Wolverine was dopey -- X2

Cafe Society
1

My biggest problem with Wolverine was that he was kind of dopey. The way the script was written plus the way Jackman acted… wasn’t quite right.

To illustrate how Wolverine should be:

When Logan, Rogue, Bobby, and Pyro get onto the Blackbird in Boston: He storms in, demands to know who the hell Nightcrawler is, intimidates Nightcrawler before he ever pays him any more attention than that, and pretty much has everyone responding to him in a vaguely subservient way. Logan is a forceful personality.

Logan arrives at the mansion, Scott throws keys at him and Logan smirks ruefully? Logan should have had let it be known that Scott just did something stupid.

I think the scene should have played out with Scott coming down the stairs, getting Jean, and leading her away. The fact that he’d choose to do that instead of having a dick-waving moment with his rival would’ve framed Logan’s character in a much more powerful light.

I definitely thought Bobby should’ve been intimidated to meet him, considering how much Rogue cares for him, if not because of the stories she could tell about him. It didn’t seem right that Logan ignored the frosty handshake.

Something that really bothered me is after Logan’s eyes turn stone and he screams like an animal as he sticks the soldier to the fridge. He then turns quietly to Bobby and asks, “Are you alright?” Maybe he could turn the berzerker rage on and off, but adrenalin? I thought that anyone who’s been around fighters before/during/after a match would’ve heard a viciously hollered, “You okay?” that was more of a statement than a question.

And when Logan gets on the plane at the end, when Jean asks him if he’s alright, and he says, “I am now.” What the hell? The charisma of Logan’s character is that he’s a tortured individual. Logan takes one for the team, invalidates his life’s quest, and he’s perfectly adjusted to it? Maybe he should have said, “No.” then brusquely push past her.

Still, despite these things that struck me as dopey, I still enjoyed Wolverine and the movie. I was especially impressed by the cinematography, like when Stryker enters Cerebro at the mansion and when Mystique rises to her feet as the door to the spillway control centre is opening. There was also a shot of a large tunnel whose ceiling connected to other tunnels going diagonally. The characters ran through the main tunnel and green light was being cast down from the ceiling tunnels, leaving green spotlights on the bottom left of the main tunnel. It just struck me as such a strong visual and an amazing moment in cinematography for a live-action comic book.

Oh, I thought Jean’s death was kind of idiotic. Didn’t seem like there was really a team of capable super-heroes in the plane. I would have preferred to have them realize Jean was outside, the occupants of the plane rush to save her, she locks them in, tells them to take off, they keep trying to save her, Scott orders them to take off, they look at him, stunned, he replies something to indicate that he has all the confidence in the world that she can save them all and herself because she’s just that damn good, they accept this, take off, and Scott watches in horror as she dies. Then Logan could blame Scott, which provides an emotional hook to X3.

Still, one of the best damn action movies ever. Many times I thought Brian Singer was the right person to give insane amounts of money to for a movie. Everything was handled perfectly, so many plotlines were woven with precision; there were no threads that just trailed off, they were all dealt with; Pyro’s conversion was subtley done (most movies would’ve had his eyes flash with anger after being admonished by Xavier in the beginning, at which point the audience knows exactly what’s going to happen some time in the next two hours); moral ambiguity and strange bedfellows abound. Exciting, to boot.

2

I was extremely disappointed that not once during the movie did Wolverine utter his trademark, “Ayyyyyy!” with thumbs-up gesture.

3

And they should have included at least on scene where he smaked the jukebox to make it play!

–CoffeeGuy

4

See, this is what I’m talking about. Here’s another Wolverine fanboy who can’t understand why Wolvie isn’t the baddest motherfucker on the planet having everyone piss their pants at the sight of him. That’s because… he isn’t.

Wolverine is pretty damn intimidating when he gets worked up but in day to day conversations he just comes across as brusque and irritating, which is how Cyclops responded to him as being (much the same as how he would’ve in the comic IMO). As for the whole attack scene at the school it struck me as Wolverine being conscious of the fact that he has people to take care of (Prof. X left him in charge, remember) and his being able to rip people up and then calmly check on his wards was a scary level of control that showed how capable of a fighter he is. I thought they got Wolverine down pat for the movie.

5

I love Hugh Jackman. My only complaint about Wolverine is that Jackman is too damn tall. I picture him to be short and extremely muscular. Jackman is tall and lean.

