Mark–a man married to Wendy
Wendy–a woman married to Mark
Fay–a friend of Mark and acquaintance of Wendy
Mark and Fay eat lunch together often, and occasionally dinner or a movie. Wendy rarely goes, but has no issue with Mark and Fay’s friendship.
Mark and Fay plan to go to a movie on a weeknight. The timing is a little weird in that Fay would either have to stay quite late at work or waste time somewhere else. Fay doesn’t have time to go home between work and the movie. Mark and Fay live close by and Mark asks Fay if she’d like to kill the time at their house. Wendy will not be home yet when Fay arrives, but she will get home before they leave for the movie.
Fay refuses, saying that she’s been friends with men before and finds that doing something like that will eventually cause problems in his marriage.
In a separate conversation with Mark, Wendy also suggests that the easiest solution is for Fay to stop by. Mark tells Wendy Fay’s objection to it. Wendy says Mark should relay her okay with the plan.
Mark tells Fay Wendy is okay with the plan. Fay says that even if Wendy is okay with it, it will eventually cause problems in their marriage, so she won’t do it.
If you were Wendy, Mark, or just an observer hearing this story (which you ARE!), what do you think of Fay’s objection?
If Fay wishes to err on the side of caution, it doesn’t seem as though any serious harm is being done. She seems to have a fairly realistic, if pessimistic view of domestic relationships based on some unpleasant experiences in the past. So leave it with “You’re welcome to stop by if you want, but we won’t take it the wrong way if it makes you feel uncomfortable”.
Seems kind of a weird place to draw the line given the rest of the relationship. It also seems weird that she would sort of rock the whole relationship by suggesting the possibility of something inappropriate when should could easily just get her nails done, go to the library, walk around Target, etc, etc, etc.
The attitude doesn’t bother me, but neither would Fay hanging out for a while. I don’t have a problem with male/female friend-pairs hanging out and don’t think that they are alone together is a problem, regardless of whether either of them have a partner. Now a partner that a had problem with it isn’t one I’d want, but I guess enough do that I’m not going to think much except that Fay is a little overcautious.
Frankly, the first time I heard something like this it just seemed strange to me - a friend’s sister was hanging out with friend’s husband while friend was at work (husband has business, but no office and was between calls) and friend-of-a-friend was horrified that husband was alone with his sister-in-law. So that was a bit different, due to the woman being a sister of the wife (plus friendship pre-dated marriage - it’s how the spouses met). I suppose I’m strange, but it never would have occurred to me that it would be a problem in relationship, regardless of whether or not it was her sister. Her husband was hanging out with a friend - what’s the problem.
OTOH, some people apparently have a problem with their spouse riding with one member of the opposite sex on a car-travel-business-trip. That one really never would have occurred to me.
I don’t think two people of opposite sex being alone together is going to make them spontaneously cheat. If there’s cheating, that’s not what caused it. But I guess I can understand a person worrying it will make people think they’re cheating. But that’s just not how my mind works. I’m very face-value, not always to my credit.
I’m not sure how Fay can logically hold that a married man being alone in a movie theatre, restaurant, etc. with a woman other than his wife is OK, but doing the same in a domestic home is not OK. Is it that in a diner or at the movies, there are other people around acting as pseudo-chaperones?
I suppose that since Fay and Wendy are only acquaintances (per the OP) then Fay is simply giving a wide berth to any potential boundaries in Wendy’s marriage. I’d assume that good friends would be able to level with each other better more directly, in much the same way that good friends would be more honest about spinach in the teeth etc. (“Hon, we’ve been friends since our sandbox days and I love ya to death, but you’ve gotta pick different shoes for that skirt.”) than more distant acquaintances.
Less charitably, it’s also possible that Fay over-values her own attractiveness to men, or her perceived threat level to other women.
Maybe it’s just the CPA in me, but I really think you should not even appear to be doing something wrong. Don’t even give yourself the opportunity, if there are other options.
I don’t entirely oppose Mark and Wendy - a couple needs to be trusting of each other. Jealousy and fear is more likely to cause an affair than to prevent one.
But still… if there’s a way to avoid creating a temptation, why put yourself there? Mark and Fay could hang out at Starbucks or something like that.
Fay’s objection sounds reasonable to me. One of the best ways to avoid unfaithfulness (or enticing someone else to be unfaithful) is to avoid temptation, and Fay might feel that she or Mark would be tempted if they were at his home, alone, together.
Fay is correct despite everyone’s desire to be very mature this sort of setup is fertile ground for trouble. Wendy is being almost too accommodating of this situation. Most wives would have some common sense degree of caution re their hubby being BFF hang out buddies with a non-related women.
Fay being Mark’s go out to dinner and show goto while Wendy chooses to stay home and not go out with her husband is somewhat odd unless there’s some mobility issue involved. I mean going out with your spouse for some one on one time is supposed to be a BFD to most people, that she’s happy to outsource this to another woman is very unusual.
What Finagle said. While “it will eventually cause problems in their marriage” would more accurately be stated “it could eventually cause problems in their marriage,” it appears Fay is sensitive to this situation. Whatever her reason for that, I don’t see any harm in her approach.
I would just shrug and figure that she was uncomfortable with it. Yeah, it’s a bit different, but Fay seems to be attempting to help - it might be misguided, but it’s nice that she’s concerned.
IIUC, Fay is basing her decision not on pure logic but on personal history/experience: “When I’ve done X, the result has been Y; therefore I choose never to do X.”
There may be good reasons why it is in fact safe to do X in this particular instance, but as long as there’s no harm in not doing X, why not just let Fay live by the rules she’s set for herself?
I guess the final possibility that hasn’t been discussed is Fay likes Mark an awful lot and she doesn’t trust herself to be alone with him. An, “it’s not you, it’s me” thing.
An admission though that she’s known to cause breakups or thinks she would cause a breakup or any of that would make me a little uneasy though, as in, “What’s wrong with her? And is she insulting my husband by insinuating he’d cheat? Ugh, whatever…”. But if it’s the only mention of it and no awkwardness or drama ever happens afterwards I’d probably forget about it soon enough and just never ask her over alone again.
Fay’s attitude seems reasonable enough to me. Regardless of whether or not it would cause a problem, she’s not comfortable moving their friendship of the public realm (movies, dinner, etc) into the private realm being alone with him in his house. Perhaps she’s done so before and it caused jealousy issues with a spouse or perhaps her and/or a previous friend got the wrong idea, etc.
I’m not saying that Fay is correct or that being in someone’s house has to lead to hot pawing action or furious spouses but she seems to have her own concept of where the line is and is honest about it. I don’t see the value in trying to convince her to hang out somewhere she’s uncomfortable.
