Worthless Piece of Shit Student

<Sarcasm>
And let’s condemn the kid and send him away to juvie hall for a couple of years for not considering the socio-political and religious effects of his prank, eh? Because we all know just how well equipped 14-year old kids are to make those kinds of judgements.
</Sarcasm>

Well, since no one else has volunteered that they personally might have pulled a few stupid and/or dangerous stunts when they were kids, I must assume that I am in a room full of people who were perfect kids to whom being stupid or careless was SO alien that they just know that any of those ‘bad’ kids are a big waste of space and should be locked up, right?

Our society is screwed up when it comes to children. First we spend years lecturing each other about the evils of physically punishing children, and parents get taken to court for spanking their kids, and then we turn around and adopt zero-tolerance rules that have kids expelled for giving a friend a tic-tac, and we want to send young teenagers to jail for pulling stupid pranks.

We’re going to raise a generation of confused, disturbed people, and it’s going to be our own fucking fault.

Hey, you can join me in the “Hazard to society” corner. If you wait a minute Cartooniverse can tell you what your beliefs are too.

Just got off the phone with a Sgt. in the Santa Cruz P.D. Investigations Division. He informs me of the following:

  1. Posession is a misdemeanor, HOWEVER since the child gave it to others, it’s a felony- the charge is called " Providing".

  2. It would be Providing even if it was alcohol, or some other abused substance that was not illegal like pot is.

  3. While they could try to make a case for Assault, the burden of proof would be much greater on the District Attorney and so that is not an avenue they would pursue in all likelihood. ( paraphrasing his words ).

I wasn’t wrong, but I wasn’t right either. They could go for assault but it would probably not stick. They’re going for lesser charges. I didn’t ask for specifics of the case past that point and in any event, they wouldn’t have given much more since it’s an open case AND it involves a minor.

At any rate, a prank it is not, unless we go around considering felony crimes to be pranks. We can do that, it just takes a bit of a moral adjustment- one I’m unwilling to make at this time.

As for the question just asked here- yeah, believe it or not, there ARE people who did not do those kinds of things when they were teenagers. People like me, who didn’t mess with his schoolmate’s body chemistries or commit acts of vandalism. ( sic ). When I was 14 years old, I was volunteering in a hospital every Sunday. There are people out there in the world who chose to do other things with their teenage years, and they turned out just fine. Just like you turned out just fine- it’s a different kind of fine, that’s all.

Sweet Jesus on a fucking biscuit! providing?
dont they recipients have to have some knowledge of what they are getting before its providing?
and they COULD charge him with assault?

W T F ?

theres no fucking way you can be telling me that when ALL kids are fourteen they have the kind of moral fibre or legal expertise to be able to tell what is a prank and what is a felony.
the kids a fuckwit. plain and simple. make him volunteer at a local hospital. (wait a minute. that seems to make people completely intolerant of the fact that some kids will do STUPID things, and should be HARSHLY punished, instead of FAIRLY punished.)

sigh when will they listen, and institue a “you are a fucking idiot” law. fuckers.

{Sigh} Urb, the culprit tricked his victims by tellling him they were brownies. He didn’t say, “Yo, dude; have some hash.”

{Sigh}

'Toonie, what do you mean by that? “A different kind of fine?”

I’ve been watching the rhetoric flying, here, and you seem to be flinging an awful lot of invective, containing an awful lot of assumptions about people’s motivations.

Why is it so difficult to accept that one can simultaneously believe that the action was a prank, and that it was stupid and fully punishable? I don’t see anyone arguing that its being a prank renders the conduct excusable. All it does is propose that the defendant lacked specific intent to cause permanent harm to the victims. Instead, the defendant was at least negligent and possibly reckless. That means a different sort of crime and a commensurately different degree of punishment.

Moreover, kids who do bad things often do turn out fine - not “different kinds of fine,” but totally, perfectly fine - particularly when the bad thing is the result not of intent, but of negligence or even recklessness. In a sense, it’s intensely irritating - those of us (like me, or you, 'Toonie) who did everything “right” as kids - stayed on the right side of the law, didn’t do drugs, didn’t hurt others (or risk hurting others) just for thrills - often end up, as adults, no different from those who did. Indeed, the crazy risk takers are often the ones who (if they don’t kill themselves or others first) end up with the most toys, precisely because they’re risk takers. Of course, the greater likelihood is that kids who do things wrong will end up disasters - but there are so many exceptions to that formula that for parents there’s no easy argument. You hope your kids look at the risk and go the other way - but for those who are determined to take the risk…it’s a nightmare for all concerned.

