Here’s da facts: A 15-year-old girl I know has decided to seduce one of her teachers. Said girl is, to be blunt, a hippie. She freely admits to using a variety of chemicals (and people) for pleasure, and one day brought in a photo album pruient enough to get me busted for child pornography had I been caught looking at page 12. The teacher in question is male (said girl is bisexual, if anyone is curious, provided that her photo album is not doctored), and as far as a heterosexual male can tell, very attractive. I pointed out to her that said teacher was
A). In the army for a while, proving that he has discipline
B). A lawyer for a while, proving that he knows exactly what would happen if he were caught
C). A father. With daughters.
Her rebuttal to point out that said teacher was, in fact, male. I admit that she has a point.
Hypothetically, if said girl manages to get through A, B, and C, would this be wrong? Not illegal, but wrong?
Can you warn him? Or would that seem somehow out of line?
Would what be wrong? The girl seducing him, or the teacher allowing himself to be seduced?
For the first, yes, because she knows that, from his perspective, it’s wrong–he’s much older, he’s in a position of authority over her, he’s married with children, and it’s illegal. Tempting someone to do something morally wrong is also morally wrong, successful or not. Whether or not her “hippie” morality allows her to rationalize it, she has to recognize that he would be taking a big risk, with terrible consequences for him. From her perspective, if she does seduce him, which implies a lack of consent on his part, then she’s injecting into his life everything bad that he should avoid by saying “no”.
For the second, yes, for all the reasons listed above.
And you know that this 15 year old “seduced” this teacher how. You have precisely what objective evidence of this allegation?
You haven’t listed you location, but in most legal juridictions child protection, sexual assault, and professional obligation laws alone would make the teacher liable to prosecution. An adult is an adult and is expected to behave like one. Some professions - and here, at least, teaching is one of them - are held to a higher standard than would be an adult not engaged in that profession.
Is it “wrong” for an adult (of either gender) in a position and trust and power to respond to the sexual advances of a minor (of either gender)? Well, IMHO, it most certainly is, no matter WHAT the minor’s previous sexual, drug-taking, or social history.
WTF does the fact that this guy was in the army and is a lawyer and a father of daughters have to do with ANYTHING?
You sound like you’re trying to put brand this young woman with a scarlet letter because this guy is A), B), and C),and therefore she must be a temptress of high order if she managed to unravel someone of such discipline and achievement. :rolleyes:
Believe it or not, assholes come from all kind of backgrounds. I suspect that neither the Army nor the Law will be quick to claim this person as one of their own (and who can blame them), and you might want to take a look at sexual abuse statistics if you believe that being a father of daughters (or indeed a father or parent at all) mitigates against the likelihood of an individual taking sexual advantage of a child.
To answer the OP - which is kind of hard to do because you’ve excluded “illegal” from the equation in your OP and asked what is effectively a moral question (to which there cannot be a “factual” answer) yes, it’s “wrong”, because the parties to your question are not legally, socially, or otherwise in any way “equal”. And it probably is child molestation given your comments about the adult being the father of daughters (plural) which suggests that he’s not some young kid straight out of teacher’s college and only a few years older than the young woman involved (even if he WAS only a few years older, he’d still be abusing his position as a teacher, but that’s ANOTHER debate).
Um, reprise, reread the OP. The 15 year old is planning to seduce the guy. It hasn’t happened yet. She’s telling the OP of her plans.
The OP brought up the teacher’s army and legal experience to suggest that he would be very difficult to seduce (i.e., he’s disciplined, and knows just how illegal it would be to have sex with her, respectively). He sounds like he’s trying to dissuade her.
Warn the teachers. Warn the girl. And tell EVERYONE IN A POSITION OF RESPONSIBILITY THAT YOU CAN about what’s transpired.
Get that monkey off your back, ASAP.
My apologies to both the OP and hansel. I read the “has decided to” sentence in the OP in a totally different context than that which was intended and I apologise for interpreting it that way rather than asking for clarification.
