Would you date someone who had made multiple suicide attempts?

[Chimera]

@ladyfoxfyre

[nitpick]
200 mg of xanax is definitely enough to kill someone, they only come in 0.25, 0.5, 1 and 2 mg, so she may have taken 4 of the 0.5 mg tablets, = 2mg, which is still a therapeutic dosage, but definitely enough to knock her out for a while if she hadn’t gotten a tolerance from 0.5 mg.
[/nitpick]

:smack:

Yeah, but the point was that it was an obviously fraudulent suicide attempt.

She blamed me for not checking how many pills she had taken, as if I was supposed to have been counting them on a daily basis. I can tell you that if I had been, she’d have been screaming ABUSE! because I didn’t trust her.

The whole thing was a sociopathic act of psychological violence.

[Rubystreak]

I was talking about a related topic with my BF’s friend recently. He had just broken up with a girl who was bulimic and a cutter. He said he couldn’t handle it and didn’t want to get more serious with someone who displayed such self-destructive behavior. Actually, what he said was, “She’s a nut and I can’t deal with it.” I wasn’t sure what to think of that… on one hand, it’s cold. On the other, if you can’t deal, you can’t deal, right?

So on a related note: Would you date someone with an eating disorder that was chronic and life-threatening? Or someone who was a cutter? I mean someone who is currently doing this, not someone who has recovered.

[Autolycus]

Hmmm… Having a fair share of mental problems myself, I think I’d be willing to date the person and give the relationship every chance to bloom. The future possibilities would depend on the person and the situation.

The only thing I have to personally watch out for is my latent messiah complex. Sometimes I subconsciously get attracted to crazies in order to console them, a seemingly-helpful action but actually more like a deeply disordered attempt to give a boost to the ego and meaning to my life, something not entirely dissimilar to Camut’s ‘The Fall.’

[Kalhoun]

@Atomicktom

I have no qualms with euthanasia. While I worry about the implications of labeling someone “defective” and deciding they are best served by dying (which is a point that you are not raising), I would not begin to make a decision or value judgment about another person’s quality of life. If someone decides, “I choose to die”, then I’m not going to say they don’t have that right.

However, IMHO, people who commit suicide do so because of desperation (that is, a lack of options), not out of a positive choice to end their life. I would be surprised to encounter someone who rationally decided that ending their life was their best solution to their life’s struggles. And my only point, with regard to that situation, is that I would hope people select another choice, because other choices do exist. If I meet someone who cheerfully elects to blow their brains out, however, since this is going to improve their intolerable circumstances better then counseling, or medication, or some other therapy, then I won’t stand in their way.

Of course they do it out of desperation. That’s the point! And it is a positive choice for them. No one makes that decision thinking it’s a bad one. What possible sense would that make? People choose to end their life because non-life is preferable to the hell they’re living in.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Kalhoun

Of course they do it out of desperation. That’s the point! And it is a positive choice for them. No one makes that decision thinking it’s a bad one. What possible sense would that make?

:rolleyes: Clearly, you haven’t been there and come back with the T-shirt. Committing suicide from severe depression isn’t a “positive choice”; it’s utter desperation due to how utterly and irrationally bad everything seems, and that it’ll never get better. This is not the case for the vast majority of sufferers, for whom depression is treatable. You sound like a charactere in a bad Saturday Night Live skit about a suicide hotline. “Hello, Cry-For-Help, how can I help you? Oh, you want to hang yourself but the rope is too long? Do you have any extension cords?”

Stranger

[Kalhoun]

@Stranger On A Train

:rolleyes: Clearly, you haven’t been there and come back with the T-shirt. Committing suicide from severe depression isn’t a “positive choice”; it’s utter desperation due to how utterly and irrationally bad everything seems, and that it’ll never get better. This is not the case for the vast majority of sufferers, for whom depression is treatable. You sound like a charactere in a bad Saturday Night Live skit about a suicide hotline. “Hello, Cry-For-Help, how can I help you? Oh, you want to hang yourself but the rope is too long? Do you have any extension cords?”

