Why the hate for Elon Musk?

I guess I don’t understand why some hate Elon Musk. Yeah he is richer than god and is fighting taxes, no doubt he is full of himself, but…

He did start a car company that is better for the planet. He got people more interested in electric cars. When was the last car company started from scratch?

Space-X and Starlink. Many, many people will be able to get high speed internet anywhere. I may be biased, because I’m one of those people.

He has given many Starlink dishes to Ukraine. The one truck I saw looked like a 100 or more. All you need is 110v and about 30 minutes to get it set up. If you can plug it in and have reasonably clear view of the sky, you are good to go. It’s portable.

Needed to be done IMHO. SOMETHING needed to be done. He did it.

I think the turning point for a lot of people was that stupid shit with the submarine. Came into the scene saying he was going to build a totally useless submarine to rescue the cavers, was told it was useless and then threw a temper tantrum which culminated in him calling a guy a pedophile just for pointing out that the submarine was a stupid idea. Whatever he’s doing these days, can’t shake the memory of that childish tantrum just because someone dared tell him to sit on the sidelines and let the pros handle it.

Starlink has issues with cluttering space with a bajillion little satellites including fucking up astronomy. Supporters handwave this but I’ve seen plenty of articles that, no, it really is fucking things up and will only get worse.

I’ve heard that he basically bought Tesla out from other people who were the actual brains behind it but I’ll let someone more knowledgeable field that. It wouldn’t be wrong for him to have done so but it’s hard to give him visionary or technical credit in that case.

The whole stupid thing where he acted all aggrieved that he would be expected to pay taxes and ran a stupid-ass Twitter poll over whether he should sell stock and “Oh my god, I’d have to pay all these taxes, aren’t I a martyr?”

The Ukraine satellite thing is nice but only shows that no one is 100% worthy of praise or disdain. Basically, he’s done some good stuff but as a person strikes me as kind of a dipshit I’d rather not spend any time with.

Maybe because he’s a guy who started life on 3rd base and thinks he’s some kind of superstar for making it across home plate.

This isn’t to take away from his business savvy or work ethic; but it’s a whole hell of a lot easier to become a multi-billionaire when you started life as a multi-millionaire. Tell me he was born in a ghetto and ate dirt just so he wouldn’t starve to death, and I’d be a lot more impressed.

He may or may not do a good job running a car company that may or may not make good cars.

He, personally, is a colossal dipshit.

He acts like a really savvy businessman, and yet he hasn’t released a fragrance line called “Elon’s Musk”

Well, first of all, although he wrangled a way to get himself legally listed as a “founder” of Tesla, he did not actually start the company, and he drove out actual founders (Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning) after providing Series A (post-‘seed’) financing. Like much of his claimed accomplishments this has been subject to repeated revision until the story that he tells now scarcely reflects any actual history. He claims to have been intimately involved in every single aspect of the design of the Model S which is so risible to anyone familiar with vehicle engineering that it can be dismissed on the face of the claim but of course his adoring fans lap it up. (Musk has also had a continuing petty feud with Eberhard, denying him the first production Tesla Roadster that he was supposed to receive as part of his contract and widely disparaging his well-documented contributions to the early development.) The less said about the Cybertruck the better but Musk has been making pronouncements about how Full Self Driving would be available on Tesla cars any day now, going back to 2015, even though they’re still having basic problems with adaptive cruise control to the point of posing a significant hazard to occupants and others, a capability most other car manufacturers have managed to mature to a highly reliable state.

There are a number of electric car companies that have been “started from scratch”; many have failed as is typical with startups but a few are still making a go, as are established manufactures with the industry base and supply chains to produce electric cars in more than boutique numbers. The idea that Tesla is ‘saving the planet’ is something Musk has made a large meal of as enabled by the tech media loving him up but the reality is even if he built a Tesla for every US and European citizen the effect it would have on carbon emissions would be in a fraction of a percent, notwithstanding the embodied carbon cost in the manufacturing of new cars and that even his ‘budget’ Model 3 is still out of the price range of even most middle class Americans without subsidy.