To me, “has decided to” did not translate to “is planning to”.
I apologise for the implicit hostility in my original response, but believe the issues I raised are still relevant.
Please, warn the teacher involved if you are absolutely certain that this young woman’s intention is as described in the OP; the fact that she is even thinking that way and that you believe she might actually follow through with this plan (as opposed to having the same kind of simple teenage fantasies to which many of us were once held hostage).
I still believe that the ultimate responsibility in this situation rests with the adult. I also believe that “forewarned is forearmed” and that if you aren’t able to convince this young woman that it’s OK to have these fantasies but definitely NOT OK to pursue them in a manner which would expose another human being to the possibility of irreparable harm, then perhaps you can at least alert the teacher involved to the possibility that one of his students might right now be best offered assistance by teachers other than himself.
Once again, I apologise for my mis-reading of the OP.
My apologies to both the OP and hansel. I read the “has decided to” sentence in the OP in a totally different context than that which was intended and I apologise for interpreting it that way rather than asking for clarification.
To me, “has decided to” did not translate to “is planning to”.
I apologise for the implicit hostility in my original response, but believe the issues I raised are still relevant.
Please, warn the teacher involved if you are absolutely certain that this young woman’s intention is as described in the OP; the fact that she is even thinking that way and that you believe she might actually follow through with this plan (as opposed to having the same kind of simple teenage fantasies to which many of us were once held hostage).
I still believe that the ultimate responsibility in this situation rests with the adult. I also believe that “forewarned is forearmed” and that if you aren’t able to convince this young woman that it’s OK to have these fantasies but definitely NOT OK to pursue them in a manner which would expose another human being to the possibility of irreparable harm, then perhaps you can at least alert the teacher involved to the possibility that one of his students might right now be best offered assistance by teachers other than himself.
Once again, I apologise for my mis-reading of the OP.
Do you know why she wants to do this?
You know, if you’re convinced that the girl is going to try to do this, you could go to the teacher in confidence and tell him (in fact, you should). I suspect the teacher would be grateful for the warning, and would keep your name out of it if something should ever occur.
There are other steps for the teacher to take than simply steeling himself to say “no” when a nubile 15 year old is rubbing up against him. He can make sure he’s never alone with her. If he has to meet with her, he can arrange for another teacher to be present (this is policy in some schools). In the worst case, he can make a note in a diary on that day, and should an incident happen, demonstrate that she was the instigator, rather than a victim.
To answer the OP explicity, no, it wouldn’t be child molestation, it would be statutory rape.
I think you should completely stay out of it.
For god’s sake, this man’s an adult and a qualified teacher. He doesn’t need pre-warning of a 15-year-old’s attempt to seduce him. All teachers learn about pupil-crushes as part of their training. He will know it’s wrong for him to respond in any way to her advanced. If he’s the sort of man who is going to let himself be seduced, then forewarning him isn’t going to make a damn bit of difference.
The other issue is that this girl may be all talk and fantasy, in which case is it really fair to go running to the teacher? If I hear a colleague mutter mutinously that he’d like to kill the boss, I know 999999999 times out of a billion it’s just hot air.
If she starts planning anything that will be of specific harm to him - ie she plans to set him up in some way/send anonymous letters to his wife, then there is a case for intervention.
I just wouldn’t want to give a silly little attention-seeking 15 year old any more limelight. It’s a bit like feeding a troll, and may make a mountain out of a molehill.
As usual, I reckon Istara has got it completely right. Keep out of it!
For all we know, she might just be saying all this to wind you up, or impress you. Go to him and you risk making a big fool of yourself in MHO!
It’s me, the OP!
To re-clarify: I had said teacher two years ago. He ain’t a perv, and is probably wryly amused at the whole thing. Also, I’ve seem/heard said girl when conversing with said teacher. Wrestling him down and tearing his clothes off would be more subtle. He knows her intentions, and won’t act on them, or I didn’t learn anything about him in the year he taught me.