6

I like Wolverine better when the writer has him show some compassion and self-discipline. Too many writers make him degenerate into a berserk “Snickt-Bub-Snickt-Bub” caricature. He may be a badass killing machine when needed, but fundamentally, he is one of the good guys.

Oh, and regarding Jean Grey’s “idiotic” death:

She’s not dead. They are setting the stage for the Dark Phoenix storyline. It looks like they are going to substitute Stryker’s group for the Hellfire Club. Or maybe Stryker will be the White Bishop.

7

The problem is that you’re thinking of Wolverine as having the background that the character in the comic book has, with all the martial arts and Yakuza and hunting people and killing them kind of background. They haven’t established yet that the movie Wolverine has that in his background, so it’s inappropriate for him to act that way.

I agree, however, that Cyclops is really setting himself up for a fall, always playing the stoic, wooden leader type who’s in charage because he’s in charge. He has little or no leadership skills, doesn’t inspire anything in anybody, and doesn’t seem to be much of a team player. Wolverine, on the other hand, is okay getting levitated by Jean & Storm, letting Bobby cool off his drink, pass himself off as a Professor, etc., in order for the team to succeed. Cyclops is very much a one-note character, which makes sense, given the nature of his superpower.

8

I’ll side with Asylum on this. Wolverine is not Batman. (Of course, one could argue that Batman isn’t Batman, but that’s besides the point :))

Wolverine respects Scott. Scott respects, and perhaps is slightly but not overly intimidated by Wolverine. Wolverine has eyes for Scott’s girl. Of course Scott’s going to try to play alpha male, and Wolverine is going to egg him on.

9

Apparently, some of you fanboys are confusing Wolverine with the Punisher or the Terminator or some other soulless killing machine with no personality.

And thank you so much for including a spoiler warning in the thread title for those of us who haven’t seen the movie yet.
Oh, that’s right, you didn’t!:eek:

10

The thread title is “Wolverine was dopey – X2.” From this, a reasonable person might deduce that the ensuing thread would be about the character of Wolverine, as portrayed in the movie X-Men 2, being interpreted as something of a dope. A further second’s thought would lead a rational being to assume that this thread would therefore include reasons and examples of said behavior.

I got the impression that he was a bit intimidated, although it came across more as jealousy. When Wolverine pulls up on the motorcycle and Rogue’s face lights up and she runs off, Bobby got sullen. When introduced, he was very protective and territorial. Perhaps most telling was the scene in the car when escaping the mansion, Rogue returns Wolverine’s dogtags and Bobby was burning a hole in the back of his head.

I don’t think it natural to presume that Bobby should automatically fear Wolverine. Sure he’s a badass, but the mansion is full of badasses.

And the same applies to Wolverine brushing off the handshake. What’s so abnormal about a minor display of mutant power in a place like the X-Mansion? As to its purpose, he seemed to take a small amount of amusement in Bobby’s bravado and territorialness. If he had his eyes on Rogue, I’m sure it would’ve been different, but I think he realized it was just an insecure teenager trying to protect his “turf” from a perceived, though non-existent, threat.

I thought it a bit odd too that he went from psycho rage to caring babysitter so easily, but it’s plausible. Just because he’s raging doesn’t necessarily mean that he has forgotten all of his responsibilities. I suppose the reason he asked Bobby so quitely was because he realized there were other bad-guys about. He did scream when he stuck the guy, but that could have been interpreted as a death cry ? by the others and ignored more easily than a shouted “Are you alright?!”

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Remember the hysteria from the first movie about “you NEVER use your powers against another mutant.” I know Mystique was mixed up in that, but that’s still the stance that Xavier took, and Rogue had to borrow Logan’s power to save her own life. I would think that Bobby’s display would have been frowned upon for that reason. Seems like they backed off from that edict even in the first movie though, I guess to avoid having to confront the issue wrt beating up Magneto’s crew.
Regarding mbh’s spoiler.

[spoiler]I hadn’t heard anything about X3 (dunno if this was leaked ahead of time, I’m saying), so the closing shot of X2 really shocked me. I look forward to seeing how that goes, although it’s already clear that it’s going to have little if any relation to the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix story arcs from the books, and may not even make much sense.

