Don’t you think there’s a stigma attached to a boy saying he doesn’t want sex? Or didn’t like it? Or was forced into it by a woman, esp. one that others perceive as hot? This article describes it pretty well. Thus, it’s hard to know how boys really feel about sex with their teachers.
The sheer weight of people posting in this and the other thread that no boy would be damaged by such a thing, or not consent to it, and therefore there is not crime or it should not be a crime, sort of proves my point. People can’t conceive of the idea that a 14 year old boy might not want to fuck his teacher, but once it happens, has to act like he did want it, loved it, etc.
And while the sex may be as consensual as sex with a minor can be, the emotional aspect of the relationship is very likely to be damaging to the boy. He already has a relationship with this woman, which has clear boundaries and a well-defined power dynamic. Turning that sexual is bound to have negative psychological affects on an emotionally immature kid. Even if the sex is fantastic, there are other considerations here.
There were some teachers I would happily have fucked when I was a teen. I fantasized about it with a couple of them. A lot. They were hot. I don’t believe that it would have fucked me up to have sex with them in the form of a one night stand or three. I dunno about a relationship.
This is probably why guys don’t get all that worked up about female teachers doing boy students. We all know we wanted it with some of our teachers when we were kids. It’s hypocritical of us to call for the imprisonment of women for giving other kids exactly what we wanted as kids. So, this isn’t villainy or callousness. It’s not being hypocrites.
You are aware that teenage girls also often fantasize about sex with grown men? I assume you therefore don’t embrace the double standard Mosier and others in this thread are so comfortable with? And some of us guys also wanted to have sex with our male teachers. I assume nobody in favor of this woman fucking her students would have any problem if the student was gay, right?
What if the woman were a nutcase who kept pressuring you for sex after the first couple of fun times? Who kept calling you and posting messages on your myspace? Who used her greater experience and status to manipulate you and mess with you? Who showed up at your house after she was arrested for screwing you?
If you read the stories about these women who screw their students, these are not one night stands or casual sex. They get caught because of the level of their involvement. They actually seem to have “relationships” with these boys, which tells you something about their emotional health.
That’s why these protestations that you would not have been damaged by it if it happened to you ring false. If it happened to you, it very likely wouldn’t be what you fantastized, a secret, hot fuck on a desk and then nothing but knowing looks for the rest of the year. The evidence suggests ongoing involvement with a mentally unbalanced woman who has little regard for her own self-preservation. Those factors tend to tip the scales in the direction of less fun and more fucked up and damaging.
This is all part of, IMHO, the extended teenagerhood that is currently gripping the US (and maybe the rest of the West, I have no idea). Large parts of this are benign… video games that are specifically designed for and marketed to adults? Great, no problem. But some aspects, such as Helicopter parenting and 25 year old teachers who identify more with their students than with their students parents can be a problem.
I think, however, this is the subject for a whole 'nother thread.
Like I said, a real can of worms. I used to share your opinion, simple predation by the older person. I still see the logic in preventing older people from preying on younger ones, especially in the case of the sort of guys who prey on younger women not because they are emotionally involved with younger women, but because they figure they are an easy source of pussy.
Still, I think there may be something to this male sense that predation doesn’t work so well on them. I haven’t thought it through yet. I will think on it some more.
I think there are a lot of assumptions that the girls always need therapy too. I’m not advocating that this be an accepted practice even if the female is not traumatized but to insist that there is permanent psychological damage or assume therapy is always needed in every instance of this type is going too far.
This doesn’t mean that the adult is not wrong just sometimes things turn out okay without, “the omigod, you must be suffering greatly because of this.”
Do you think a 14 year old boy who avidly wanted to fuck his teacher would have fewer problems with a female teacher who was just looking for an easy source of cock with no emotional entanglements? I bet they’d be less likely to be caught. Is it impossible that these boys also want some emotional connection? You don’t think they’d get attached or are already attached in some way? Esp. to someone they admire, whose approval they crave, and who they have to see on a daily basis?
The fact that these women are clingy, self-destructive psychos who abuse their power contributes to the predation/abuse factor beyond the basic sex as predation issue. That’s where I’m coming from with this issue. Anyone who’s had a relationship with a clingy, self-destructive psycho can extrapolate to how bad that would be in a teacher/student situation when the student is too inexperienced and emotionally immature to handle it.
A lot of the women in the links are far from butt-ugly and could easily get sex from a man just by walking into a bar. I don’t think they’re looking for sex per se as much as the power (read: control) sex with a teenager can give them. Back in the day, when kids were automatically wrong/lying, the parent would have probably taken the teacher’s word on just about anything, so she could have lied her way out of anything. She can threaten to fail the boy, land him in detention or suspension, turn friends against him, and more.
Age of consent varies from state to state, but it’s somewhat arbitrary. I think it’s interesting, for instance, that an 18 year-old is “an adult” and can fight and die for this country— but not “an adult” to consume alcohol in many states. Likewise, some 14 year-olds (male or female) might be mature enough for sex, since that was the norm a few hundred years ago anyway, while others aren’t nearly ready. All that said, the law is the law, and the ethics of teaching are there for a reason.
People react differently to the pairings: male teacher/male student, male teacher/female student, female teacher/female student, and this. But it’s all the same law being broken. There’s too much power on the teacher’s side, the child is too young to know what he/she’s doing, and without a parent’s knowledge you can be sure it isn’t kosher.
Although I hear in some locales a girl would be “an adult” as far as securing an abortion without parental notification.
Are you trying to play the “Rule of the Most Offended” with me?