My question was intended to ask if this is a situation in which the age of consent laws here in the U.S. are silly?
And no claiming that this would influence said girl’s grades. She’s very bright, considering the amount of FOD* her brain must have suffered through.
*This is a clever metaphor comparing what drugs do to brains to what birds do to jet intakes when inhaled at high speed. Aren’t I witty?
Yes, the age of consent laws are silly IMO. But that she is a student and he is a teacher would still probably make it an undesirable companionship, whether or not it was meant to be a one-nighter.
Why are age of consent laws silly if applied to this case? The point of consent laws is that it assumes that if you are under a certain age, you do not have the ability to give informed consent. I’ll certainly agree that a lot of age of consent laws seem to draw the age line arbitrarily, but the fact remains that the laws assume (correctly, in this instance) that a 15-year-old girl does not have the ability to give informed consent in her little conquest. It doesn’t matter that she’s the one who would initiate, it doesn’t matter that it’s her idea, it doesn’t matter if she winds up loving every second of their hypothetical encounter.
Beadlin, why do you add, “…correctly, in this instance”? Do you know this girl? Do you feel her stated intentions do not display the ability to consent? Or do you just say, “Well, she’s only 15. No way she can consent.” Not trying to start an argument here, just trying to understand your perception here. Then we can argue! 
Well, yeah, my comment there was a little off-the-cuff. I don’t know the girl in question, I was just going off what the OP said. I say that she can’t give informed consent because of the following (and this all presumes she will succeed, which I think looks doubtful):
A) There is no way she can understand the damage infidelity can cause a marriage, and by extension, the children of that marriage
B) She can’t understand the damage the teacher’s career would suffer, should their “extracurricular activities” become known
C) She isn’t likely to understand the control she will be giving this teacher over her future. He is an authority figure, and could, conceivably, use that role to manipulate her and her school career. Granted, teens can be manipulated by their peers as well, but this man would have the power to truly impact what she is capable of accomplishing.
So, argue away!
Istara, aren’t you getting enough sleep? You’re usually much sharper than this. 
If our OPer warns the teacher, the teacher is then on notice that other people know about this. It will be considerably more difficult for the teacher to deny it, the odds of him getting caught, fired, arrested and/or jailed all go up considerably, etc.
So, even if he is that sort of man to go through with this, warning him may be a very effective deterrent.
Sua
A)—I am not certain anyone understand the implications of their actions. Admittedly the less experience in life one has, the less one can forsee consequences.
B)—I disagree here, not that she might not understand the implications, but that this is indicative on an inability to consent to sexual behavior.
C)—I don’t think this is indicative of an inability to consent, either, mainly because the behavior in question is largely a matter of acting on physical attraction. The consequences of action are untold in most tales, anyway.
Does she know what she is doing? I think this is easily answered “yes.” Does she understand the implications of the action? I would say that this is possible in that if quizzed on it she could provide answers which we would say matched up with an understanding of the consequences of sexual behavior. Whether or not this means she “really knows” is open for debate. Does she understand the implications of the context in which this particular behavior will operate? Knowing the precociousness of youth, I doubt it. The implications of a time-based investment like a job or a family are simply not available to someone until they are in such a position themselves, or at least know someone who is, neither of which are really available to a 15 year old girl. Nevertheless, this does not make it her responsibility to cease and desist: this is the family man’s choice to make.
I say she should go for it. I would have loved to have sex with one of my teachers in High School. Oh sheesh, would I have! I still think about it to this day (well, I don’t obsess over it, but the thought strikes me now and again). If the OP feels the girl should not do this for whatever reason (be it the illegality, the immorality, the stupidity, etc), then the OP should make it known to both the teacher and the girl. All evil requires is that good men do nothing and all of that. But, for those two comments, I feel the girl can knowlingly enter into this behavior, and the man—who stands to lose anything at all here—is the one who should worry about most of the consequences. She has the law on her side 100%, making it a very dangerous proposition for him.