Buliwyf, please pardon the long wait in replying to your thread, for it is my own pain that prevents me from replying to such threads sometimes.
Your daughter is absolutely beautiful. Thank you for sharing her photo.
I applaud you for not punching the fella who made such jerkish comments. I’m glad management stood up for your right to have the photo in your cubicle. I would be proud.
Should you ever need to rant or blow off steam, my email is available.
My condolences to you and your wife for the loss of such a beautiful child.
What a tactless jerk. I can’t believe some people don’t have enough sense to keep their mouths shut in these types of situations. It’s not as if the lil’ tyke was a mummified corpse that was set up to spin around and set off fireworks with a motion detector when people approached. She just looks like a baby calmly sleeping in her mother’s arms. It is definately an emotional picture because we know the story behind it. If that story wasn’t there, it would look just like any hundreds of baby photos that I have seen.
Buliwyf, keep the picture around. She will continue teaching you things. Everything has its purpose and she will assuredly grant you new wisdom.
Mith has a good point, the hatred shown against the cow-orker seems excessive.
These days Death seems to be the greatest taboo, and the cow-orker is effected by that. When we consider how many of us were moved greatly by Buliwyf’s beutiful baby’s picture, we can just about understand how the cow-orker wants to avoid being moved in that way.
The cow-orker is undoubtedly insensitive to Buliwyf’s feelings, but I don’t think he should be crucified just yet.
For all (except possibly the OP) we know, he may have recently suffered a similar loss.
I saw Montana’s picture, but it took some bravery to click on the link, I am sure I am not the only doper to have felt the need for bravery to do that. Your cow-orker is lacking but has not yet shown himself to be evil hearted.
Buliwyf, my sister was the Executive Director of the Military Family Resource Centre in YK until her passing at the end of November. She told me about your loss prior to me reading about it here.
Anne said that you and your wife had such strength and told me how the community supported you in your grief which she thought was wonderful.
In my opinion, if you want to wallpaper your office with pictures of your beautiful angel, it’s your right to do so. She may be gone from you in body, but Montana lives on in your hearts.
Those of you who are judging this co-worker so harshly with no context what do you think they should have done? How could someone handle this who doesn’t want to be exposed to a picture like this in a work environment?
Death’s a huge taboo in our society. Dead babies are a even huger taboo. Stillborns are hard for many many people to cope with. I’d guess that a photo of a living baby all wired up in the NICU would be easier for some people to see even that baby later died than a photo of a baby who died in utero.
Eh, I’m not defending the co-worker or minimising Buliwyf’s pain but expecting people to deal gracefully with their prejudices straightoff can be a steep learning curve. Are you all so damned sure that you could cope with it in a work environment? Is it only OK because Montana is cosmetically OK? Can I display a picture of my macerated baby with his peeling skin and discolourations?
Fucking grown up, that’s what. And we know the context, Buliwyf told us.
Their problem. Deal with it.
Yes I am. It’s a picture of a baby, for heaven’s sakes! What’s to object to?
Each case is judged on its own merits, of course. People could pin up porn pictures or goatse.cx printouts for all I care, but I know some people would be offended (although I don’t quite fathom why). But a picture of a normal baby who just happened to be dead when the picture was taken… if that offends someone, that person has a problem.
And I haven’t even mentioned that the picture is, according to Buliwyf, more or less hidden from view unless you make an effort.
Yeah, I don’t think I’m getting my point across here very well.
OK – work environment, discomfort around death as a cultural norm and a co-worker who is discomforted by the photo of a dead baby. He may not have expected to see the photo and handled it badly. Don’t think that I think he handled this with grace and style, I most certainly don’t.
But YK I think there’s a double standard here. I’m wrestling with why is it OK for someone to be uncomfortable around the photo of my child (who I think is perfectly beautiful subjectively) and it’s not OK for someone to be uncomfortable around a photo of another stillborn.
As a society we do have issues around dead people and maybe given the status quo, it’s not all that ‘wrong’ of someone to be wrongfooted in a work environment. If the guy came back into work on Monday and continued to be a complete arse about the situation, that’s different.
Gah. Maybe it’s because I’ve lived with the reality of a stillborn kid for 11 years and I’ve reached the point where I no longer want to deal with educating or enlightening other people. Some of them are complete arseholes around the subject and I’d prefer not to deal with how that makes me feel.