Starlink certainly promises to provide high bandwidth access worldwide, but we’ll see how that goes once the system is taxed to anywhere near its planned capacity. Regardless of how well it works I fail to see how it can meet the necessary income to be fiscally viable even assuming users worldwide can afford the fees. What it really does is allow the US and other developed companies avoid having to treat internet access as a necessary utility like power and telephony, and make access to fiber optic lines a priority for rural areas even if it isn’t profitable. Of course, what happens when you have a large number of people dependent upon satellite internet suddenly experience a mass outage due to a Carrington Event-like geomagnetic storm or hacking/sabotage can be left to the imagination. This is notwithstanding the potential of thousands of satellites leading to a cascade impact failure (e.g. Kessler Syndrome) resulting in a denial of entire orbital azimuths and the problems that such a vast fleet of satellites will pose to ground based astronomy.

SpaceX has done a remarkable job of reducing costs in spaceflight and essentially revitalizing the commercial spaceflight industry, and I have to admit a degree of * schadenfreude* in ULA CEO Tory Bruno of admitting that they could cut their costs by ~50% in response to SpaceX winning EELV contracts (validating a study I worked on a couple of decades ago demonstrating essentially the same reduction) but despite trying to portray those developments as some kind of massive technological leap the Falcon 9 is actually a very conventional launch vehicle, and the reasons that other companies didn’t invest in developing reusability is because it didn’t make fiscal sense. Given that SpaceX has not driven launch costs—including its own—down by the originally claimed order of magnitude, and has never actually published a real listing of launch and refurbishment costs, I suspect this is still the case, although the advantage to reuse in terms of launch tempo may still make it worthwhile assuming continuing market demand.

The “Occupy Mars” nonsense and Elon’s febrile ramblings about using “Starship” to explore the Solar System is far less impressive, and I’m still waiting to see anything more than ‘renderings’ of the Lunar landing system that NASA has awarded them a $2.9B contract to provide. What they have done in Brownsville to the residents of Boca Chica and the impacts upon the adjacent wildlife preserves is another matter entirely, especially with the contradictions between their stated plans and what was submitted on their environmental impact statement suggests that Elon and SpaceX are less concerned about the environment and society at large that they advertise.

Of course, there is Elon’s habit of SLAPP suing anyone who disagrees with him, insulting and slandering people who point out his self-serving claims are bogus, the ongoing issues of harassment, discrimination, health & safety violations, labor-busting, and reported wastes at the Tesla Fremont facility, and his overall public displays of entitled billionaire douchebaggery even before you get to his constant squabbles with the SEC, and the Solar City debacle. Being the “world’s wealthiest person” winging about paying taxes, which having gotten a lot of recent attention, barely registers on the scale of things and is really just a symptom of a larger systemic problem with how very wealthy people can shield themselves from any responsibility to the nation that provides them with the educated labor force, infrastructure, and technological developments that enable them to build such wealth to begin with.

But hey, there isn’t any bad behavior that a few cheaply-bought publicity stunts can’t erase from public memory, amirite?

Stranger

If he did, his legions of gleeful supplicants would snatch it up, even if it smelled like fermented cat piss.

Stranger

I think it’s reasonable to say that Elon Musk “started” Tesla in the same sense that Ray Kroc “started” McDonalds. Neither was there at the actual founding, but it’s a reasonable argument that they deserve much of the credit for the company as it exists today.

Agreed on the rest of it, though. The primary reason people dislike Elon Musk is he’s a real jerk and full of shit on many things. When’s the last time he said that full self driving Teslas would ship this year?

Good answers. I forgot about the rescue submarine. That would be like a casual bike rider giving someone advice on a triathlon.

Also, the sheer number of Starlink sats that are already up, and the many to come, are a problem. And just dropping them into the ‘ocean’ when out of service isn’t so good. I guess I’m REALLY biased on that though. High speed unlimited internet is a life changer, literally, for myself. I’ve had a number of geostationary dishes. Been there done that for many, many years.

