Women's choices

Why do women not like nice men?

Not to make a broad generalization (or a generalization about broads) to cause a flame war or anything. But many women date awful men, time after time, until they finally either settle down with a nice guy, or marry a jerk,get divorced, and continue the dating/marrying jerks format.

Most women who marry or date jerks have nice guys available, and recognise that these guys are great and such, but still go for the assholes.

Why is that?

Just add water, it makes it’s own sauce!

Oh, Lordy. What a can of worms this is. You’re gonna get flamed for starting it, & I’m gonna get flamed for answering honestly, but here goes.

I’ve sure seen my share of assholes, & the problem seems to be that nice guys never say anything. Guys who are actually sweet, decent people go all wobbly-kneed at the thought of actually walking up to me & talking to me. & why not? Fear of rejection is a very powerful thing, & from what I’ve heard from my guy friends, some girls are just totally evil bitches who get some sick pleasure out of shooting guys down. On the other hand, arrogant assholes already “know” they’re God’s gift to us chicks, so it’s easy for them to walk up to us & talk. Now, girls are just as insecure as guys, so we think if you don’t talk to us, you aren’t interested. (We don’t read minds any better than y’all do.)

The solution that I’ve come up with is to approach guys & start things myself. Though, actually, when I met my current SO, I was awed by how cute he was that I couldn’t say anything. I got his attention by fishing the ice cubes out of my drink & throwing them at him. Weirdly enough, it worked, though I don’t necessarily recommend it as a dating strategy.

I have dated a couple of jerks, but their jerkiness was well-disguised under a veneer of charm, at first. When the jerkiness factor made itself known, I generally headed for the hills.

Trouble is, most Nice Guys are either married (you lurking out there, Ike?) or gay. So I have a complement of platonic male friends who have been snapped up by other guys or gals, leaving Baby with the dregs.

And I am a firm believer that beggars should indeed be choosers. As a wise old auntie once told me, “It’s better to be alone than to wish you were.”

The problem, I think, is not that women don’t like Nice Guys and always date Jerks. It’s that we don’t like Weenies, and try our best to date Real Men.

The trouble is Real Men (self-confident, not needy, able to take care of themselves) are easy to convince with Jerks (obnoxious, manipulative, couldn’t care less about us) while Nice Guys (quiet, laid back, maybe a bit too shy) Weenies (needy, passive-aggressive, and immature).

Is that enough pigeon-holing for everyone today?

“I think he said ‘Blessed are the cheesemakers.’”


Boy, I hit that “post” button way to fast these days.

That should be: "while Nice Guys . . . are easily confused with Weenies . . . "

“I think he said ‘Blessed are the cheesemakers.’”

For the past few months, I’ve been quasi-dating a Gentleman. Yes, that’s with a capital G. Holds open doors. Refuses to let me pick up the tab (although he will let me split a check). Unlocks the passenger side of his car, opens it, waits until I get in, shuts the door, walks around, and lets himself in (and yes, I tried to unlock his door for him once, the first time we went out…his power locks don’t work anymore, and he has theft-proof locks that I actually tried to unlock with my bare hands…he chuckled at my futile attempt, and made sure I knew that he appreciated the sentiment). When I check my e-mail the day after we go out, I’m guaranteed an e-mail from him thanking me for the evening out.

It’s impressive. And it’s making me a better person…I pay much more attention to common courtesy now. He is a genuinely nice guy, with a devilish streak in just the right place. I don’t know how long he’ll be able to put up with ME, but that’s beside the point. Nice guys do exist. They are out there. They’re just incredibly difficult to find.

My theory is pretty unpopular, but here goes:

There exists in the female mind, due to social conditioning beginning in childhood, a lingering little weed of a thought that sex is A Bad Thing. Many women get over it; many do not. As a result, some women cannot feel “good” in a relationship unless they are miserable with it, in a sense silently punishing themselves through a male for being happy.

Like I say, this is not a popular theory. I have noticed through lo these many years of experience that expressing interest in a woman in a way that is “more than friendly” is a delicate balance; there is, somewhere, about a 10-second window where a guy has a chance at being a romantic interest. You miss the window, you wind up in the Friend Zone, from which no man has returned.

My greater question is, what’s this thing women have against dating/getting serious with friends? Obviously, if two people are friends, they get along; why not give it a whirl? Aren’t the odds of success and happiness better? Or is the ‘friend’ thing just a way of giving a guy the brush-off?

Fer pete’s sake, it’s not like the friendship is worth a hill of beans anyway if one person’s expected to deny his feelings.

Can’t explain it, but can tell you why it happened to me.

Husband 1 and Husband 2 started out like the description Drain Bead gave above. They were really able to hide their true colors until they were at the advantage (financially, I was emotionally dependent on them, etc. It’s very very hard to explain.)

I ended up being emotionally abused, then physically abused. The “bad guy” didn’t come out until after I was dependent on them. Emotional abuse is a funny thing, I think. The victim doesn’t even realize they are being abused until it’s over and the damage is done. At least it was that way for me. It’s unfortunate, but in my case, the physical damage IS permanent, and the emotional damage is probably permanent. And I’m only 33.

At this point in my life, I’m ready to give up on relationships altogether. I don’t have much hope of things working out between my current SO even as we speak.

Guys, I apologize. I meant to answer the question then dumped my problems on you all.


