Then I guess you’re stuck until you find a woman with standards as low as yours.
Who says he’s got low standards? Look, the average woman is pretty good. What have you got against women? Your typical woman is definately worth having sex with.
Trouble is, the average woman doesn’t wanna have sex with the average guy. No, she wants to have an above average guy. Well, it turns out half of all men are below average. What are they supposed to do, kill themselves?
No silly, they’re supposed to masturbate!
A heterosexual guy who is primarily interested in sex is primarily interested in a-woman. He may be only interested in a subset of women, but it’s the womanness that’s the selling point.
This is not a very high bar to meet; it’s a stunningly low set of requirements. Especially from the perspective of “The typical woman is definitely worth having sex with”; that’s, what, a majority of the adult population qualifies?
You are providing, without knowing, the perfect example of why men must pretend they don’t want to have sex with women at first. Yes, there are more reasons than JUST sex to date a woman, such as companionship, etc., but the main overriding fundamental reason why guys are interested in you at all is because they want to have sex with you.
It took me an amusingly long time to realize that this wasn’t some kind of sexual metaphor.
Basically, I think the reasoning is that most women are looking for a relationship, and aren’t looking to have sex outside of one. Therefore, if you want to have sex with them, you have to have that not be your primary goal – in perception if not necessarily in reality. (As kimera said, there are women who are more straightforward with wanting sex, and with these women, pretense probably isn’t necessary.)
The ideal scenario, of course, is one in which both participants are looking for the same thing (a sex-filled relationship or “just” sex), but if that isn’t the case, then you have to pretend.
Well, ideally, you’d just move the hell on and find somebody who does have the same desires as you, but if you just have to bang that gal who wants to be in a relationship first, then you have to pretend to want something more than just sex. Really, guys just bring it on themselves.
Well, I’m out of the game now, so it isn’t necessary anymore. If, however, I ever have to re-enter the arena, I would consider it a great kindness if all below-average men do go out and commit ritual suicide. That would increase my odds exponentially.
You’re just talking about dating. Don’t men also want to have sex with most of the women they run across in their day to day lives? My ex-husband certainly did. I know this because he kept a list.
So if you’re wondering whether or not you should announce to your boss that you want to have sex with her, I recommend that you do not.
Er, I don’t know why I slipped into the editorial “you,” but rest assured that it is the editorial you and not directed toward the OP (or anyone else).
I don’t really understand this statement . . . more color?
In terms of pure sex, men actualy do have stunningly low requirements. However, there is a “worth the effort?” ratio that comes in to play.
For example, if a guy could walk into a room to find woman bending over naked and waiting for sex only, and after which he could walk away with no strings attached . . . that woman need not be that attractive, it’s just sex. The bar is low in this instance.
Take that same woman and put her in a bar setting . . . the “worth the effort” scale comes in to play and may disqualify her. The man would have to go to a certain amount of effort to ultimately have sex with a less-than-attractive woman, (conversation, possibly spend money on drinks, etc.) so the bar is set a little higher in that circumstance (and gradually lowered back down as the night progresses and more alcohol is consumed). The “worth the effort” scale also has social ramifications . . . you don’t want to lower your social status (too much) by being seen taking home a woman below a certain standard. Plus, you may have to deal with phone calls and whatnot later . . . all of these things are taken into consideration.
Finally, there are actual “dates.” The bar is higher still because you are devoting a considerable amount of your free time and money to the prospect of sex, so she has to have more value. The quality of the entertainment for the evening will also depend on the perceived value of the woman.
The main goal in all of these scenarios is sex. The only reason the bar is set higher at times is to make it worth the use of resources. There is obviously a certain amount of speculation as far as dates are concerned, but the end goal is still sex.
And, since we know that women like you think that the date is about much more than sex, we pretend that we feel the same way so that in the end we hopefully get what we took all this time and trouble for.
Yes yes, there is more than just sex involved in dates and relationships, but from the male side, that’s the first and foremost priority.
See, I guess this is where Lilairen learns something about men. Yeah, when a guy wants sex, they even want sex with the average looking women, with the boring women, with the dumb women, with the borderline personality disorder women, as well as with the attractive women, the interesting women, the smart women, and the stable women.
And what do all these women have in common?
Are you starting to catch on? Men wanna have sex with women, yes? And the most important characteristic of those women is that they are, in fact, women. So basically, guys walk through life looking at women of reproductive age saying to themselves, “Yep, that one’s good. I’d hit that one too. And oooooh baby, take a look at that one. That one’s a little chunky, but not bad. She’d clean up nice if she washed that crap off her face…and her body’s pretty tight. Hmm, nice and innocent, I’d like to teach her a few things. Oh, nice and slutty, I bet she’d know how to show me a good time. Oooo, shiny!”
Trouble is, the percentage of women who would have sex with you if you used your out loud voice while thinking these things is roughly zero. And this is not to say that all men want is a vagina. But thing is, if a man wants someone to hang out with and have conversations with he’s usually already got male friends to do that with. And if you’re a female friend that he enjoys hanging out with and having conversations with, well, if you had sex with him it would just improve things. Conversations and hanging out are easy for men to get, sex isn’t. So why would he spend a lot of time and effort finding someone to hang out with when he’s already got plenty of buddies, male and female, who are fine with hanging out but are not gonna have sex with him?