I’ll agree with you 100 %. There is no way a kid would know that. Heck most adults would not know it.

So…ignorance of law is the perfect excuse? I’ll just bet that this kid won’t be the first one to stand before a judge and tell him or her, " I didn’t know it was felony !" According to the officer I spoke to, in California posession is a misdemeanor.

Unless your parent or role-model is a lawyer or a law enforcement officer, I bet the average 14 year old doesn’t know the law. Moral fiber and simple knowledge are too very different things though, aren’t they?

Well, much to this dismay of many on this thread, it would appear that the felony charges will be reduced, if cartooniverse’s information is in fact, correct. Finally, someone is looking at this in a realistic way, rather than emotionally, with a “holier than thou” attitude. I would think that part of the reason is because there is no room in detention facilities for anything other than the most serious offenses.

And by the way, Monty (and those who agree with him), calling a kid a “worthless piece of shit” should be a crime. They have enough self-esteem issues as they develop without some stupid fucking adult judging them (when all he has is a one paragraph, newspaper article to go by). Correct them, guide them, and if necessary, rehabilitate them, but to discard them as trash, is sickening.

A mistake, no matter how big, doesn’t make a kid worthless. Otherwise, none of us would be worth very much. Yes, even you. I would be overjoyed to find out you are sterile. I fear I’m not that lucky.

Sounds like an opinion. Kind of like when I FUCKING CLEARLY LABELED MY OPINION AS SUCH in the OP.

Kindly explain how poisoning others is a way to work on one’s self esteem.

What I suggested, IIRC, is that 12 folks or a judge take care of it but in an adult court giving (a) that it happened in California and the California electorate has already passed into law requirements for certain crimes to be tried in adult court and (b) the culprit’s age (that being 14).

Television station website. Get the facts right.

Nowhere did I suggest discarding them as trash. I did suggest trial and incarceration.

Yes, I did refer to him as “worthless piece of shit.” But, you know, if he’d been 100 years old and not a student and pulled the same stunt, I’d still call him that. What you seem to have missed is that, IMHO, and the opnions of others here, fucking with people’s bodies is absolutely unacceptable.

This was not “a mistake.” It obviously was a crime and a pre-meditated one at that. That makes him a criminal. I maintain, given the bit I mentioned above, that the appropriate disposition of this particular case is adult court and incarceration in Juvenile Hall.

And yet, when I was growing up, I don’t recall committing the crime of drugging people. Odd how I missed that golden opportunity, ain’t it?

That’s pretty damned low of you, you cocksucking asshole.

Nor will I mention what I consider what would make the human race incredibly lucky at this very moment, IMHO.

Left out one thing:

And what about Cartooniverse and a couple of others in this thread who’ve agreed with me on this issue? Do you wish them to be sterile also?

Cartooniverse, you seem to want to pigeonhole children into the ‘good’ ones and the ‘bad’ ones. I’ve got news for you - it’s not that black and white.

Sure, when I was a kid I did some stupid things. I was a little pyro, and had plenty of ‘fun’ with firecrackers, homemade gunpowder, you name it.

But I’m also the kid who quit the football team after seeing my fellow team members kick a younger kid off his bike and laugh at him. I helped the kid back on against immense peer pressure, and quit the team rather than associate with the creeps. And lost my girlfriend to boot, who wanted to date a football player. I was always a champion of the weaker kids, standing up to the bullies who wanted to abuse them.

I was a good kid. I got good grades, I had all kinds of rewarding hobbies (ham radio, model airplanes and rockets, typical male kid stuff). And sometimes I screwed up. I tried pot, I skipped classes, I snuck out at night with my friends and caroused. When I got a car, I did some stupid things in that, too.

Adolescents are complex. They are subject to a lot of conflicting emotions and knowledge, and they lack the education and perpective to fully understand things around them. That’s why we have PARENTS, for god’s sake. And yes, sometimes kids step over the line and do things that indicate that they are beyond education and pose a danger to others, and they have to become part of the criminal justice system. If you can show me that this kid has a history of criminal acts that involve injury to others, I’ll agree with you that he should be tried as an adult. But if he’s a good kid with good grades and no record, involving the criminal justice system is way out of line.

