I usually say something like, “I refuse to normalize fascism.” They’ll never understand, even if you drew them a picture.
Push back at every turn, then point out to your daughter that you are only responding to his pushing, and that if he didn’t push there wouldn’t be any push-back. That makes it his fault.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1120621/download
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1165301/download
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1208281/download
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1306611/download
I wasn’t willing to give up my child.
She like the OPs family members is not very politically savvy or very interested. Her boyfriend and his family are not people I’d choose, for her, or even to know them.
I chose to ban any political talk when she’s around. Cause, well…its my house and thems the rules.
So far it’s working.
Interesting the way you put that, considering it was a two-way exchange. Since you put in an effort for the sake of peace, did she do the same?
A couple of short answers could include:
He is dishonest.
He does not respect the rule of law.
He is disloyal.
He seeks sycophants rather than competence.
He has legitimized meanness, cruelty, and hatred, thereby lowering the tone of discourse.
He has used his office for his private financial gain.
He has used his office to seek revenge for perceived slights.
The list could go on and on. And you could provide any number of examples for each. But what would you expect to gain from that exercise?
An alternative might be to pose questions - ask, “What do you like/respect about him and his policies?” Then, if they give you an example, you can either point out the issues with anything suggested, or ask if his goals could not have been pursued in a more humane manner. Maybe ask them why Biden’s policies - based on fact, not soundbites - were worse.
I would imagine it shouldn’t be too hard to find any number of articles by professional wordsmiths setting out succinctly why he is a horrible person to be president. You could simply present your dtr/granddtr with copies and say, “These represent my views well. I’d be happy to discuss them if you wish. And if you disagree with them, please explain why. I wish to know what you think and why.”
However, I think the only real approach is to simply set an example by leading your life, and expressing your thoughts in words such as you believe a decent human ought to. I believe that also allows you to succinctly tell folk who spout off in support of Trump that you consider their views ugly, ignorant, and contrary to fact. But lengthy debates are VERY unlikely to succeed in anything other than hardening any rift.
The big problem is that they mostly have no opinions of him. As I said upthread, they are mostly ignorant…though I expect granddaughter to be now getting earfuls of the other side’s opinions.
This is true, so I guess I wonder what you will get from the interaction? If it’s just to make it clear that you disapprove of him, then shorter is better. Simply state what harm you think Trump has caused and why that harm matters to you.
That is descriptive but verbose. I prefer Gen. Mark Milley’s succinct description:
What more needs to be said?
How despicable is it to let a grandchild enter into marriage with a “hardcore TrumpSucker” to backs a ‘leader’ who is doing everything possible to attack powerless minorities, destroy democratic institutions, and undermine the economic and national security of this country without speaking up and warning her? Capitulating to and mealy-mouthing emergent fascism and authoritarianism to ‘keep the peace’ is a contemptible act of cowardice.
Stranger
He is lazy, wilfully ignorant, and a narcissist. He thinks he is the brightest in the room when he is the dimmest. He is convinced he is smart because he manages to cheat and lie and scam people so successfully that he fails upward. He is rich, yet has no money sense. He equates wealth with status. He has gaudy taste. He is a hypocrite. And he is a racist misogynistic piece of crap.
I guarantee you they have no idea what that word means, or who Milley is.
Your examples are great. Here’s a few more:
“I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. … Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
Video footage from the gathering shows Trump putting his right hand on the right arm of Montenegro Prime Minister Dusko Markovic and pushing himself ahead as NATO leaders walked inside the alliance’s new headquarters in Brussels.
Trump is still a convicted felon.
So much has been discussed about what a terrible “president” and nasty person DumbDonald is here on the Dope, but over many threads and zillions of posts.
Perhaps trying to capture the entirety of the MAGA Menace’s nastiness is a Sisyphean task.
Yeah…probably this.
I agree with this. Keeping the peace in a family is important, but not if your country is sliding into fascism. It’s very hard to confront these issues, but it must be done. Maybe all you do is plant a seed – but it’s a very important seed.
I confronted my parents during my last visit in February for the first time in a very long time. I didn’t start the discussion, but this time when the little digs and snipes started, I pushed back. Hard. I was not disrespectful. I was not mean. I stuck to the issues and did not personalize my points in any way, although I did mention how often they do that in lieu of offering any factual basis for their views. I made it clear that if they bring up something political, I will respond. And I explained that I am doing so out of love for them and trying to keep our family relationship going despite this vast gulf between us. Told them that walking away would be the far easier choice, which it would indeed be.
All credit to my stepmother, who let me speak freely for nearly 3 hours straight to explain why I am so opposed to the Trump regime.
I don’t know if it will do any good over the long term, but I can tell you that at least I’m sleeping a lot better for having said my piece. It’s important now, even if very hard and uncomfortable.
@MindsEye_Watering, I do wonder if you can get a discussion going by asking them some threshold questions, such as:
What role do you believe government should play in the lives of its citizens?
In what ways are Trump and his administration furthering those goals?
Is it important to maintain close ties with global allies? To honor our treaties and agreements?
Is it important for holders of high office to have good ethical character?
Should holders of high office be free of criminal activity?
Do you like having a bully, a grifter and a rapist for president? Is this something to be proud of?
What exactly do you find so appealing about Trump?
You get the idea.
Good luck. It’s a tough thing to do, for sure.
Do you know how much more effective a short message said once has to be to overcome a constant barrage on the other side? Advertising doesn’t work because it is said reasonably and only once. It works because it is repeated, loud, and pushes other ideas out of your head.
Thanks. Makes sense.
If she is of age, even not, since her Mom backs this situation, He can’t stop her. He’s driving her right into Trumper boyfriends arms.
That’s how it is. Love trumps(heh) Gramps disapproval.
My daughter has listened enough to not marry her boyfriend. Yet. I’m walking a tightrope trying to prevent it.
I’m certainly not gonna read a lengthy list of Trumps crimes, to her.
What do you think it would accomplish?
What would Trump need to do, or say, or be, in order for people who prize family relationships continuing to reject a family member?
I deeply suspect that if you were asked this question 10 years ago, or even 5, he would have already done several things on your list. Does he need to wear a Nazi uniform? Have Americans put in concentration camps? Invade a friendly country? Or is there nothing he could conceivably do that would make you walk away from a family member who supports him?
She’s has been. She never has spouted the Right wing crap. Never worn MAGA apparel. Never went to a rally or anything.
It strictly the boyfriend and his family.
Awhile ago,
She brought him here. He spouted some crap and got jumped on here til he got mad enough to leave.
She went with him.
I talked to her a minute or two privately, made a rude joke about Boyfriend and his Trump worship. That did it.
She wouldn’t talk to me.
Wouldn’t come here.
We got her here, kinda sneaky like. And her siblings got to her. So she’s calmed down. I promised her I wouldn’t make rude jokes about her boyfriend anymore.
So we are at a tenuous cease fire.
And she is coming here more and checking in.
We okay.
“What do you think it would accomplish?”
Education, I would hope.