I agree. But I’ve also not met a 6-year-old who doesn’t whine. My own 7-year-old is particularly obstinate in this case. She’ll whine and not tell me what’s wrong. The 9-year-old, not so much. She is more expressive and willing to talk. shrug They both were raised the same way; the younger just has that personality. It’s not limited to whining. Like if something is wrong with her and she’s legitimately hurt or something, she just internalizes everything and it takes awhile to get it out (or more often, for us to piece together.) Some people just are that way.
My 23yo. whines still, occasionally. I call her on it. Everytime.
Which turned into her calling me out when I whine.
The difference is I know it’s wrong when I do it and I’m pretty sure she does too.
There are times, let me tell you.
With my dying breath I would blow up a balloon for a grandchild’s birthday party. The only thing I want in this world is to be of use to my child.
Awww. That’s a nice thing to say.
Me too.
I guess here’s where we differ. I believe that my prime directive as a parent is to love my kid unconditionally. I will love my kid no matter what he does, “love” being defined here as action. If my kid murdered someone, I’d be the first to call the police, I would urge him to plead guilty and I would visit him every week in prison for the rest of my life.
There’s an interesting documentary, I think it’s on Netflix, called Far From the Tree. It’s by the guy who wrote Noonday Demon. Anyway, the documentary is about parents who had kids who were different from them in some difficult ways. There was the creator, who was gay with homophobic parents, there was a mother and her autistic son, there were parents of a child with Down’s syndrome (particularly interesting as the girl was intellectually advanced for her condition at a young age, and they kind of built their hopes and dreams beyond her achieving more than what her disability would seem to dictate, but in fact her growth stopped and they had to deal with that.) And then they had the parents of a child who, at about the age of 14, just out of the fucking blue murdered another child.
In every case, it seems to me the only option for a parent is unconditional love. I don’t know any other way of being. If the entire world turned against my son, even for a good reason, I would be the one person in his corner. That’s my job.
I think I feel so strongly about that because I was not loved unconditionally by my parents, and it would have been nice.
Also, the whole, “my job is to raise you to be a competent adult” spiel is something I heard every day of my life growing up to justify everything from abuse to neglect. To be sure, some things my parents did helped in that regard. If they hadn’t been so neglectful I probably wouldn’t have realized I could move out at 17 and take care of shit on my own.
Oh, I would still love them. And cry for them. And probably blame myself.
But I won’t visit my child in a prison.
The kid didn’t have to be banished. He could’ve chosen to stop whining and stayed at the table. Or he could’ve gone anywhere else in the house and done whatever he wanted. But instead, he learned that on his whim, he gets to dictate the dynamics of 6 adults and his sister.
And, as my sister told it, the cuddling did not improve his attitude and behavior. I don’t think it “punishment” to tell a kid that they don’t get to whine, cry, cause scenes whenever or wherever they want. I think encouraging self control is of value.
Like I said, this kid tends towards being a manipulative whiner. I don’t perceive that giving him more attention of exactly the sort he wants is the best way to help him develop traits and behaviors that will serve him well as he ages. But I’ve often said, each parent gets to fuck their kids up however they see fit! 
I agree. A 6 yo. should be in possession of some self-control, if all things are equal.
It sounds like he’s found that being a brat gets him extra attention. And, yes 6yo and as young as 3yo can and do manipulate adults. All the time.
Starts with bargaining to not eat a certain food, or bedtime tradeoffs. Quickly turns into defiant resistance to rules.
They learn bad behavior way more quickly than how to follow rules and norms.
(I’m only talking about children not on the spectrum or those without other challenges)
I don’t necessarily disagree with this - but unconditional love doesn’t require prison visits and certainly not every week. I’ve seen plenty of mothers (and wives and girlfriends - somehow, it’s never men) do the weekly prison visits - and it always affects other people. It affects the siblings who can’t participate in activities because mom spends as many weekends as she can taking an 8 hour bus ride each way to visit a child in prison or the grandchildren who rarely see grandma. It affects the mom who can’t take the travel anymore and upends her whole life to move near the prison. I love my kids - but I wouldn’t give up other relationships and my own life to visit one of them in prison frequently.
I read an article where the prisoner had his Mother taken off his visitor list because he was embarrassed for her to come see him. It caused him mental stress and he tended to get in trouble the weeks after she visited on Sunday, once a month.
Didn’t see the documentary, but it was a fantastic book. Very long and detailed. I learned a lot from it.
I’ve discovered that sometimes it’s the other adults who project too much attention towards their very young dining companions.
Commenting on their appetite, how they hold a fork, what they’re not eating, what they should try, come on just try one bite one bite you’ll like it. See how much Grandpa likes his Brussels sprouts. Be a good boy, my don’t you look all grown up Hey kid why are they doing this that the other?
Who could behave courteously under that kind of pressure with adults getting all googlely eyed side eyeing the whining kid who’d rather sit alone with her tablet than be subjected to the intensity of the adults.