Before you take a kid away from his parents, his friends, his role models, and stick him in some juvie hall or adult jail surrounded by criminals, and before you give him a permanent chip on his shoulder by meting out such extreme punishment, you’d better be SURE that there are simply no alternatives.

This prank doesn’t even make it onto the radar screen. Part of your problem here may be that you have bought into the demonization of pot and other drugs. Never having tried them yourself, you think that this kid did major damage to others, and exposed them to something horrible. But I’ve got news for you: Eating a brownie with a little pot in it will make you a little giddy, and give you a case of the munchies, and if you eat a lot it might even make you feel queasy and distort your perception a bit. But it’s no big deal, and you can distort your reality more by having a double latte’ on an empty stomach. And pot has NO known permanent side effects. None. It’s safer than aspirin.

BTW, I very clearly remember my grade 9 Christmas dance, because some kid spiked the punch bowl with alcohol and a couple of the teachers got drunk on it, to everyone’s merriment (including the other teachers - they tried to look outraged, but you could tell they were having a good time and didn’t see the harm). And the teachers would search you on the way in, and find a joint on probably one kid in ten. The teacher would just confiscate it and give the kid a lecture (and no doubt smoke the joint later - the teachers on joint confiscation detail were invariably the ‘hippie’ teachers). A friend of mine managed to sneak a joint in. When we asked him where he got it, it turned out to be from his parent’s ‘stash’.

I’m not condoning drug use, but most of us kids grew out of it, and society didn’t collapse around us. And I don’t think our generation carried any more drug or alcohol problems into adulthood than any other generation. You may think that spiking some brownies with pot is just on this side of murder, but it’s not.

Perhaps my perspective comes from growing up in the 1960’s and 1970’s, when ‘kids are kids’ was all you needed to say. If a kid got in real trouble in my school, the principle would give him the ‘strap’, which was a spanking on the hand with a leather barber’s strap. It hurt like hell (or so I’m told - the threat of it meant it almost never had to be used, and I never got it), but left no damage. Then the kid’s parents would come and get him, and he’d probably get another spanking at home. I’m firmly in favor of this.

If a kid did get caught doing something illegal by the cops, they would take him downtown, scare the daylights out of him by telling him what could happen to him if he didn’t smarten up, and then parents would come and get him, take him home, and administer the appropriate punishment.

Nowadays, the police get involved when little 6 year olds give a little girl a kiss, or when a kid comes to school with a pocketknife. And the school can’t physically punish the kids, and the parents don’t believe in it. So lacking those ‘big guns’, the only way they can get the message across to kids is through suspension, expulsion, and finally throwing up their hands and bringing the cops in.

None of this is good for the children. In my day, an expulsion was almost unheard of - exploits that would get you expelled were the stuff of legend, and stories would go around about the kid you heard about a few years ago who got EXPELLED because he did something outrageous. Nowadays, they seem to hand out expulsions right and left, and suspensions for bringing a nail clipper to school. This sends a message to kids that they belong outside of society, and creates little sociopaths.

It’s far better for the punishment to come from the children’s guardians rather than some faceless bureaucracy. And once the kid is punished, it’s important for him to be surrounded by people he loves and who love him, and be able to go back to school and try to forget he was ever that stupid, not to wake up alone in some detention center without parents, surrounded by other troublemakers, with his life changed forever.

uhm… yeah… what he said… (only with more use of the word fuck!)

yep. kids a fuckwit alright. whats your problem?
i will admit im not exactly crystal clear on this area of the law, and it does seem perfectly logical to extend providing to cover whether the victim knew or not (ie spking drinks, brownies, whatever)
im just surprised hes not being charged with a misdemeanor, such that it would involve being able to punish him properly, but nothing too serious it will fuck up his criminal record (isnt this sealed at this age anyway?)

AFAIK, the record is sealed if the case is disposed of in the juvenile system; it it’s in the adult system, it’s not sealed.

I don’t post much here and the last thread I wanted to have to post on is this one.

