And finally, if it wasn’t for the first Star Wars movie, none of the Trek movies would have ever happened. Star Wars was single-handedly responsible for the Hollywood “rush” on space-based special effects extravaganzas. Without that push, Paramount never would have seen Trek as anything more than a minor cult phenomenon. So there.
Not quite true, Before SW Paramount was going to bring ST back as a television series called Star Trek Phase II. The sets we
and scripts were ready but Nimoy did not want to be involved so they had a new Vulcan named Xon. When SW proved so successful the studio scrapped the TV plans and they made STTMP instead. It is SW that has copied so many Trek terms such as tractor beam, deflector shields, cloaking device, sublight speed, proton (photon) torpedo I wish GL would give it credit.
{{And finally, if it wasn’t for the first Star Wars movie, none of the Trek movies would have ever happened. Star Wars was single-handedly responsible for the Hollywood “rush” on space-based special effects extravaganzas. Without that push, Paramount never would have seen Trek as anything more than a minor cult phenomenon. So there.}}
Nearly all skiffy (sci-fi) movies have been complete and utter trash. Same for most TV shows purporting to be SF. Star Trek comes closer to being SF than Star Wars does. Lucas has very little, if ANY, understanding of SF. He does know his mythology. Roddenberry knew a bit about SF.
If a big film company hadn’t made ST movies, I’m sure that fanfilms would have been made, and quite possibly been better flicks.
Someone else has beaten me to the use of the term “sci-fi”, so I’ll forgo my usual rant.
I’ve been reading SF and fantasy since I was 8, my grandfather got me hooked on it.
And I believe that most readers of this thread will get a kick out of the www.eviloverlord.com website. It has lots of Helpful Hints for you aspiring evil overlords.
Lynn
If it’s helpful, I’ll compare everyone to Hitler so we can get this
over with as soon as possible.
{{It is SW that has copied so many Trek terms such as tractor beam, deflector shields, cloaking device, sublight speed, proton (photon) torpedo I wish GL would give it credit.}}
Tractor beam and sublight were used in the SF community before ST. I’m fairly sure that at least one Lensman book had a tractor beam mentioned. Deflector shields, cloaking devices, and fancy weaponry were also common, but not necessarily with those exact terms.
Warp speed, space warp, warp drive, hyperspace, all sorts of things are commonly used in SF.
Probably I shouldn’t post when it’s past my bedtime.
Lynn
If it’s helpful, I’ll compare everyone to Hitler so we can get this
over with as soon as possible.
As I said, he was making a Space Fantasy, not Science Fiction. THX1138 was Science Fiction. George makes no suggestion at all he was trying to create anything other than a Fairy Tale in a whizz-bang setting. He wasn’t even trying to make a popular movie, he just hoped that the things he liked would resonate with the audience. Which it did.
Well… lemme see… IMHO, as a fan of both, the chips for the “better” have to fall with… Star Wars! Here’s my reasoning… by way of illustrated rebuttal of other people’s points:
Jab’s priginal post…
I agree with Jess from a couple posts upward… they’re great characters. Wassamatta you folks never saw the ewoks movies either? Or the cartoon series? Lurdos…
And lead the Rebellion… OH SORRY thatw as Princess Leia and her president, Mon Mothma. Thus Star Wars. Try again, lurdos.
Hmmm… this is borderline truth… Worf would almost REQUIRE himself to kick Chewies butt… a challenge, etc… but who’s dumb enough to start that fight? Chewie and his fellow wookiee’s know the difference between good and evil… would worf just assume Chewiee was a bad guy and begin to rip him to shreds?
Jadzia Dax? Come on… Leia, killer of the mighty Jabba?
Those red suited guys from Jedi who did nothing.
…is there an echo in here???
Yeah I know it was shameful how Darth hid his chrome dome under that helmet, and WOW was the rug that Han Solo wore TERRIBLE or what?? :rolleyes:
NO but we did have to wait 16 years or so for the first ST movie, and THEN we had to wait 16 years for the panned view of the ship to end, and THEN as if THAT wasn’t enough they ruined a perfectly good ST2 by re-using that dumb footage!!! Argh. Don’t talk to me about lengthy sequels.
This is wrongful misdirection!! Star Wars Ep. 4, New Hope, how do they capture Leia in the besieged corvette?? They stun her…
Similarly, them light sabers are kinda useful too… Of course I never did see a single person on SW try to blow someone up by setting phasers on Explode… but then again SW had thermal detonators. Did we ever see one detonate?