Simbelmyne, there is a difference between thinking something and vocalizing it. There may be a good number of people who feel the same way you do, but they keep their mouth shut out of respect for Buliwyf and his family.
My heart goes out to you, friend.
Some here will remember that my wife and I were expecting boy/girl twins to be born on Dec1, 2000. The babies arrived nine weeks early and my daughter only lived three days. Every milestone with our son is so poignant because we can’t celebrate our daughter’s accomplishments as well.
I’ve run into my share of DHAC’s (Doesn’t Have A Clue), who either forget/deny that I had a daughter or who try to temper the situation by pointing out that I still have a healthy son.
Regardless, the loss is still there.
I don’t have any advice for you because it seems as if you’ve done all the right things, IMHO.
On another point - I do believe that there can be humor found in all things (yes, even this)… But know your audience!
As for the scumbags who take delight in parading their sick humor in this thread, I invite you to come out back with me and I’ll have you donate a pint of blood… through the nose!
It is only the idea of the picture that is offensive; viewing the picture alone, there is no way to tell that the baby isn’t simply sleeping. It is understandable that people might find the idea of a picture uncomfortable, but it isn’t as if Buliwyf was asking the cow-orker to have the picture tattooed on his/her forehead.
Your names made me think of Beowolf and your post reminded me of a passage that I have framed. It’s a little excerpt from The Epic of Gilgamesh. I don’t know if you know the story but I’ll quick sum up this part of it - Gilgamesh is looking for eternal life and a wise woman says to him:
**“Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find that life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they allotted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day , dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man.” **
Much of life is more clear in death - just as the mountain is more clear from the plain. ( I think Gibran taught me that. ) It sounds like you are a fantastic husband and can only be an incredible father. I’ve no doubt you’ll cherish the little child that holds your hand and make your wife happy in your embrace.
WHat is odd to me is the absolute denial here.
Everyone here is saying… your daughter IS beautiful.
THe picture may be a nice picture. But unfortunately the daughter is dead.
Your daughter was beautiful, is more appropriate.
How can one work through the grieving process if those around them are in denial?
I would not remember a loved one with a picture of them in a casket. In fact, no pictures ARE needed to remember a loved one. They live on in memories.
I have a feeling that by fighting to keep the picture on yoru desk, you are fighting to keep your daughter’s memory alive. They have nothing to do with one another. I hope you find peace and grow.
Buliwyf, I’m so sorry for your loss. Thank you for telling your story and posting the photo - Montana’s picture is incredibly moving and beautiful. Her image remains with me.
I’m glad that posters here jumped to your defense with their anger and outrage, as friends should. Your co-worker was clearly in the wrong. But I’m afraid we’re all capable of similar wrongdoing, and that’s what’s so frightening about it. We all have moments of failure when an issue is too momentous to deal with and we lash out, lose our reason, behave like pricks. The fact that good people fail makes the betrayal more painful for the recipient. But it also might help you forgive your coworker when you’re ready. Clearly there’s something terrible in their past of which you’re not aware - it’s so sad that you happened to stand in for whatever it is that they needed to act out against, but I’m betting that anger wasn’t really directed at you. And certainly not at your daughter.
I admire you for dealing with your loss openly. I hope this year brings you joy.
There’s no denial here, Mith. I have pictures of my dead loved ones displayed. I have mourned them. I have found peace; I have grown. But I carry them with me in my heart wherever I go, just like I do my living loved ones; thus, I have their photos where I can see them throughout the day and smile. And anyone who would recommend that I purge my house of pictures and mementos after each funeral would have to have some sort of attachment problem.
Well, some say, the difference is that my loved ones are not dead in their photographs. Okay, I don’t know how you missed this, but Buliwyf does not have a photograph of his daughter in life because her life was so short. Yeah, newsflash, all these parents who treasure pictures of their lost children do so only because those pictures are the only ones they have. And parents who can openly recognize the existance of their stillborn babies heal faster than parents who try to keep it a secret or suppress it. Parents who have these humble photographic mementos are more at peace than parents who do not.
She was beautiful then. She is beautiful now because she is with the Buliwyfs now.