Would you let your daughter spend the night with friend and single dad?

[shiftless]

If the other dad worries that men will try to assault his daughter any time they are alone together, I think you should accept that that is his view of adult male/young girl interactions. And since he believes that is normal you should never, ever allow your daughter to be around him. How can you know his wife will always be there to stop him from following his perfectly normal male inclinations?

That said, I didn’t let my kids sleep over at that age except maybe once or twice with very good friends. At 8, a child doesn’t have the experience to deal with unusual situations and predators take advantage of that all the time.

[JohnT]

@Fubaya

I kind of agree with the posts trying to see their side, until I remember that the mom deleted my phone number from her phone too. After the call, I was sort of offended until I remembered that, then I was really offended. Not only do they have an issue with a sleepover, but apparently I can’t be associated with either. Since I’m not married, I’m dead to them I guess.

Going from your OP here…

#1. From what they said, they never mentioned molesting. You assumed it. For all you know, they could just assume that all men are drunks.

#2. If you feel you must need to respond because you are worried about them stating their fears about you to others*, I strongly recommend you find an attorney to advise you on the best way to do so. A strongly worded letter from your attorney stating that they had better not give voice to their (wrong) suspicions would do you a lot better in the long run than a heated confrontation in a parking lot.

*This is your worst case scenario here, not that they were rude or that the kids won’t be able to sleep together at your house, but that they tell others about their assumptions of you.

“Oh, Jane was invited to sleep at Ann’s house, but I couldn’t do it because, you know… Fubaya lives with his daughter, alone, and I just wouldn’t feel safe with Jane being in the same house with him with no woman around.”
“Oh my God! Do you think that he would…?”
“No, no! That’s not what I’m saying at all. It’s just that…”

Repeat, distill, play telephone with the above conversation. Either don’t respond at all, or go nuclear with the attorney. There’s no in-between.

IMHO, of course.

[Zebra]

That other family? They all walk around naked all the time. Only mom makes them put on clothes. So they assume the same is for your house but without a mom…

[Fotheringay-Phipps]

@Fubaya

I kind of agree with the posts trying to see their side, until I remember that the mom deleted my phone number from her phone too. After the call, I was sort of offended until I remembered that, then I was really offended. Not only do they have an issue with a sleepover, but apparently I can’t be associated with either. Since I’m not married, I’m dead to them I guess.

I disagree with this and with all other comments which make a big deal about the phone number deleting.

You can’t rely on anything an 8 year old kid says another 8 year old kid claims to have seen. Just because the kid correctly picked up that her parents were not going to let her sleep over at your house doesn’t mean you should put any credence in (what you daughter says is) her interpretation of what her mother is doing with the phone.

@shiftless

If the other dad worries that men will try to assault his daughter any time they are alone together, I think you should accept that that is his view of adult male/young girl interactions. And since he believes that is normal you should never, ever allow your daughter to be around him. How can you know his wife will always be there to stop him from following his perfectly normal male inclinations?

Several people have made comments along these lines, and I’m unsure as to whether they could possibly have intended them seriously.

Someone who refuses to protect his/her children from anything which is not a normal interaction is a delinquent parent.

[bup]

Three possibilities I see -

1. There’s been some past experience with abuse - of the wife when she was young, of the dad when he was young, or of the daughter. They get a pass for being overly suspicious.

2. the daughter has some high-maintenance deal around bedtime (they’re only 8, right?), that would involve a parent seeing some part of her uncovered.

3. The majority here are correct, and they’re judgmental sexist assholes. Single dads are assumed to be more dangerous than other kinds of parents.

[newcomer]

There’s so much missing from this story …

[sugar_and_spice]

@DarkDungeonDenizen

The part that crosses the line to “asshole” is when they feel compelled to tell the guy to his face they think he’s threat. It’s understandable to have your fears, but you don’t make someone else feel like crap for them. Unless they actually think this specific guy is a threat, they shouldn’t essentially say that to him.

This was my reaction too. My parents wouldn’t have objected to a single father, when I was growing up that wasn’t a thing yet, but they had their own share of stupid/unreasonable dislikes of other households. But they would never SAY that to another parent. In a situation like this (not comfortable with other family) they would just say no, I can’t sleep over. Why? Because they said so. The story relayed to the other family would just be that my mom is strict. I mean, my parents were not exactly masters of social interaction, and they really didn’t care what my classmates’ parents thought of them, but they could at least manage to not be nasty to people.

So I dunno, maybe in this case it’s better that this family showed their stripes now, but it still sucks for you and your kid. I hope as the year goes on she becomes friends with kids whose parents aren’t jerks.

[Death_of_Rats]

@sisu

I would be offended and as a single dad with a daughter i am on behalf of you.

Maybe the husband doesn’t want his wife to be exposed to single men? You know all us single men are after is one thing!

Married men are after the same thing, we just don’t get it as often!

@Fotheringay-Phipps

Someone who refuses to protect his/her children from anything which is not a normal interaction is a delinquent parent.

How is a parent reaching out to his child’s friend’s parent to setup a sleepover not a normal interaction? It happens all the time at my house for playdates, party invites and sleepovers. In this case, it is a dad reaching out because he is all there is in the situation. Is it wierd if I, as a married father, reach out to the married dads I know of my daughter’s friends to set up a sleepover? 'Cause we have done that too with no problems.

[Blackberry]

@YogSosoth

I’m kinda glad so many people are taking the side of the OP, which makes it easier for me to say this:

I think, in order to reduce the very harmful stereotype about single men and children, I would let my daughter spend the night not for the intent of a sleep over, but in order to prove such accusations false. To put it another way, I’d risk her safety in order to stave off future accusations. If that makes you upset, keep in mind that most people seem to be agreeing with the OP and would allow the kid to spend the night, so the behavior doesn’t change, just the intent.

That makes no sense. If you feel you’d be risking her safety, then that means you think there’s some validity to the suspicion. It also makes no sense that you wouldn’t care about her getting to do something fun and would just be using her to make a point (which you apparently don’t even believe).

[Bozuit]

@eclectic_wench

Actually, our society demonises both halves of the human race. Men are evil violent child-molesting untrustworthy idiots who need constant supervision, women are insane hysterical shrill parasitical manipulative idiots who need to be told what they want. Again, it’s much easier - if you have limited brainpower - to have one blanket opinion of several billion people than to come up with a separate opinion of each individual based on who he or she actually is.

I wouldn’t call your example of anti-female prejudice demonization; it seems to be based less on fear than a lack of respect. But the real difference is that this anti-female view is an old one, it is waning and is generally considered unacceptable by society. That’s not to say it’s not still a problem, but it’s “in hand”. The demonization of males as uncontrolled sex monsters is much newer, more fashionable and more acceptable. Imagine a situation where a single mother was told by parents their daughter would not be visiting because there wouldn’t be a man there to keep things running smoothly. This would seem to be unbelievably sexist, to levels approaching comedy due to the antiquated nature of such views.

That said, I wonder if that view of women is partially responsible for apologies such as this:

@elbows

Much more importantly, she’s a mother who is no doubt trying to do what she ‘feels’, for whatever reason, is right for her child. You have a child, would you send her off someplace you had a bad feeling about? I doubt it. Would you over ride your own gut instinct, to avoid offending some one? So as not to seem judgy? I doubt it. Would you like to be called an asshole simply because you failed to expose your own, possibly very private reasons, for doing as you choose? I doubt it very much.

She’s not comfortable with it. Right or wrong, why isn’t that enough? Ask any mother and you’ll hear them say, “I know it probably would have been just fine, but I just had a really bad feeling about it.” I think every parent has done this, at some time.

Thinking with your gut is for people who don’t have functioning brains.

[Fotheringay-Phipps]

@Death_of_Rats

How is a parent reaching out to his child’s friend’s parent to setup a sleepover not a normal interaction? It happens all the time at my house for playdates, party invites and sleepovers. In this case, it is a dad reaching out because he is all there is in the situation. Is it wierd if I, as a married father, reach out to the married dads I know of my daughter’s friends to set up a sleepover? 'Cause we have done that too with no problems.

You’ve misunderstood my post. I was referring to molestation, not to sleepovers.

shiftless asserted that since the father was concerned about the OP molesting his daughter, it logically follows that that father thinks molesting girls is a normal interaction (& was therefore himself likely a pedophile). I was pointing out that this does not logically follow.

[nearwildheaven]

@chappachula

HUH?
The news is full of stories about sexual offenders, often with huge scary headlines and loud music designed to increase ratings. But I don’t remember ever seeing a story about female babysitter predators. You’d think a story like that would get widespread coverage.

It often wasn’t recognized by abuse because it was a boy aged 10, 11, 12, or thereabouts, and a high school aged girl. Believe me, this kind of thing messes with a boy’s head just as much as the reverse scenario.

[perfectparanoia]

See, I understand not letting the daughter sleep over but not the reason.

My daughter is only allowed to sleep over two places and only then because we know the parents well.

In fact, she is not allowed to have friends sleep over at our house unless we know the parents.

But because you’re a single dad? That’s crazy.

If you weirded me out? I can see that. (In fact, there was one family we knew pretty well but they were nuts so my daughter was not allowed to sleep there.)

[Blackberry]

@nearwildheaven

It often wasn’t recognized by abuse because it was a boy aged 10, 11, 12, or thereabouts, and a high school aged girl. Believe me, this kind of thing messes with a boy’s head just as much as the reverse scenario.

Chris Brown claims he “lost his virginity” at age 8 to an order girl, and considered it consensual. And he is totally fucked up.

I could see maybe a 12-year-old boy considering it to be consensual with a 16-year-old girl, but EIGHT?

[YogSothoth]

@Blackberry

That makes no sense. If you feel you’d be risking her safety, then that means you think there’s some validity to the suspicion. It also makes no sense that you wouldn’t care about her getting to do something fun and would just be using her to make a point (which you apparently don’t even believe).

It makes sense if I believe there’s such a small risk of an incident that it is worth taking a chance in order to alleviate the fears somewhat by setting an example. Even if I feel I’d be risking her safety, that could be based on nothing, which, given how little contact I’ve had which this other parent, would be correct. If I know nothing of them, I shouldn’t assume they’d be bad people. I’d rather assume they were good. As for the fun, I just don’t care about that as much as making a point. Kids can have fun other ways, this one instance of fun is irrelevant in the big picture

[Blackberry]

@YogSosoth

It makes sense if I believe there’s such a small risk of an incident that it is worth taking a chance in order to alleviate the fears somewhat by setting an example. Even if I feel I’d be risking her safety, that could be based on nothing, which, given how little contact I’ve had which this other parent, would be correct. If I know nothing of them, I shouldn’t assume they’d be bad people. I’d rather assume they were good. As for the fun, I just don’t care about that as much as making a point. Kids can have fun other ways, this one instance of fun is irrelevant in the big picture

This one instance of you using your child to prove a point instead of treating her like a person is also irrelevant in the big picture.

[Ludovic]

“Hey, my daughter was interested in a sleepover with your daughter but you may have lost my number. Would she be able to come over here?”
“No, you live in the ghetto and I’m afraid your black neighbors would mug me. I’m sure you understand.”

“Hey, my daughter was interested in a sleepover with your daughter but you may have lost my number. Would she be able to come over here?”
“No, I’ve heard reports of violent breakins in that neighborhood. I’m sure you’d understand.”

Which one is better?

[bengangmo]

@Blackberry

That makes no sense. If you feel you’d be risking her safety, then that means you think there’s some validity to the suspicion. It also makes no sense that you wouldn’t care about her getting to do something fun and would just be using her to make a point (which you apparently don’t even believe).

It makes perfect sense.

Anytime your child spends time at someone else’s house there’s a non zero risk of molest.

So to talk about “accepting” the risk to make a point is totally acceptable.

If there is no definable, rational reason (i.e "articuable suspicion if you like) to deny - then you should make it a point to allow or you’re perpetuating sterotypes

[Blackberry]

@bengangmo

It makes perfect sense.

Anytime your child spends time at someone else’s house there’s a non zero risk of molest.

So to talk about “accepting” the risk to make a point is totally acceptable.

If there is no definable, rational reason (i.e "articuable suspicion if you like) to deny - then you should make it a point to allow or you’re perpetuating sterotypes

Of course there’s always some degree of risk in everything you do, but if that’s all he was talking about and he doesn’t think it’s any riskier than the next thing, there’s no point in even bringing up the risk thing at all.

And allowing it JUST to prove a point, rather than because you have to let children participate in life because it’s what’s best for them? That’s messed up and just plain weird. Like when my daughter wanted to go to the house of a friend who has gay parents, it would have been beyond bizarre to me if I’d thought, “Well, I couldn’t care less than she wants to play at her friend’s house, but I need to show the world (even though the world won’t know about it or care) that gay people aren’t dangerous to have around kids.” WTF? Who thinks like that?

[Ca3799]

It may be that the other family feels they don’t know you well enough yet. Or they could be nutty jerks. Who knows?

I recall one mom I barely knew by sight and did not know by name stopping my kids and I as we walked to school and asking from her car if the kids could have a sleep over. I said “no” and was unpopular with everyone, but I wasn’t even sure where this woman lived.

Then she did it again.

And again.

I finally invited her over for coffee and explained that I was fairly conservative with my kids and she needed to quit bringing up sleepovers until we knew each other better.

As you might imagine, this friendship did not go well. This woman had all kinds of boundary issues and strange behaviors.

Another thing I would consider at this point is developing some actual, trusted friendships with some other families.

You said you own your house. I assume you plan to stay there. Since it’s just the two of you it’s probably time to start developing a kid-friendly network if you don’t have one already.

School, scouting, and hobbies such as sports or music, etc., and even church membership (I can only go UU, myself) are an excellent ways to make connections with other families through group gatherings at events or each other houses for post-game/gymnastics/dance get-togethers. This will help both you and your daughter build up a community of like-minded folks you know and trust, and you will have some control over the kids your daughter gets to know and bond with.

Also, if you have not done so, do make an appearance at your daughter’s school when you can to see and be seen by other parents. You don’t have to be a ‘room mom’, but you can volunteer to help serve or clean up on ‘ice cream day’ or set up, host or clean up on 'field day. Get involved. Don’t show up just for ‘lunch with dad’ day.

Being an active parent will go a long way toward relieving the worries and stresses of the other parents and it will help you too by making you a ‘known quantity.’ You will find that other parents will be willing to help you out on that one day you can’t get to pick-up time on time, or forgot it was early release day, or missed adding money to your daughter’s lunch account, or whatever.

Really, you can’t have too many friends as a single parent. Parenting is hard enough with two parents as it is, so I can only imagine how hard it could be doing it all by oneself. Later on, in middle school and high school, as kids social lives become more complex, having build this network of solid, trusted friends will be a benefit to you and your daughter and you won’t be stuck with some random kid your daughter found and likes who has weird parents.