Can you warm up a rock on Hoth using your phaser? No stupid, you cut your Tahn-tahn open with your LIGHTSABER and spend a night in Style.
I could almost grant this point and then I remembered THE FORCE… how about Vader’s chock grip??? or Obi Wan’s “old jedi mind trick” hmmm… let me see…
STAR WARS IS BETTER… these trekkies, they aren’t the characters you’re looking for…
(listening for the echo)
Yeah true enuff, even if Kirk’s were 100% pure tribble-hair
granted.
Han Solo had the force? How about all them pilots who got fried in ANY of the movies?
only humans (and ones speaking certain languages, at that) are arrogant enough to assume all computers are going to speak in english, OR that the only ones that’ll design said computers are HUMAN, and that humans aren’t capable of learning another language… PUH-lease.
Hey hey now, back up the truck… lets not talk about lame ST movies, huh??
And besides, I can’t believe I read the following:
Sake Samurai says…
…AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE…
Shucks guy… Ep. 4 was (and is) the most awesome thing… Hell I’ll ALMOST agree if all you’re talking about is the 20th anniversary edition… is possible thats all you’ve seen I suppose… but not the original… It sets the tone for the rest of the enging triad! It allows the viewer to get immersed. Even the technologicaly superior 5 and 6 DIDN’T spend that much time in space dogfighting! Empire granted is the best of all.
And Ep 1!!! WOW now I admit, on first viewing I was sooo distracted by Jar Jar binks that I coulda puked, it was disgustingly terrible… but I went back again because the whole Senator Palpatine getting control of the Senate tweaked my interest… and I ignored Jar Jar and guess what? For anyone who’s got a political eye its an awesome movie to see how to manipulate a government. Its not about Obi Wan and young Anakin… its all about Palpatine. Whats so terrible about that?
Many have tried… that being said I think the beauracracy of the Empire is what made it difficult for them. “Hey, Svensonn, get a form d-43 I’m gonna stomp these here ewoks with the foot of the scout walker… Hey is that a set of logs flying towards us??? Ahhhhhhhhh!”
See, the trouble with tribbles…
Han Solo knows Wookiee. Big deal.
And I always thought that Picard looked old.
As opposed to perfectly good transport ships. The Doctor was right, no need to scatter your ions all over the universe. Thanks Bones…
Hey hey now, leave the Droids out of it, hehehehe those crazy droids.
Yeah like Kirk getting laid. Too bad it didn’t have funky guitar and bass music with a heavy wah and kool flourescent lighting and you’d have to be over 18 to watch it.
And then there were GREEN human-like aliens. WOOO that was something besides war.
I read a book on the psychology of Star Trek, and one of the interesting points it brought up was ST’s intolerance of other cultures… feminists were writing about the fake-equality in ST… it was impressive. I’ll find that book and provide a reference for y’all.
Lets not even mention the fabled “Prime Directive” that EVERYONE conveniently forgets about when the time is right. Talk about cultural intolerance and inflated ego. Perhaps the Borg were right all along.
Nothing can beat the camp of the red alert shots in the original Star Trek. What great acting it took to weave from side to side and throw yourself out of your chair. And the camera work! Zooming in and out like that. Classic.
and I respond…
The post from Jab said it all for me… He claimed that shapeshifters was a reason for ST being better than SW, and I rebut that the redsuited guys (the Emporer’s guard, if you must) was a reason why SW was better. They have nothing to do with shapeshifting or Chief Odo, DUH.
If we were going to compare JUST MOVIES, I’d say Star Wars, only slightly, because Star Wars gets negative points for Phantom Menace and Wrath of Khan is way up there. But Star Wars never did TV so it’s really comparing apples and oranges.
How bout Trek vs Babylon 5, or Farscape (which is my current fave)?
I am sorry guys but this debate over which is better ST or SW is not nearly as good as the one we had many months ago. It was about the time that I registered so early 99.
Now we had some good debates then. Look it up and learn something.
How could anybody in his right mind prefer the (lesbian) women in STAR TREK to the voluptuous Princess Laeia Organa in Star Wars II (especially in that costume she wore, while captive of Jabba the Hut!
Okay, now there, I’d have to choose Baylon 5 over Trek because it had real character development; the spacecraft (generally) looked cooler and moved and behaved more realistically; the Shadow aliens were genuinely creepy (thank Harlan Ellison for his input in their design); and the visual effects are still superior to TV Trek. Also, I’ve met Joe Michael Straczynski (creator of 5) and can spell his name without looking it up!
I’ve seen only a few episodes of Farscape, but what I’ve seen looks pretty good.