Stranger

Pay attention. We’re not talking about people with treatable depression. We’re talking about the large segment of depression sufferers who are resistant to treatment. Yes, there are some treatments that have recently shown to help TRD sufferers, but it’s by no means perfect. Many of these treatments involve drastic measures such as deep brain stimulation; a treatment that simply isn’t available to everyone.

My having or not having the T-shirt has nothing to do with understanding that LOTS of people don’t respond to treatment. In those cases, it most certainly is a positive choice when they choose to end their life. Why the hell wouldn’t they?

[Moriarty]

@Kalhoun

Pay attention. We’re not talking about people with treatable depression. We’re talking about the large segment of depression sufferers who are resistant to treatment. Yes, there are some treatments that have recently shown to help TRD sufferers, but it’s by no means perfect. Many of these treatments involve drastic measures such as deep brain stimulation; a treatment that simply isn’t available to everyone.

My having or not having the T-shirt has nothing to do with understanding that LOTS of people don’t respond to treatment. In those cases, it most certainly is a positive choice when they choose to end their life. Why the hell wouldn’t they?

I remain confused by this debate. I began the discussion by expressing hope that a severly depressed person seek help, rather then end their life, and you are arguing against that point.

If someone came to the Dope and announced they had cancer, I imagine a lot of people would post sympathy and encouragement. Some would even provide their own survival stories. If the cancer victim announced that they had decide to refuse treatment, I’m guessing that others would encourage them to rethink that position; although the repercussions from chemotherapy can be grave, the rewards from going into remission are far greater.

Would you be criticizing these people for making a value judgement about cancer?

Depression is a disease, and suicide is a horrible symptom of that disease. In my life, I’ve known 2 people who killed themselves. One was battling an addiction to Oxycontin. The other, my recently deceased friend, was struggling with his impending divorce and the chronic physical pain associated with his hip. Neither person wanted to die, but neither person could stand the thought of living. Given another option (which their diseased minds couldn’t envision), I’m certain both would have avoided death.

I am not an expert on depression, although I am surving (indeed, thriving) with my own battle. My friends are merely anecdotal stories. My only exposure to studies of suicide are from basic sociology courses. So, I am not trying to offer a certified medical opinion. I’m merely hoping that people, faced with a sense of hopelessness, would get help.

If those people don’t get help, and do kill themselves, then I won’t call them weak. I won’t get self-righteous. I’m not a religious person, and I don’t have any assumptions about the damnation of souls. I will feel empathy for their pain, and I will mourn their loss. But, until that time, I will hope and encourage them to find another solution.

Suicide, in the face of depression, is a permanent fix to a temporary problem (your opinions notwithstanding, I believe that depression is treatable), and not something I will ever happily accept.

[Kalhoun]

@Atomicktom

I remain confused by this debate. I began the discussion by expressing hope that a severly depressed person seek help, rather then end their life, and you are arguing against that point.

You’re missing my point altogether. I’m talking about people who have been in treatment for years…even decades…and have found no relief. They’ve tried various therapies and they aren’t working. Depression ain’t in the closet like it used to be years ago. Antidepressants are the most prescribed drug in the U.S. today. Obviously, people are getting relief and that’s good. But that doesn’t mean it works for everyone. If it becomes too much to bear and someone wants to opt out, it would be cruel to try and force them to endure more pain.

If someone came to the Dope and announced they had cancer, I imagine a lot of people would post sympathy and encouragement. Some would even provide their own survival stories. If the cancer victim announced that they had decide to refuse treatment, I’m guessing that others would encourage them to rethink that position; although the repercussions from chemotherapy can be grave, the rewards from going into remission are far greater.

Would you be criticizing these people for making a value judgement about cancer?

I would criticize people who don’t let the afflicted person make their own decision about treatment and how or when to go.