So a man is looking for a woman with standards so low that she’ll sleep with a loser like him. And even then, if she knew what he was really like, what he was really after, she wouldn’t want to sleep with him. I’m too young to give up having sex for the rest of my life just because I’m a loser that no self-respecting above average woman would consent to have sex with, unless I don’t make a big deal of the fact that I primarily want to have sex with her.
And so, I’m married, and I love my wife. But if she decided that she didn’t want to have sex with me any more, I’d have to leave her and find someone else who did. I’d hate to have to do that, but what else could I do? I can’t help the fact that I want to have sex. I know there are surgical or chemical methods that can cure my unfortunate condition, but those are a little bit drastic for me yet.
Yes, men do want to have sex with most of the women they run across. The first thought men have when they see a woman is “would I have sex with this woman?” The second is “could I have sex with this woman?” followed by a much less important “should I have sex with this woman?”
The answer to all 3 questions is usually “yes,” with the exception of question #2.
Actually it wouldn’t. 50% of the remaining men would now be below-average.
Yes, that’s precisely my point.
Consider the guy who is willing to be deceptive about his intent in order to get laid, the one that’s being posited as ‘the normal guy’ here.
Now consider the guy who happens to love women, love to spend time with women, and also is free and open with the fact that he finds those women attractive and would be willing to do something with them if they were interested.
Or the guy who has one or more female friends he enjoys spending time with, shares interests with, and may also find attractive. (This is what ‘normal guys’ are like in my experience.)
Which one of those guys is going to come across as worth the effort? The liar, the player, or the ordinary fellow? If I were interested in casual no-strings sex, I’d be going for the player, myself. For a real relationship, the ordinary guy. Under no circumstances is the guy who misrepresents himself worth the effort.
When I’ve been interested in relatively no-strings sex, it’s always been with guys I knew and enjoyed spending time with as people. And who I’ve known well enough to know whether or not an approach would be welcome, for that matter.
I have never found it difficult to find men who were capable of genuinely treating me as an interesting person even when they found me attractive. Thus, the guys whose primary interest is figuring out what buttosn to push to get me into bed aren’t really in the running – they’re competing with the large pool of guys who I know enjoy spending time with me, talking with me, doing things with me, even without sex being one of the possible results of the interaction at the moment. Someone who’s only offering a pretend version of that in order to have sex possibly available just sin’t offering that much.
Roboto et al, you all sound pretty young to me. Many men actually mature to the point where they find that “can I get sex out of this?” is not the primary question that arises in their minds during a conversation with a woman.
Frankly, a man whose primary and overriding interest is in having sex is pretty dull. Unless something really spectacular happens in the bedroom, most of us women could have a better time staying at home with a book or movie.
So please, don’t fake it and don’t lie. If sex is your primary (and from what some of you say, really your only) aim, by all means let us know. In fact, better yet, buy it. You may well end up spending less money, and it will be a lot less hassle for you if you don’t need to bother with all that stupid conversation and follow up phones calls and stuff, not to mention the whole routine of pretending you actually have some interest in the girl above her neck (or mouth) or exerting yourself to make yourself attractive to the girl.
See, I (and suspect most women) actually don’t want to spend time with someone who isn’t enjoying that time with me, regardless of what we’re doing. And men whose primary interest in a woman is sex strike me as men who really don’t like women very much - they want them, but they don’t like them. They have men friends they like. Nothing wrong with that, but please, don’t let me take up your time. You may miss a great time in bed (or so I’ve been told), but at least you won’t have to put up with all the nuisance.
Here is one theory on men’s attitude toward women and sex.
Listen, every single one of those guys (the straight ones anyway) are spending the time, talking, and doing stuff with you in order to get you in the sack. Not today (since you won’t give it up), but hopefully someday when you decide they’re “worthy”. You may not believe it, you may not like it, but that’s the way it is.
To be fair, many of us would prefer to actually like the woman we have sex with, so we’re willing to put in some time to see if something develops.
Of course, not liking someone isn’t necessarily a deal-breaker, and we’re also often flexible enough to consider having sex first and then seeing if friendship develops.
Only reproductive age? Great! You’ve left the post-menopausal women for me.
As I’ve matured, I find the secret to getting what you want in life is usually to stop wanting it so badly. However, this hasn’t helped me with the opposite sex. :dubious:
You continue to illustrate my point. First of all, you refer to the guys that are trying to get you in bed as “the liars” . . . my point is that by your own criteria . . . ALL MEN are liars!! I already qualified myself by conceding that yes, men do derive other pleasures from women (companionship, etc.) but my point is that the underlying motivation is always sex . . . period. Always. It’s irrelevant whether or not the man wants a relationship, because both these men and the others not intersted in a relationship still want sex, and it continues to be their primary motivation.
You know all those “great guys” that you’ve slept with and had relationships with? The moment they met you, they decided that they wanted to have sex with you, and then they did a good job of making you think otherwise.
I find it interesting how I’m assumed to be young for telling like it is. I disagree with your statement. I think that older men want sex just as much, only to a certain extent are already out of the running, especially if they are married.
You are asking me to do one thing, and then provide every scrap of evidence I need to know that I should do the exact opposite of your request. You’re missing the point . . . sex is ALL MEN’S PRIMARY AIM. And you’ve ignored my statements in which I say that it is not my only aim . . . I’ve already mentioned that there is more involved, i.e. companionship, etc. My point is that all men have the same primary aim, which is sex, and this thread, IMHO, provides sufficient evidence as to why we must pretend otherwise.
I’d also like to point out that the two people who have not agreed with my contention that the primary motivtion for men is sex are women . . . the men who have read this post have not disupted my claim.