnancy. Even if he didn’t ejaculate or was wearing a condom, this is a case of better safe than sorry - a woman can get pregnant even if the guy doesn’t ejaculate, and condoms aren’t 100%.

I’m sorry to hear this happened to her. I think your best bet in dealing with this is to not play up the “victim” aspect - yes, it was a bad thing, but it doesn’t define her, and it doesn’t need to be life destroying.

30

At the least, the people who are close to her, and are going to try to help her get trhough this should seek advice on how best to provide the kind of support she’s going to need to fight off the guilt she felt/may still feel.

31

Definetly make sure she takes one. A friend that got into a similar situation didn’t want to even talk about that, because it forced her to remember it - but this is one thing that has to be dealt with quickly (we managed to persuade her to take it, thankfully) and if nothing else is the one thing she must do.

32

Thank you again for all your good wishes. As of the last update I received, the guy remains in jail, and she’s gone back to her appartment to sleep there.

I don’t know what’s going on as far as counselling and all, as I’m not really close to her. I believe she already has a therapist, stemming from her mother’s death. I don’t know if there was a need for the morning-after pill, but I don’t doubt it was offered, as she went to a public hospital. (The nearest hospital to our house is a Catholic hospital, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that is WHY my roommie drove the extra distance)

I never said no one asked. However, at that point she was to upset to make any kind of decisions. He could have gone the lazy/easy way and just put her to bed on our couch, but taking her to the ER at 1 AM was the right thing to do. She had just been assaulted and needed to be checked out by a doctor.

She wanted her brother to go beat the living snot out of this guy. As her brother would like to have a career in policework and not do a stretch in San Quentin, this was not an option.

She was very upset, terrified, and convinced he was going to come after her. She wanted protection, and the only (legal) way to get that was to involve the police, which her brother explained to her. And it seems she got great treatment by the police, which I’m sure is why she decided to go through with the prosecution. I think being told by a number of strangers (esp. authority figures) over and over that it’s not your fault can really make a difference. Cops, nurses, everyone. Apparently they were all great.

I get what you’re saying, though. She needed help through the first night, but she’s driving this boat now.

33

When my little sister was 13, someone pushed her against a locker and groped her breasts. She broke his nose. The principal called my parents in a started in on “violence is not the answer”, and my Dad gets up in his face and says simply, “I have never been so proud of my daughter.” My sister and I were taught to fight from an early age. We were taught to make a stand where you’re grabbed. I feed my keys through my fingers in dark parking lots, and I’ve learned (through experience) that my first instinct when threatened is to fight. I think I’m strong, and can defend myself.

But I’m with Heckity. As an experiment I asked my boyfriend, who’s strong enough pick me up and toss me, and has hand-to-hand combat training, to try pinning me down. I could. Not. Move. Not my arms, not my legs, not my body. Couldn’t move a limb enough to hurt him. I am 5’3" and 75 lbs lighter than him, and if I were on a date with a guy like him, hooking up, felt he was going to far and asked him to stop, there’d be nothing I could do but scream. Bet a lot of date rapes are like that. Scared the living piss out of me.

34

Not to argue, but if I were morally opposed to abortion or contraception even in the case of rape, I’d feel a lot worse if my “friends” hassled me about taking the morning after pill-- especially if they got me to take it because I was scared and not really aware of everything that was going on.

If she was already on the pill, the guy didn’t ejaculate, and it wasn’t the right time of the month, why should she have to go through the nausea, vomiting, and cramps because her friends peer-pressured her into it?

Counseled, yes. Offered, yes. FORCED, NO. (Aren’t we already discussing how forcing something is a bad idea?)

Corr

35

Understandable point. If she does have a moral opposition, even in the case of rape, then taking advantage of her confusion and forcing her would be bad. On the other hand, though, you can always come to terms with it afterwards (hopefully) - if you find out you’re pregnant later on, it’s a lot harder (morally and physically) to give it up. I have no problems with abortion myself, neither did my friend, so in her case it was a lot easier (and no, we didn’t force her ). My advice was pretty biased from that, I suppose. Apologies. I still say it’s an important decision, and one that needs to be made quickly (for obvious reasons) though.

Sorry for arguing in this thread, Obsidian - I really do hope your roomate’s sister is able to recover from this ok. Many hugs to her.

36

Obsidian- I’m sorry for your friend and his sister, and glad you did all the stuff you should have done.

Can I suggest some nice things you and her brother can do for her now? Obviously, some of it might not apply, and I’m thinking of worst case scenario, but you can think about it.

Make sure she eats: she might be angry, depressed, tired, hyper or whatever else, but she’ll probably not be in shape to cook for herself or to remember to eat. That might mean bringing her casseroles, taking her out to dinner, doing a grocery shop for her or whatever, but do something, she needs her strength.

Bring over some nice bath stuff: she might not be concious of feeling dirty, but she may be taking a lot of baths and showers at the moment and she might appreciate it.

Make her feel safe: get a deadlock, peephole and chain fitted to her front door if she doesn’t have them already. If her building has an electronic entry code, ask for the code to be changed.

Make her feel accepted: if there was something she and her brother or she and you always used to do, keep doing it. Whether that’s a weekly poker and pizza night or just making fun of each other’s hairstyle and taste in music, whatever it is, don’t stop doing it. Something horrible happened to her and changed her, but not in the fundamental ways she think it might have-don’t let her forget that.

Don’t let her sit at home: get her out to the shops, the cinema, a restaurant, a cafe. Take her to safe, public, familiar places. Nowhere too crowded, nowhere too male (a sports stadium is not ideal) and nowhere where getting up and leaving would be a problem.

Thoughtful gifts: a comfy blanket to snuggle up in, a good book to distract, a CD of her favourite band, scented candles to make home feel more like home, you’re a girl, you know the drill!

37

Sorry to hear about other men being cavemen. I understand that date raping in the USA is quite high too.

Still I have the wierd feeling that she might go back to this guy later. Don’t know why this thought came to me. Also I bet a bit too much of drinking was involved.

As for the fake rape horsing around… I had some difficulty keeping my GF under control enough for sex to happen a while back. I even thaught her some judo stuff that helped her hold me back. If the guy doesn’t have a weapon it can be mighty hard to overpower a woman totally. In the end its fear or threats that will help most in getting a woman subdued. Waiting for the right moment to fight back is a good choice too.

38

I beg your pardon?

39

Rilchiam, I’m pulling from the post that Rashak Mani is talking about sexual role-playing (“fake rape horsing around”). If you are going to take issue with anything in his post, choose the second sentence which contains yet another USA drive-by.

40

Rashak Mani- let me bet you that this girl never, ever wants to see this guy again and that if she does run into him again she’ll feel physically ill and scared rather than overcome with lust.

If there was “too much” drinking, it doesn’t seem to have removed her ability to know when someone was trying to overstep their boundaries in quite the same way it removed that asshole’s ability to act like a civilised human being.

You weren’t able to overpower your girlfriend during your role-playing game because your didn’t want to hurt her. That’s why it’s “role-playing” not reality…it’s not exactly the same context as real life.

And I’m hoping that you have no real-life experience of this, and that no one you care about does either, because to be honest your post didn’t exactly come off as sympathetic to this girl’s situation.

" She might go back to this guy later"
" I bet a bit too much drinking was involved"
“In the end its fear or threats that will help most in getting a woman subdued”.
Yep, that reads like someone who empathises deeply with this poor girl.

But then, you’re from macho latin-america…