Depression is a disease, and suicide is a horrible symptom of that disease. In my life, I’ve known 2 people who killed themselves. One was battling an addiction to Oxycontin. The other, my recently deceased friend, was struggling with his impending divorce and the chronic physical pain associated with his hip. Neither person wanted to die, but neither person could stand the thought of living. Given another option (which their diseased minds couldn’t envision), I’m certain both would have avoided death.

Providing there’s another option. Sometimes there isn’t.

I am not an expert on depression, although I am surving (indeed, thriving) with my own battle. My friends are merely anecdotal stories. My only exposure to studies of suicide are from basic sociology courses. So, I am not trying to offer a certified medical opinion. I’m merely hoping that people, faced with a sense of hopelessness, would get help.

Most do. But for those who don’t find relief, suicide is their best option.

If those people don’t get help, and do kill themselves, then I won’t call them weak. I won’t get self-righteous. I’m not a religious person, and I don’t have any assumptions about the damnation of souls. I will feel empathy for their pain, and I will mourn their loss. But, until that time, I will hope and encourage them to find another solution.

Suicide, in the face of depression, is a permanent fix to a temporary problem (your opinions notwithstanding, I believe that depression is treatable), and not something I will ever happily accept.

According to the information I’ve read, 10% to 30% of depressions are resistant to treatment. Some of these people have been trying for years to find the answer. Sometimes it’s ok to quit fighting, and the when and how of that decision is a personal one. That’s all I’m saying.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Kalhoun

Pay attention. We’re not talking about people with treatable depression. We’re talking about the large segment of depression sufferers who are resistant to treatment. Yes, there are some treatments that have recently shown to help TRD sufferers, but it’s by no means perfect. Many of these treatments involve drastic measures such as deep brain stimulation; a treatment that simply isn’t available to everyone.

My having or not having the T-shirt has nothing to do with understanding that LOTS of people don’t respond to treatment. In those cases, it most certainly is a positive choice when they choose to end their life. Why the hell wouldn’t they?

“Make sure you tie the cord tight; if the knot slips, it might not break your neck, and your corpse will be left with this purplish cast in the face that is terribly unattractive. Do you have everything you need now? Okay, good luck with your suicide, and give me a call if it doesn’t work out the first time! Bye!”

Stranger

[Moriarty]

@Kalhoun

Sometimes it’s ok to quit fighting, and the when and how of that decision is a personal one. That’s all I’m saying.

And all I’m saying is that, while I’ll support someone’s personal decision, I won’t agree with it, and I’ll always, now and forever, hope they come to a different conclusion.
Meanwhile, this (friendly) debate is wearing me out, and I’ll agree to disagree, to the extent that we do. There’s other threads I’d rather spend my time on.

[Kalhoun]

@Stranger On A Train

“Make sure you tie the cord tight; if the knot slips, it might not break your neck, and your corpse will be left with this purplish cast in the face that is terribly unattractive. Do you have everything you need now? Okay, good luck with your suicide, and give me a call if it doesn’t work out the first time! Bye!”

Stranger

You make yourself look more foolish with every post.

[OneCentStamp]

@Atomicktom

And all I’m saying is that, while I’ll support someone’s personal decision, I won’t agree with it, and I’ll always, now and forever, hope they come to a different conclusion.
Meanwhile, this (friendly) debate is wearing me out, and I’ll agree to disagree, to the extent that we do. There’s other threads I’d rather spend my time on.

I can’t believe you’re just, you know, giving up on this thread. It really can get better, man.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Kalhoun

You make yourself look more foolish with every post.

That’s a ripe insult, given the source.

Stranger

[Rico]

<mod>

This has gone wayyyyyyy off. And not in a good way.

I’m going to close this. I’ll ask other mod’s opinions, but I think this has gone far enough.

Open a Pit thread if you wish to insult one another, Open another IMHO thread if you wish to discuss treatment-resistant depression. I don’t believe this can go any farther.

</mod>