Isn’t it hilarious when people who don’t even have a rudimentary understanding of science, much less of the complex interdisciplinary science underpinning evolution, feel comfortable dismissing it because, well, hey, they’ve read the Bible? It’s like saying, “Hey, I know string theory is false, because I read the *Bhagavad-Gita[/q]!”
Frankly, given that these people aren’t even remotely interested in understanding the complex, amazing story of the origins of the universe and life on Earth, if I were God, I’d be ashamed of them for being such dolts and dullards.
I won’t even belabor the obvious point that the ACLU often protects the religious liberty rights of Christians just like ol’ Bill, unlike the scummy ACLJ, which only takes on cases that will benefit Christians. To see a shitbag like Jay Sekulow dress himself up as a civil libertarian makes me want to retch.
Standard of what? I was just giving the flip of his example how is that bad? We were in the great debates you know.
I didn’t insult them I insulted the ACLU. People are being decieved by them. People are easily decieved you know exp Clinton getting elected twice.
You are right it is not salvation issue but it definetely matters. You see the liberals want all kids to go to their schools so they can teach them this “theory”. They do not want vouchers because then they would miss alot of children to manipulate in believing this theory and explaining away God.
I mean Lauralee you know what is going to happen. You should know there is huge spiritual war going on. Do you just want me to sit back and not say anything? If fewer people know about God and what the Bible says the anti Christ is going to have an easier time taking over. And I am not just worried about my kids I am worried about all kids as a Christian you should too.
No, you’re right but it might get some people to thinking. I know thing I am crazy but you won’t one day.
So it’s ok to say that “the liberals” are brainwashed or shortsighted because you were just turning his argument around on him?? That’s just another excuse. You can argue a point without calling the other side brainwashed or shortsighted. Being in Great Debates doesn’t give you any more excuse than being in the Pit gave you an excuse to make that snide comment to Guin.
BS. Your exact words were “Anti Christ Law Union”. In saying so you are saying that other people who think that the ACLU does some good things are supporting the Antichrist. I do not agree with everything the ACLU stands for, but even I can admit that when they stand up for other people’s civil rights they are doing good. So does that mean that I’m supporting the Antichrist? That’s not much of an insult for the non-Christians around here, but it’s a big thing for the Christians who support the ACLU. How are they supposed to react to that?
Did you go to public school? I went to public school. It didn’t matter that they didn’t cover Biblical creation to me. I knew it already, because I learned it at home and at church. They didn’t manipulate me into believing anything. And who are “the liberals”? Are they the enemy? I can’t accept that. They have a different idea of how to make this country better. That doesn’t make them evil! And if you honestly think that they’re against vouchers just because they want to turn children away from the Bible and away from God, then I honestly think you’re deluded.
So get off the durned computer and go teach a Sunday School class. I do. Instead of ineffectively complaining about something, I’m working with the kids around me. My daughter won’t have to rely on the public school system to get her Biblical education. She won’t have to wait for her Kindergarten teacher to tell her about God. I’ve already done it. Obviously the tact you’re taking isn’t changing things. So change tacts. Instead of trying to insist that other people teach the children, you go do it. That’s what we, as Christians, are supposed to do anyway.
No, what you’re doing is making people angry. You’re showing your temper, not Christ’s peace. In this thread alone, there have been a lot of people describe you. What have they said?
“bad behavior”
“WB Can compose properly spelled, well thought out posts. He simply chooses not to expend the effort a majority of the time.”
“As I said, your credibility is lower than a snake’s belly full of buckshot.”
“sexist pig”
“Your behavior was childish.”
“You’re just incredibly DENSE sometimes and annoying!!! LIke a lovable doofus, you know?”
Ok, I’m tired of going through and picking out comments. And I skipped the really nasty ones. When these people look at you they are not supposed to see bad behavior, laziness, or even a lovable doofus. They are supposed to see Christ. I would suggest that you quit trying to further your agenda and try furthering God’s. I’m willing to bet that God can even use the ACLU for good. Are you?
I hereby declare that my last post only had a few typos or grammar errors. I hold that I communicated what I wanted to say fairly clearly, and the errors I made were not so glaring that they made my post unintelligble.
Can we agree there’s a difference between normal typos and what Bill often puts out?