Sam Stone??? (not used to this format so I’m trying to remember your name and I’m really sleepy). I agree with everything you said except for this: if someone spiked my brownies with pot I would supremely pissed beyond belief to the extent that I would file a civil suit against the little bastard in order to make sure that everyone was perfectly aware of what a stupid little fuckwit he was. I would also get my guy friends to beat him up, but that’s just me. Personally, I’ve had plenty of opportunities to do drugs and I always passed-something held me back, although you’re right…at least he picked pot. I don’t have anything “against” pot, but as a result of passing the dutchie on the left hand side I don’t know if I have an allergy and even if I didn’t it would just make my blood boil enough that someone violated my personal space and trust to slap a huge civil suit on that little cunt’s head. That’s my body!! I decide what goes in and when someone makes that decision for me, I’ll take personal note of it and make him pay!! If you were the kid that occasionally caroused then I was the good kid in the bad kid group-the one that all the parents loved their little james dean-wannabes to hang out with…although I my own vices :slight_smile:

(end of referring to Sam Stone’s post) I think comments about people have potentially serious reactions, drugging without consent, the involvment of minors…all the important points people brought up are valid enough to warrant an expulsion, mandatory rehab and routine drug testing and a hell of a lot of community service. If it won’t teach him to grow the hell up and not do drugs then at least he may keep his little habits to himself in the future. But guys…adult court and throwing him in jail? Believe me…you’ll take a moron and make him into a hardened criminal with an STD.

I’m sorry but I have to disagree with one more point from Sam Stone’s post…maybe some people have an “they were just our glory days” attitude about “pranks” but some things that went on in the annals of my high school deserved an expulsion and went unchecked (hazing, getting girls drunk and then fucking them…I could go on as to what I’ve seen at my high school) in the name of politics. Some people regard these as the “glory days” but for others they were catastrophic years. This kid could have seriously affected children. He also brought an illegal drug on to school property…the kids deserves to get expelled-not be brought back to his school to eventually become a legend.

But jail?? Please, save my tax dollars for the rapists.

musicguy??? I happen to BE sterile. Both of my children are adopted ( A situation I happen to be beyond thrilled with). Have a nice day, you got your wish. Funny thing is, what you’ve wished for is irrelevant to me. Now, you’re seriously put a dent in my friend Monty’s chrome. Gonna apologize to him or what?
Sam Stone? I smoked pot in school. I just never ever ever ever FUCKING EVER forced someone else to ingest something/smoke something/try something without their full knowledge and consent. Therein lies the huge crime, IMHO. You wish to paint me as such the dandy. Smoking some pot is about as wild as I got. But yes I admit, I did do it in High School, and part of college. And thanks for the info on what a teenager is. My kids are 11 1/2, and almost 10. I’ll have to keep it all in mind.

It’s the Providing that has me upset. Not the use of it by the original baker. So, you can draw that stick out of my ass a few inches there, okay???

Thanks, 'Toon.

Actually, what’s got me upset is the outright violation of others’ bodies. Gee, what other violations would be okay?

In my book: NONE!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Monty *

Sounds like an opinion. Kind of like when I FUCKING CLEARLY LABELED MY OPINION AS SUCH in the OP.

It’s still an ignorant statement

Kindly explain how poisoning others is a way to work on one’s self esteem.

All kids have self-esteem issues. What they don’t need is stupid fucking adults reenforcing thier fears.

Television station website. Get the facts right.

Right, much better

Nowhere did I suggest discarding them as trash. I did suggest trial and incarceration.

“worthless piece of shit” = trash. That seems logical enough.

This was not “a mistake.” It obviously was a crime and a pre-meditated one at that. That makes him a criminal. I maintain, given the bit I mentioned above, that the appropriate disposition of this particular case is adult court and incarceration in Juvenile Hall.

Luckily the authorities involved apparently have a different view of what the “appropriate disposition” is.

And yet, when I was growing up, I don’t recall committing the crime of drugging people. Odd how I missed that golden opportunity, ain’t it?

Ah yes, the perfect people of the world.

That’s pretty damned low of you, you cocksucking asshole.

Well, that was a heat of the moment comment and looking back, I probably would be better off editing my remarks.
So I will apologize for that.

But my point is that I would hope that someone so unforgiving, judgemental, and unable to think of someones best interests, would never have the opportunity to raise children. They are better off without having people like you as parents.

There is a 14 yr old in California right now who is in a coma because a 21 yr old marine was horsing around and put a choke hold on him. The authorities said they will not be pressing charges because it was “just a horrible lack of judgement”. Now this guy could have killed him but didn’t. In your opinion, this guy should, I guess, do life? The fact is sometimes we all have horrible lack of judgement (well, everyone but you, oh holy one) but that doesn’t mean that everyone that does needs to pay dearly for it, especially a kid.

