I think it is also important to point out that the offense against the woman in the OP had a multitude of factors that effect feelings of victimization:
It was stranger- this increases a sense of fear towards all people. Of course knowing the assailant has its own form of serious impact.,
She “usually” talked with someone on a cell phone- This implies she broke from normal routine which increases her feelings of guilt.
They entered her home- Home invasion, even without rape, has an incredible effect on a person’s sense of security.
She was gagged and tied up- This is also very traumatiuc, even for people who were not raped.
Finally, of course, she was raped. The course of sorting out her life is unqiue to her mindset, but many of the factors involved would exacerbate the sense of victimization. Many victims of these types of crimes never recover. This is, in no way, their fault. Psychology is a strange thing. Sometimes, people just cannot get over a traumatic event. They are not bad people, or weak because of this.
It seems to me she is finding solace in working to help others and expressing herself publicly. Good for her.
I agree with Catsiz. Victims should not be told they are ruined, damaged or unrecoverable. They should be encouraged to express themselves, find a positive coping mechanism and move forward. For some people, a “swift kick in the butt” (like the OP is implying) may work if they get hung up, but only if it comes from a person they trust and who knows them. I will not dare to be the person who implies this woman needs that from one article.
Male rape is rare enough, and I’m a large guy who can take care of myself. I’m much more worried about being struck by lightning, stung to death by bees, or eaten by a shark.
But for what it’s worth, the episode of The Shield last night had a guy who was raped by another guy.
Yes, I think you should have brought it up. I don’t think anyone here thinks that a single, isolated rape event is the equivalent of years of systemic sexual abuse by a parent or guardian.
Frankly, I think that it was rather dishonest of you to leave this out until now.
Further, my Human Sexuality prof got his experience seeing thousands of woman patients in his office as a counselor. You’ve talked to 12 as a boyfriend, he’s talked to thousands in a professional, helping capacity - sorry, his opinion wins, as far as I’m concerned.
Finally, one of my very best girlfriends in the world suffered years of systemic sexual abuse by her adoptive father (she was adopted as an infant). She has now “got over it”. It took a lot of counseling, and work on her part, but she is now a fully functioning, healthy woman, with a family, normal sexual appetites, and no depression.
Frankly, I don’t think you’re giving your former partners enough credit, and in other circumstances, I might suggest that this is because you enjoy playing the roll of rescuer to “damaged” women. However, I’ll probably leave that bit out of this post.
This doesn’t happen very often, but I agree with catsix.
I think this is absolutely correct. If people constantly tell you that what happened was a fate worse than death, yah, I don’t think you’re going to heal very quickly.
Yes again. I was really lucky after both of my attacks tha I had supportive family and friends who assured me that I would get better, that I wouldn’t be scared all the time, and that is really wasn’t my fault. My mom said “Well, at least he didn’t kill you, or cut up your face!” Now, that sounds sort of cold, but it sure get’s you to thinking - “Ya know, he didn’t kill me, or cut up my face. huh.”
I suspect that “dishonest” asserts a great deal more malice than is necessary. The topic is sufficiently hot and the effect on friends and relatives of rape victims are sufficiently varied that I would guess that posters submitting to this type of thread begin from their own perspective, then slowly expand their understanding as further views are exchanged.
Ascribing dishonesty to a poster who may not have even realized the factors that colored their perspective in rgards to this discussion may not carry the discussion forward as well as everyone cutting everyone else a bit of slack until motivations and experiences are better revealed or understood.
I think in many cases, it’s the sex drive coupled with a sense of entitlement. “I want what I want. And if you won’t give me what I want, I will take it from you. Because you OWE me.” That’s probably what causes most date rapes, or at least, the underlying motive. It’s not about power, or at least, not entirely. It’s that these guys basically think they are OWED sex, that they have a right to it, and they don’t give a shit if someone feels otherwise.
No problem, it was actually a discussion I had over the phone with another Doper that reminded me that I hadn’t gone into all that. I really wasn’t even thinking about it.
I don’t have time to read any of the replies and I haven’t read the article you linked to, but I agree with you 100% – too many sexual assault victims, adults and children alike, are failed in their recovery by therapists & psychiatrists who convince them that they will always be a victim. Why? Because they want your M.O.N.E.Y.
Ideally, the proper therapy would be to teach the victimized person how to work through their anger and grief, learn to deal with it and accept it, and get on with their lives without ever having to think about the incident again. Some therapists are very good at doing this the right way. However, the majority (in my opinion) simply want the patient to keep returning every week, checkbook in hand, and the best way is to make them a Perma-Victim.
What really sucks is that being a Perma-Victim almost seems to be a fad in America. Being a Perma-Victim will get you on talk shows, and sell books, and everyone you meet will offer you instant sympathy. Indeed, I’ll bet many therapists, lawyers, politicians, etc. don’t even think about the money, they just use the Perma-Victim technique because they REALLY DO THINK it’s the best way to treat someone!!!
You are who you want you to be. At some point, the choice comes, do you want to control your life, or do you want this experience to control your life. Then you have the degrees of control you allow it to have.
After years of sexual abuse by my father, I made the choice to not let it affect my view of men/myself/sex/fathers. Just don’t wake me by touching me, because I wake up screaming.