It also occurred to me, though, that it was so subtle that it could have been missed by anyone who didn’t know the books. Is it possible that that shot was just another shout-out to the fanboys in the theatre, of which there were many in the movie, and there will be no Phoenix? Or has that been confirmed? Hard to believe, too, that they’d do a third one without Famke Janssen, particularly after her stellar (and hot… hot… hot) performance in this one.[/spoiler]
So, anybody have links for the other X2 threads that I know are out there? I can’t figure out a good way to search for them and I haven’t had much success turning anything up. Anybody have a link handy?

12

There are at least 3 x-2 threads on the front page right now, I’d give you links, but the hamsters don’t seem to have been fed tonight.

13

They are splitting up into teams but Wolverine wants to hunt Stryker, so he he just leaves without telling anyone. He was on the team that was going to Cerebro. You know… WHERE STRYKER WAS! Instead he uses his uses his great tracking skills to go where Stryker isn’t. Stryker comes up from behind him after leaving Cerebro.

14

Asylum wrote:

Nope. That would be Spider-Man.

My favorite aspect of the character is that he tends to become a big brother to young mutants.

15

White Lightning:

The bird shape on the water at the end was just the end of a bunch of foreshadowing going on throughout the movie. There’s the bit in the museum with Jean unable to block out others’ thoughts, then the conversations about her having trouble lately with her powers, then the huge jump in her telekenetic ability accompanied by a fiery red glow in her eyes and an aura surrounding her as she diverts millions of tons of water around the plane without seeming strained. Finally, she sacrifices herself to save a planeful of X-Men in a damaged Blackbird? This is definitely a set up for the Dark Phoenix saga.

16

There is nothing dopy about Hugh Jackman in hip-huggers. Nothing!

17

Ah, but go back and read that again, Spidey didn’t beat the X-Men, he got the drop on them and while they were still surprised roughed them up enough to get away. I always thought that that was a prime example of what Spidey’s capable of with his combination of powers.

However, regardless of what’s written at the top of that page, it struck me as self-evident that if Spidey had stuck around he would’ve gotten his ass handed to him as soon as the X-Men got organized. That fight only lasted, what? Five-ten seconds?

18

Asylum wrote:

Your explanation is contradicted by the pages in question. They’re clearly co-ordinating their attacks to the same extent that they ever do.

  1. Wolverine misses Spider-Man and Colosus steps in to intercept.
  2. Colosus gets webbed in the face, and Rogue moves in, and gets webbed to a beam. Ororo considers her move, but she is constrained by the limitations of the arena, so Nightcrawler announces that he’ll handle it.
  3. Spider-Man easily takes care of Nightcrawler. (Who says, “His strength–! His speed – unbelievable! He is awesome!”)
  4. While Spider-Man is busy with Nightcrawler, Wolverine takes the opportunity to run up behind him, but Spider-Man detects him via Spider Sense, and bats him away.

They were clearly co-ordinating their attacks, but it didn’t help.

The only thing getting the drop on them bought Spidey was that he didn’t have to face 'Fess right away. He also knocked out Cyclops in that maneuver, but Cyclops didn’t stand a chance of hitting him with his eyebeams.

The opposite was self-evident to the X-Men. Nightcrawler said, “He’s getting away!” and Wolverine said, “We’re lucky that’s all he was trying to do! He really clobbered us! He made us look like fools–! Like amateurs!”

19

Asylum wrote:

Your explanation is contradicted by the pages in question. They’re clearly co-ordinating their attacks to the same extent that they ever do.

  1. Wolverine misses Spider-Man and Colosus steps in to intercept.
  2. Colosus gets webbed in the face, and Rogue moves in, and gets webbed to a beam. Ororo considers her move, but she is constrained by the limitations of the arena, so Nightcrawler announces that he’ll handle it.
  3. Spider-Man easily takes care of Nightcrawler. (Who says, “His strength–! His speed – unbelievable! He is awesome!”)
  4. While Spider-Man is busy with Nightcrawler, Wolverine takes the opportunity to run up behind him, but Spider-Man detects him via Spider Sense, and bats him away.

They were clearly co-ordinating their attacks, but it didn’t help.

The only thing getting the drop on them bought Spidey was that he didn’t have to face 'Fess right away. He also knocked out Cyclops in that maneuver, but Cyclops didn’t stand a chance of hitting him with his eyebeams.

The opposite was self-evident to the X-Men. Nightcrawler said, “He’s getting away!” and Wolverine said, “We’re lucky that’s all he was trying to do! He really clobbered us! He made us look like fools–! Like amateurs!”

20

Hmmm… I definitely only submitted that post once. It took a long time to go through, though.