Willing participants are not rape victims. They may be legally defined as such to do their minor status and our current (read: Modern era) belief that children are incapable of making decisions until they reach the magical moment at age 18 where reality suddenly changes. In the past and in other cultures, the dividing line between childhood and adulthood is drawn at very different points.
I myself had several teachers that I would happily have fucked the hell out of when I was 14, and I in no way would have considered myself damaged by it. I also had quite a number of teachers I would have laughed at if they had suggested it. Not every 14 year old is incompetent to make their own decisions, nor should we necessarily treat them as being so.
If I had a 14 year old child who had sex with his/her teacher, my first consideration would be WHY. Barring coercion, my next concern would be their own culpability for the act, not blaming everything on the teacher. Hell, if the cause was mental coercion, although I’d still be going after the teacher, I’d have some serious issues with my child and their inability to take the matter to ME or to some other authority figure before giving in. Because I’d see that as a serious warning sign that the child was going to have problems with this same kind of thing as an adult beyond my control, and I’d want to deal with it before it became a destructive life pattern.
Personally, since I grew up in a place where age of consent is much lower (14), the fact of “OMG, she’s fucking kids!” when the students are 14 and up is not what bothers me (similar if the genders are reversed). What bothers me is what Rubystreak has mentioned about the power dynamics of such a relationship (not to mention the teacher’s craziness).
C’mon, in some workplaces intraoffice relationships are discouraged between boss and subordinates, and these are all (legal) adults. I think a teenager would be at a great disadvantage in a teacher-student relationship. Therefore, I think that type of relationship should be prohibited.
So yea, I wouldn’t be squeaked out if a 14 (and up) teenager (whatever gender) has sex with any adults (whatever genders).
And again, in this particular case, the woman was not only the teacher, but also the teacher of special needs kids, who are probably even more at a disadvantage (not to mention unable to understand things at the same level as their peers). That is fucked up.
Those hot teachers that want young meat? Why don’t they wait until the students are no longer their students? Why don’t they look at other young boys in their neighborhood that are not in the school they teach?
And I swear I would really like to smack the male who believes that 14 year old girls don’t fantasize about sex with older males, or who thinks that all 14 years old guys are really more mature than girls.
Think about one of those teachers. Now think about how different she would have to be from the person you trusted as your teacher to take a giant step across all the taboos, the social contract, morality, and her own self-preservation, to actually fuck you. Now, can you say with certainty that you could have had an affair with that person at 14 and there is “no way” that you could have been damaged by her? How can you say that with absolute certainty as you have?
The above is blaming the victim. The teacher is the adult and the authority. I find it extremely hard to believe that a person could be a functioning teacher and not be able to realize that screwing a 14 year old student is a huge mistake and then not do it. A 14 year old, as almost every male in this and other threads has testified, has no such sense. Yet you would place culpability on the 14 year old, and you would question why he kept it secret from you. Huh.
A> I can, because I know myself. You cannot, because you don’t know me.
B> No, your path is victim worship, mine is personal responsibility. I’m assuming that my kid has some basic intelligence and ability to deal with life, so I would have to question how the kid allowed the situation to reach that point without doing the things I most certainly would have taught him/her long before that point.
It isn’t about blame or guilt, it’s about knowledge, learning and responsibility.
Yeah, the sheer weight of people suggesting that no boy would be damaged is unbelievable… Well it would be if anyone, anyone at all, had suggested that.
My biggest issue is the fact that some people seem to think that a boy would be automatically damaged by getting pussy for the first time before they reached some magical arbitrary age limit. That just isn’t so.
And you know exactly how it would go down, even though it didn’t happen, and the people you wanted to fuck would have to be radically different from who they are to do it… yeah. OK. It’s not about knowing yourself. There’s another person in this equation, and that person is a nutcase. I don’t know how many different ways I can say it because no one wants to hear it.
What the fuck? I think you are rather divorced from reality, in this particular instance. Thinking the adult is the culpable party when a student fucks a teacher is not a radical idea nor is it victim worship. Yes, the boy might want to fuck. It’s the adult’s job not to fuck the kid. The lack of willpower and discernment of teenage boys is legendary. But me saying so, and saying the adult should be the one to show good judgment, is victim worship? No.
You used the word “culpability,” not me. You do know that the word means “worthy of censure; blameworthy.” If the kid was in a “mentally coercive” situation and didn’t tell you, you would think he was lacking basic intelligence and the ability to deal with life? You wouldn’t think he’s a conflicted teenager in a fucked up situation and he’s not going to tell his dad? After all, if she’s hot and on some level he wanted to fuck her, and it turns out to be way more than he bargained for, as a man he’s supposed to do what? Admit it to someone who can guarantee there’s no way he’d have been damaged by fucking his hot teacher?
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that this conversation with you is going nowhere because you don’t even realize how offbase your position is.
And it would be unbelievable if anyone, anyone at all, had suggested that.
It does seem that age of consent laws roughly coincide with the person being in a position to deal with the consequences of sex. Like being able to be gainfully employed so that he can support his offspring. If we want to teach kids “knowledge, learning and responsibility” then how about teaching them to wait to have sex until they have the capacity to deal with the results?
Huh. Good to know. How does Canada differ in its prosecution of teachers who screw students? Or doesn’t it?
Also, the rest of my point still stands, don’t you think? A good lesson to teach boys is not to fuck unless you can deal with the consequences. That’s obviously not a popular lesson around here, but if we’re going to pop off about personal responsibility, it seems a relevant concept to mention.