I don’t know about all rapists/molesters. But my father had a very cavalier attitude about women and sex. “Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed” That’s what women are for. He’s just obliging. How he justified molesting a 3 year old is beyond me, but I’m sure it’s just an extension of his feeling that that is what women are for. To this day, he walks around a free man, not seeing a damn thing wrong with what he has done to me, my sister, or whoever else. You can’t operate on the assumption that they think they are doing something wrong. He offered to “help” my virginal girlfriends “opening their box” There are some extremely fucked up people out there and to assume their brains work like our brains is an exercise in futility.
I won’t say the experience made me an atheist, but it’s pretty hard to sing “jesus loves the little children” when your dad is fucking you. And no thanks, I’d rather be weaker, I’d rather not carry the burden. I’d rather not fear for my daughter. I’d rather not be so strong/be a good example for others and all the other crap, bottom line, I’d rather have not been fucked by my dad.
Yeah, I’m pretty well adjusted. Since I turned 18, I decided no one was going to touch me without my consent, so far, I’ve been 18 years as a child and 20 years as an independant adult. I like this world far better.
Oh, guys who responded who don’t understand how a guy can do this. Thank you. It’s good to know.
I must say I have a tough time disagreeing with the concept that there’s a cult of victimization that runs strongly in American society. My daughter was molested by a neighbor boy, then by an older female friend–the boy was a one time thing, the girl used the threat of disclosure of the original molest to keep my daughter in line for about six months.
When it all came out, I was the good mom and put her into therapy. We went to group sessions once a week for almost a year, and finally my daughter came to me and asked if she could please stop going, because the other kids were encouraged to talk constantly about all the details of their molestation ad infinitum, which made my daughter uncomfortable. Her take on the situation was that those girls should be learning how to gain perspective on what had happened and get on with their lives, but instead they were being rewarded for being victims–to the point where the other kids AND THE COUNSELORS, would become verbally hostile if my daughter expressed her opinion of their monomania. At about the same time, some of the counselors came to me to express their “concerns” that my daughter was “too friendly, almost seductive” toward the male counselors. Apparently they felt she wasn’t afraid enough of men because she’s social and likes to talk to people. I asked them why in hell were they so concerned about her reaction to grown men–she’d been molested by a 12 year old boy and a 13 year old girl, and no grown man had EVER hurt her, so why should she be fearful? They fumfawed a bit and then just got back on their spiel of insisting that all eleven year old girls should be in terror of all men because (I can only surmise) all men are child molesters. Shit, I’d hate to be a male counselor in THAT environment!
She’s a grown woman now, and has no discernable victim mentality or paranoia about sex at all–she’s extremely sex positive and healthy, has no trouble making or keeping relationships, sexual or platonic. I sincerely doubt the poor girls who stayed on in that therapy environment fared as well.
Rape sucks, no doubt about it. Abusive relationships suck, domestic violence sucks, emotional abandonment sucks, getting beat up by your dad sucks, betrayal by friends sucks, sudden death sucks–there is just no end to the shit that can happen in life. The biggest tragedy of all, however, is in lying down and letting it run your life–now THAT sucks!
It took me about 3 years before I was willing to process what had happened, and another year to deal with it.
Now, it’s not on my radar, no more flashbacks, no more crying jags, no more bulimia. All I needed was to admit to myself what had happened, realise that it wasn’t my fault and stop punishing myself.
OK, I tend not to chat to men I don’t know (at parties, in bars, waiting in line, on the bus) but that’s it.
My counsellor helped me to get through some stuff- but when she stopped helping, I stopped seeing her. By stopped helping, I mean telling me that I wasn’t ready to be in a relationship with my then boyfriend, now husband, because I needed to work out how I felt about men. I know how I felt about the men that hurt me, and it’s not how I feel about irishfella, or men in general. At that point I realised tht I was dealing with things better than she thought I should be, so I stopped going.
I think everyone needs to work through this stuff themselves, but that it takes a different amount of time for everyone.
Irishfella helped me more than anyone, because he knows what happened and he loves me anyway. I’m no victim.
I’m sorry you had to go through that, irishgirl, and from all that you contribute to these boards I can tell you’re one smart, plucky gal. The second to last sentence gives me pause, though. Forgive me if I’m reading into this, but it sounds like you’re saying he loves you in spite of having been the victim of a crime. Is there some reason why he shouldn’t or wouldn’t?
I would guess that it would be a matter of regardless of the rape rather than in spite of the rape, but an unfortunate reality is that there are people who view rape victims as “damaged goods.” Varying from the extreme (and idiotic) cases of “you were asking for it” to the lesser (but still dumb) “you let some guy touch you” with a smattering of some of the ideas mentioned earlier in this thread, there are people who look down on the victims of rape. I have no idea how common or rare it would be to find a guy who was simply supportive, but I suspect that after a few encounters with the other sorts, there would be a certain amount of relief when interacting with such a guy.
Exactly how old was your daughter when this happened? If she was anywhere near their age, then “molestation” is absolutely the wrong word for it…no matter what the media says!
She was about seven when the original molest happened (the actual timeframe was difficult to establish as young children are not too precise about dates), and it absolutely qualified as molestation–the boy was past puberty at the time. Luckily he didn’t go so far as actual penetration so physical damage was minimal. The girl who molested my daughter was also past puberty, the situation lasted for about six-nine months beginning when my daughter was between seven and eight and there were definite aspects of coercion and force involved. She didn’t disclose the situation until she was nine.
I’m not an idiot, nor a handwringing panicky “think of the children” type parent. I chose my words precisely. My daughter was molested.