No, Cartooniverse, that isn’t my wish and it wasn’t directed at you. In fact, regardless of who it was directed to, it was insensitive and I apologize to anyone on this board who I offended by that remark, including Monty.

But hopefully as a parent you realize that children are going to have poor judgement, and make mistakes both big and small. It is a parents role to steer that child back to the right path and not brand them a worthless piece of shit. That is just unacceptable. This kid wasn’t thinking about the consequences or allergic reactions or anything, he wasn’t thinking that he was poisoning anyone. He has probably tried the drug, didn’t think there was anything that dangerous about it (exercising poor judgement) and didn’t see it as a big deal. Obviously it is and I’m sure he is painfully aware of that by now. The story that the OP linked to stated that “everyone is fine”. He is very lucky for that, as lucky as a kid who drinks too much and drives a car without killing anyone. But that happens every day and we don’t throw them in prison. We take away their license, make them take a bunch of classes, and punish the shit out of them. Repeat offenders go to jail. That is the way it should be.

Cartooniverse and others:

You are still making that BIG leap of judgement. You keep acting like the only question here is whether or not the kid did something really stupid and bad. To your way of thinking, if he did, then lock him up.

NO ONE is arguing that the kid was right. NO ONE is arguing that he shouldn’t be punished.

What I AM arguing is that CHILDREN should be punished by their PARENTS, and not the state. That’s what PARENTS are for. And I am further arguing that putting this kid through the trauma of a trial and incarceration at 14-fucking-years-old is a travesty, and will do far more harm to that kid than good. Furthermore, if he is tried in adult court and convicted, he will have a criminal record for the rest of his life. That’s a pretty big monkey to hang on someone’s back for the rest of their life for a childhood mistake.

Jesus, you people are harsh. Unreasonably so. Dangerously so. You may have noticed that I am not exactly a touchy-feely New Age type. I believe in corporal punishment when necessary, which puts me in the minority these days. But this militant jackboot shit going on in the schools today is just outrageous. Kids getting suspended for giving a friend a tic-tac. Kids getting expelled for DRAWING a gun. Children being tried as adults for non-capital crimes to serve our sense of vengeance.

And yet, our teachers aren’t allowed to even lay a hand on the kids. So they let the troublemakers run amok until they do something real bad, then it’s off to prison!

In the old days, the kids had a healthy fear of their teachers and principals, because it wasn’t unheard of for a kid to get hauled out of his desk by the arm and physically dragged to the office, where he would get a strap and then a spanking when he got home. Then his parents would tell him they loved him, and he’d go to sleep with a sore bum, but a new appreciation for the consequences of being a little shit. Then the next day all would be back to normal, so if the kid straightened up and flew right, it was like nothing ever happened.

Just keep the damned cops and the bureaucracy out of it UNTIL you have run the course of alternative punishments, or unless the little shit has made it abundantly clear through previous incidents that he can’t or won’t learn from his mistakes. Then he’s a basket case anyway, and you might as well lock him up to protect others.

But if there is even a shred of evidence that this kid just made a horrible mistake, prison or juvie hall is the LAST place you want him. And if you want children educated, why the fuck do we keep kicking them out of our schools for trivial offenses? How about instead we give them a double load of homework? Or make the punishment fit the crime - let the kid ‘volunteer’ to work in the cafeteria every lunch hour for the rest of the semester, so all the other kids can see the price to be paid for being a thoughtless idiot.

Cartooniverse again: Hey, I’m with you on the hazing. There is FAR too much bullying going on in the schools. But you know why? Because the teachers are powerless. I remember when I was a kid a bully was pushing around another child, and the vice principal saw it. He walked over and grabbed the kid by the front of his shirt and lifted him one-armed and slammed him into the locker. Put his face about an inch away and said, “If you EVER touch another kid again, you answer to ME. See me after school today.” Then he put him down. The bully probably wet himself, and I don’t recall ever seeing the kid make trouble again. And I don’t know what went on in the after-school lecture, but I would hope that it was a stern lecture about being responsible when you are bigger than other kids, coupled with a fatherly talk about how to channel your feelings and how to be a good kid.

Nowadays, that Vice Principal would have been fired for that. But that episode stuck with me, and it was the reason why I decided to stand up to bullies myself and to help out other kids who were being bullied. It was a great lesson.