Max, male and female brains must be wired differently. I have several drop-dead gorgeous male friends, but I think of them as brothers–I’ve even shared a bed with one or two, with nary a naughty thought.

I always found the “omigod, I suddenly love you!” scenario on sitcoms highly unlikely. Like on Friends–excuse me, after all these years, Monica is just now attracted to Chandler? Would just never happen in real life.

And I might add, sex is only A Bad Thing if you do it right.

The late great comedian Bill Hicks had a song about this called “Chicks Dig Jerks.” Pretty much sums it all up.

When I met me wife (nine years ago), I was, one might say, an egotistical asshole. Not that I didn’t care about anybody else, I just cared more about myself and thought I had all the answers. Over the years, I’ve mellowed out a lot (I believe that this is called “maturing”). Before, if I wanted to go out, I just said, “I’m going out, and I’ll be home later.” Now I ask her if it’s ok with her and what her plans are, and call if I’m gonna’ be late and all that. Before I would call most of the shots. Now I consult her on almost all decisions we make. She didn’t seem to like my attitude before, but she certainly liked me as a man. Now she likes my attitude, but something is missing that used to be there (could just be that we’ve been married for eight years). She wanted me to give her more freedom and more input in the choices we made, but didn’t really like that freedom and input once she got it. I’m making this much more cut-and-dry than it actually is, but she did seem to dig me a lot more when I was a self-centered creep. I guess you just can’t win.

Gee – I like the nice guys, but the nice guys don’t like me. Could it be that I’m not attractive enough for them? Naaah … nice guys aren’t that shallow, right?

There are more men hung up on looks than women hung up on “bad boys.” It’s a tossup as to which is more shallow. Looking like I do, my choices, should I want to have a man, are to turn into a slut, a doormat or both. Nuts to that.

Catrandom, who has issues.

I spent most of my teenage and young adult years dating assholes. Then I met my ex, who was and is a genuine Nice Guy. I was thrilled to be dating him. He was everything a girl wanted. He was a great boyfriend, and a great husband.

So what was the problem? He was dull. Us wimmin (or at least, this woman) want a guy who won’t let us walk all over them, even if we say we do. My husband pretty much did anything I told him to do. He always wanted to please me. It got old.

Now I’m back to dating the assholes again, and although I’m miserable at times, I like it. I’m still trying to figure out exactly why I didn’t like being put on a pedestal by my ex. I sorta wish I could be happier with guys like him. But I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I can’t truly be happy unless my guy occasionally rears up and confronts me on stuff, and doesn’t let me run the show all the time.

It does seem that way,that women like notnice men. It is usually that way with girls.(cessandra excepted). Somehow,it’s because they seem exciting(!) But the headaches are not worth it,I know.

The last time this came up, the answers from women were that they date bums/creeps/artists/musicians if there is some excitement that could happen for a short while. Then find the more boring guy to settle down with. Some women chose to support the artist/musician if he had some qualities to make a good dad.

I like the best of both worlds. I love a man who opens doors for women (not just me), who will pitch in around the house if needed, who spends time with the kids, who doesn’t mind running over to Mom’s in the middle of the night cuz she locked herself out of the house (a whole ‘nuther thread, I’m tellin’ you). A man that feels safe, and IS my comfort in the storm.

Because of my “kinks” I also like a man who’s dominating in the bedroom, who makes the final decisions in arguments, who refuses to let me walk all over him.

I finally found this man, but not until I spent years dating/marrying the arrogant, charming, not so nice guys. I could never figure out why it always ended bad. It took a long, long time for ME to figure out what I wanted.

I still like the not-so-nice guys. I think they’re a hoot to flirt with. But I also like turning to my husband and thanking him for being the one that married me and the one that puts up with me and the one that comes home every night.



So THAT’S what I’m doing wrong.

Love at first sight is like being hit with lightning, it ends too quick and too painful. - Louie
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I think it goes waaaay back. Genetically females (human and otherwise) want the best mate to provide for their offspring. At the time this instinct was evolving, a good mate was someone who was capable of hunting mammoths and defending the cave from attackers. These are no longer particularly useful skills, but the genes are still there.

Males (human and otherwise) are genetically programmed to have as many offspring as possible. Therefore men have a instinct to cheat on their mates and have sex with other women.

If we were all still pre-sentient animals, there would be no problems with all this. But now that we are an intelligent species, we realize the long-term consequences of blindly following our short-term instincts. Women know that they will have a better relationship if they choose men for their social skills rather then their aggression and men know that a good relationship isn’t worth risking for a one night stand. However the instincts still exist and many women are rationalizing their desire for an alpha male (“Sure, he’s a little rough at times, but he’ll settle down after we get married”) and many men are rationalizing their desire for a harem (“It won’t hurt my wife if I screw a hooker at the convention because she’ll never know about it”).

That’s probably me you’re talking about. I’m married to a musician, and he’s staying at home & taking care of our children while I work the full-time job with benefits.

But there’s more to it than that. It all started because my husband happens to be a very nice man. Because he is nice, I decided to date him. Because he continued to be nice, I chose to marry him. He’s still nice, so now we’re having kids. Yep, I like nice guys. I like them alot. I dated buttheads in high school, and figured out what I don’t want. I ran across a few more as a young adult, and ditched them as quickly as I could. Then I spent a few years “questing” for a nice man. I found one. I’m happy. :smiley: