I assume you were disagreeing with this part of my post; But, I really have to wonder about the folks who say sex isn’t very important to a marriage. Could it be that the sex isn’t very good? I see this as a potential chicken-and-egg question; which was true, first?
You’re certainly entitled to disagree, but it was a question. I wasn’t stating either a fact or and opinion. Just saying I wondered. And, that was completely separate from the other points I was making.
But, if you have great sex, congratulations! You’re one of the lucky few. I don’t think you have any basis for making that claim, because all you know is that sometimes it’s better than others. But, I’ll take your word for it.
Oh, and please don’t call me “Davie”. Not if you want a polite response, anyway.
I’d have to disagree with you there, Davie. The quality of sex has little, if anything, to do with its importance. We certainly didn’t wait, and the sex (when it happens, he is an intern, you know) is usually of the RTWBTMMTBTTIAQMOSJ variety (BTW, I’ve only had one partner, and believe me I know the difference between that and just getting off). When it doesn’t happen, though, it’s not that big a deal. Sex just isn’t that big a part of who we are or how we work as a couple.
I love him, not his penis. Well, I love that, too, but you know what I mean. His other qualities, good and bad, are far more important to me than his abilities as a lover. If I had to choose between the man and the sex, I’d choose him every time.
Having great sex is certainly a hell of a bonus, and it does make it easier to deal with other frustrations and annoyances when you’re not sexually frustrated on top of it. That’s all it is, though, just a really, really nice bonus.
I agree with *Seldon that it only works if you are both virgins but with different reasoning. My husband had never been with anyone when we married. I had slept with previous boyfriends but while we were dating we agreed that waiting was best. Despite everything he said while we were dation he could never forgive me for not being a virgin, plus he turned out to have a couple of weird proclivities that turned me off. We’re not married anymore.
That said, if I could turn the clock back I would wait until marriage to have sex.
Both of those occur in much of the world, where ‘arranged’ marriages are the norm.
And from what I see, their divorce rate is no higher than that here in America. (Social presure to stay married, economic circumstances, acceptance of mistresses, etc. might enter into that, though.)
**Odd that you didn’t mention communication. Im not as sure as you seem to be that people’s behaviours are immutable. Unless one partner doesn’t actually like sex (then there would be a genuine incompatibility), then devotion, attention and communication can do wonders. I expect you’ll disagree.
Dave I think that sex is very important, but I think that other things are much more important. And yes, I’ve had bad sex before, and great sex now.
A friend once asked me what I’d do if my husband was unable (through no fault of his own) to have sex anymore… imagine an accident or something. After a bit of thought, I decided we’d have to work around that, but I’d still want to stay married to the person I love. Therefore I concluded sex wasn’t even close to the most important thing.
Perhaps you are confusing sex itself, with the breakdown in communication and closeness that may come with one person disliking sex and refusing it ? I can understand how people who are thinking about their relationship as a whole are saying it’s not the most important thing, because they value other aspects of their marriage more. I can also understand people who’ve been in a relationship where sex is used as a weapon, or withheld for manipulative purposes, seeing no-sex as a dealbreaker. Perhaps it wasn’t the fact that there was no sex (because there’s plenty of other things that you can do) but that the attitude of the withholder and the miscommunication were what really poisoned the relationship ? Just a thought.
Didn’t mention communication? That’s what we’ve been talking about, all along. What else is (recreational, non-procreative) sex, but a form of communication used by lovers? And, how could there be love without communication?
No, people’s behaviors are not immutable. I agree with that. I even said so, earlier. But, some things can’t be learned. You can teach almost anyone to sing, but you can’t teach them to sing in such a way as to send shivers down your spine, unless they happen to have that inherent ability.
And, just as I seem to be having difficulty communicating with some of you, so too do some people have difficulty communicating with each other in the physical language of love, because their communication styles differ. And, that, as far as I know, is inherent. I hate to quote a TV character in a serious discussion, but Charles Emerson Winchester III put it better than anyone else I’ve ever heard; “I can play the notes, but I can’t make music.” Anyone can be taught to “play the notes”, whether it’s piano or sex. The difference is, anyone can make beautiful music with the right partner, but that may not be you or me.
Sure, you can “adopt and adapt”, but most people will never be truly fluent in a communication style (not language) that isn’t their natural style. There may be exceptions, but they’re rare. And, it’s even harder when it’s non-verbal.
So, yes, I disagree.
And, I don’t disagree with that.
No, I’m not confusing them. I’m refusing to separate them, because they’re the same thing, seen from different angles. They’re all just parts of the same relationship, and when one goes wrong, they all do. (Sex is just the part that’s the most fun to talk about. :D)
But, I agree with what you said about the use of sex as a weapon/punishment/reward. That means there’s something fundamentally wrong with the relationship.
CanvasShoes, sorry for the massive hijack. I’ll bow out, now.
I’ll not carp on about the main issue any more, but I wonder if the quoted portion can actually be true if you’re right about all the rest… sounds more like the people who are crap at communicating are just going to be crap at sex (generally), no matter what they try to do about it.
Good point!!! I always thought of getting into bed TOO quickly with someone would tend to cloud someone’s judgment with lust.
I wonder how abstaining for months or years before finally getting to “do it” if there aren’t quite a few people who are just so “let’s DO it” already that the after marriage part turns out to be disappointment.
Interesting point, for you, in your relationship, sex just doesn’t have much importance. Would you feel differently if your wife were to suddenly cut down the number of sexual interludes from a few times a week to a few times a year? How about if she changed from being an enthusiastic partner to not caring if you got off and imposed a time limit on each love-making session.
I quoted this cliche earlier in this thread “when sex isn’t a problem in the relationship it only counts for 10%, when it IS a problem it can count for 90%”.
No, and even with a partner who is good, there are times when it’s ebs and flows. The reason for “test driving” (imho, and in my experience) is to avoid unpleasant surprises more than to try and get a “Don Juan” or something.
Well, I’ve been with my bf for 7 years, the sex has mostly been unbelievable, but sometimes just okay. The “test driving” didn’t ensure that the SEX would always be great, but knowing how he behaved (what his attitude was, whether he viewed it as fun and not serious, whether he was generous and open and cared enough to make it good for me), basically how he WAS during sex these things that add up to his sexual MO so to speak say that if the sex “goes south” his basic caring and wanting to make it nice will still be there and we can work on bringing it back to life.
I don’t know what I’ll do if and when I start dating again. I probably won’t wait. But I will probably wait a lot longer into the relationship than I did before.
yeah sure I would. I mean come on…love isnt created through sex (not the kind that should be getting you married at least) so…doesnt it seem a strange question to ask when putting it in those terms. Ahhh yes…but no one said waiting is easy. Hats off to those who did.
Remember when I posted that rant that people don’t post post things like their age and sex when a thread requires it? Knowing how old, and whether a poster is male or female can put the posts here in a completely new light.
This is not totally applicable, since I’ve had sex with my current girlfriend and intend to marry her, but even when it was purely a philosophical issue, I’d say no. It’s not even a question of the impact on the sex life. It’s that someone who chose to ‘wait’ (especially since it’s usually done for religious reasons) isn’t the sort of person I’d end up with in the first place.
Ah yes. Unfortunately I own this particular T-shirt.
And the trouble is, there’s no way of knowing when you first meet / sleep with / live with someone if they are going to turn into a withholder. That little surprise turns up WAY down the line, and it’s incredibly cruel if they know full well that you really like having sex. And not easy to get out of, either, if you’ve tied the knot.