And I guess I have to try to balance the difference between millions, and millions of more people getting information (and what they can do with it), and the difficulties to astronomers. I’m not discounting the importance of understanding the universe, and what new ideas come from it though.

Billionaires concerned about taxes just pisses me and I think everyone off.

I really didn’t know that he started on third base. There are plenty of those. Though Bill Gates certainly didn’t, nor did most artists. Many of these, if I may, are visionaries, and mostly driven by… I don’t know. Some, like Van Gogh a little crazy.

Some managed to be in the perfect place at the right time. Oddly, I am going to compare the Beatles to many politicians. Though the Beatles actually have incredible talent.

Musical groups can change a lot in the world just as politicians or anyone.

Thank you for the response above, Jophiel and Ex-Tank.

It boils down the same as much “progress” – destroy a mountain range and poison the water for coal but justify it by saying “Hey, you need electricity, don’t you?” when much of the answer is “Doing it with less impact would mean less money for us”. Musk knows what the satellites are doing but he keeps throwing more of them up there because profit and wanting a lock on the space before there’s competition. Not saying you need to feel guilty about enjoying the internet but I can still think that Musk is being a selfish asshole about it.

That said, I don’t “hate” Elon Musk. I spend zero time thinking about Elon Musk unless someone else brings him up. When they do bring him up, I think some of the tech stuff is neat but have a pretty low opinion of him as a person. I wish that tech came from (funding or whatever) a better human being.

I think his covid denial was also an issue. He was his typical asshole self about the whole thing.

He’s also supportive of the trucker convoy.

Holy shit. I did not know that.

Good information all.

This is a strange side note, but COVID, and Starlink has allowed me and many, many others to work from home. I drive perhaps 1/4 as much as I used to. My car is not on the roads. I understand that’s not the norm. But many, many people are allowed to work from home. Mostly because of COVID.

Huh? Bill Gates is the son of a prominent lawyer father and banking industry mother that went to prep school and then Harvard. He’s a smart guy that works hard (so is Elon, for better or worse), but he had way more advantages in life than the average person.

I wish all billionaires were as driven to advance humanity as Musk. He’s a bit odd on twitter, but also on the spectrum which could explain a lot. The guy lives in a shitty house in a shitty area because he’s deeply involved in Starship development. People should admire that sort of drive, instead they’ll always find something to exaggerate to make him seem like an asshole.

I don’t think he started MS with 100 million though. I may be wrong.

Supposedly, it’s not true that he lives in a $50,000 house but instead in a $12 million, 8,000 square foot mansion owned by a friend. See this Wall Street Journal article.

Musk is one weird dude. I think he is part of some worthwhile things, and I assume he has had a hand in driving at least some of it. He’s also at times an asshole in inexplicable ways eg the whole submarine thing as just one example of many.

You only have to read this thread to see numerous examples of him being criticised for failing to achieve things - which is odd given that most of us fail to achieve things all the time but don’t hate each other for it. And yes he talks up his achievements and over-promises but so do most businesspeople (and they achieve less than Musk).

If you treat anyone like a superhero you will be disappointed but that doesn’t mean they don’t have good qualities. And anyone as wealthy as him is going to attract extreme envy bordering on hate.

He does just fine on his own.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/tech/elon-musk-twitter-coronavirus/index.html

Oh yeah, he was also cool with the Texas abortion laws. I assumed it was mainly because he was getting a sweetheart deal from Texas for his factory so he was keeping quiet but, with the GOP donations, etc I suppose it’s equally likely that he just thinks it’s dandy.

Most of us don’t constantly claim that we’re achieving things that we’re not actually achieving, though, and claiming credit for achievements of others. That crosses the line between “oh well, it’s not in mortals to command success” and “wow, what an annoying blowhard”.

Businesspeople splashing delusionally wrong and self-serving claims all over the media is a bit worse than mere “over-promising”. At the end of that path lies Mike Lindell.