I’d say let’s keep the conversation among the adults. Ignore the whiny kid his parents will intervene if necessary tyvm. And that includes dad getting up and walking away with the kid. Not a barked order to leave the room. That’s humiliating.
This is an excellent point. The only adults who should be commenting on a child’s table manners are the child’s parents, and it’s best if they can do so in private or at least quietly. I personally have sat through many meals listening to an adult whine or be unreasonably picky or fail to use their napkin, and no one ever lectures them about it.
Failure on parents if an adult can’t behave at a table.
Yes the parent of the unruly child should correct and teach. Other adults should mind their own business. Alas, people judge and criticize and point and laugh all the time.
Otherwise, why do we care?
Gerber could probably make a nice healthy kid chow. Put a bowl in the corner. Pour the chow and let 'em at it.
Social, human norms are, we sit at a table, eat as a group and do it so people won’t be grossed out or snicker.
Some people are better at it than others. Some people give no shits and do as they please. Guess who gets invited to dinner?
For adults I’d say unless they were raised by wolves that ship has sailed and the onus is on the adult individual to step up their game regarding table manners and other general niceties in public. They may not have been taught but they can learn.
That’s the hope.
I’ve seen some seriously unmannerly peeps eating in public.
I cringe and look away.
My bunch ain’t perfect. We’re still in training on some points.
I know you were all dying for more details! But just got back from another bike ride w my sister, and I asked for more details. (We bike together 6-8 hrs a week and REALLY search for things to yak about!)
The family had moved recently, so that is admittedly a source of stress for the kids and parents. At the table, the 6 yr old was saying (“whining” in my sister’s words) that he wanted to go back to his old room in their old house. The father told him in very calm tones that that was understandable, change is hard, everyone was getting used to new things, but it was just never going to happen that he was going to be able to go back to his old room. In my sister’s opinion, it was a perfect example of how to deal with the situation.
Then the kid started saying he wanted to eat pumpkin pie - his favorite. Grandma had brought 2 pies, knowing it was his favorite, so there would be plenty of leftover. Dad said there was plenty of pie, but it would be served after everyone had eaten their meals, and after everyone had taken a little walk - as was their yearly tradition. Again, my sister was impressed with with the calm way her sone handled it.
Kid will be 7 in Feb. He had eaten a decent amount of the meal, so it wasn’t like he was refusing to eat anything other than dessert. When he kept asking for pie (again - “whining” in my sister’s words), the father said he could be excused and could watch TV in the family room. There was no “barking” of “if you are going to cry…” as I initially said.
At that point, the mom said the kid needed a cuddle. The kid sat on her lap clinging around her neck and whimpering, and did not stop until pie was brought out (without people getting to go for a walk.).
So, in the kid’s defense, there was the recent stress of having moved. OTOH, as I noted, my perception - and my wife’s and my sister and BIL’s - is that the kid tends to be whiny and manipulative. And there is the added issue of the 2 parents not being on the same page as to how to handle it.
I think - using the “raising adults” distinction offered above, this would hav been an opportunity to stretch the kid towards better being able to adult, rather than entirely reverting to babying. But many folk would say I was too strict and inflexible as a parent. My wife and I are both lawyers. I guarantee before our kids were 6 they understood the concept of “time, place, and manner restrictions.” As well as the idea that, “If you want something, whining is the surest way to guarantee you AREN’T going to get it!”
Oof, I was with you until you used my pet peeve word. People use that word predominantly when they want to blame someone else for their reactions to someone’s behavior. I have a friend doing this right now as his relationship with his mother implodes, about how she manipulates him into losing his temper, and no, actually, we’re always responsible for how we respond to anyone, no matter what they are doing.
And it’s especially wrong to describe a child as manipulative. However that kid is behaving he is not responsible for the behavior of adults.
But otherwise, point taken.
I, for one am happy you explained more.
But, seriously a 6yo? Hanging on to his Mother, whining like an infant and dictating when the traditional walk was taken?
Nope.
He would’ve gotten NO pie at my house. Stress over a move is small potatoes.
If he was ill or had bad news, like a cancer diagnosis, I may have given him a pass.
They are gonna have rough time with that boy in a few more years.
My middle daughter tended toward whining and being moody. She was a mere infant when her bio-mom was killed. So it was understandable she had bonding issues.
By 6 she was taught(by me) to how to deal with those feelings and was able to eat at table and express her problem if she was feeling emotions about to surface.
She continued to be moody and slightly contentious through her teenage years. I continued to reinforce the earlier lessons about speaking her problem so I could address it instead of whining and moping. I got loads of roll-eyes and “oh, Ma”
In the end she grew up a perfectly competent adult. Raising her own children.
She can still be moody. It’s her way.
She would/does help me to the extreme.
I couldn’t be happier about it.
Oh, Spice. People manipulate people all the time.
Kids are people.
They learn really early how to push buttons. And get what they want.
It’s how the Adult reacts where the problem is
The thing is the Adult in the room needs to control their own behavior. Curb any idea that the kid is doing it because they’re mean or awful or criminal.
The kid is being human.