Now, Bill:
Doing a little better on the typing thing…but you still need work on the self-reflection thing. I’m not going to respond to your claims about evolution and such, since that’s really a hijack to the purpose of this thread. And I think the purpose of this thread is to smack you around a bit because you need to straighten up your attitude, young man.
oooohhhh Lemur…
Smile, I think it is funny that whenever somebody brings up spelling, they invariably make a spelling mistake. You will notice that I included a spelling error of my own in order to keep the rule vald:)
WB
No one can explain away God. I hope you realize that we are human, and can make mistakes. I envision you nodding and thinking “Of course!! I know that…”
Good.
Now take it a step further. Since we are human, we might have made mistakes when interpreting the Bible. God may really have created us through evolution. You really can’t approach all evidence that contradicts your beliefs with the mantra: “Satan is deceiving us.”(Well, in the gun thread, he is trying:))
The central message of the Gospel is about love, sacrafice and salvation. That is where I concentrate my energy and faith. God doesn’t need to be propped up by theories that may or may not be true. It becomes to easy to have your faith shattered when you base everything on literal meanings.
YMMV…
::If this is the second post in a double post, please forgive me::
Cite, please! Not because I doubt that – but I’ve been in threads where the question has come up before, and I don’t have any. If you’ve got something worthwhile on hand, please share it.
Now to the guts of this:
Bill, I like you. You’re not afraid to say what you think, regardless of whether the climate is agin’ you. And you’re steadfast for our Lord. That is just why I jumped you – because you’re giving Him a bad name here. Because you needed a good hard talking to, and I found myself elected to do it.
God help me, I’m going to do a long post on religion in the Pit. Forgive me, all you moderators who have to read this. I trust you can see why I have to, by my own lights, and why it has to be here.
Take a good deep breath and think about what you’ve had to say:
[li]Christians aren’t responsible for their actions. There hasn’t been a thread where you’ve talked about what you’ve done that you haven’t had an excuse and some reason to blame the other guy.[/li]
If you get nothing else out of this thread, consider that the unlikely foursome of me, Lauralee, Esprix, and Satan are all pointing out to you that you refuse to take responsibility for your actions, and make excuses instead. And by doing that, paint Christ in a bad light. You’re His witness here; you’ve made that clear to everybody. So start showing Him to them.
[li]Christians owe no respect to the law of the land, or the civil authorities. Look at the bit with the cops, or what you’ve had to say about Bill Clinton. Hey, I’m sorry, but you broke the law – granted, it was just show-off driving, but you committed a crime of sorts just as much as any of the people you’ve had nothing but bad things to say about for their crimes. And Bill Clinton is one sleazy human being in a lot of ways, but he also had some good ideas. (IMHO – yours will no doubt vary, but you might take into consideration his coming from a poor household in a state with traditionally a very weak economy, and realize that he just might have had some compassion and desire for social justice behind some of the decisions he made.) And whatever his bad points, he was President of the United States during the time you were bad-mouthing him. I dunno about you, but I was brought up to respect the President. Whatever you may think of him personally, he’s a man who’s taken on a man-killing job that you and I don’t know the slightest thing about, at least partially out of love of country. It’s the main reason I haven’t saturated the boards with insults about “the Shrub who stole the White House” – Mr. Bush deserves my respect, however he got there. Just like Mr. Clinton did yours. And the cops were doing their job – while most cops have a slight ego problem (the handful of exceptions have more sense of civic duty than almost anybody else, and the rest are moved to risk their lives daily in what’s almost always a thankless job by the little self-aggrandizement the uniform, gun and badge give them, and I’m more than willing to grant them that), most cops tend to keep that under control and let only enough of it out to keep control of the situation – and a cop who doesn’t keep control of the situation is failing to do the job we the people of the city or county employing him hired him to do.[/li]
[li]Being a Christian requires rejecting any scientific theory that disagrees with literal reading of the Bible. Sorry; I guess you don’t consider me a Christian, then. I’ve been told that before, by people who are much more interested in beating other people with their theories of what God’s gonna condemn and how He runs the universe than in caring about them and their souls. That wasn’t the job He gave me when I took Him as Lord and Savior of my life, and I’ve never found Scriptural warrant for it. Must be in some of the special stuff they teach you at Fundy. College, huh?[/li]
[li]Being a Christian means giving back what you get. Yep. Turning the other cheek is one of those spurious passages that the liberals slid into the Gospel when you weren’t looking. Got it.[/li]
C’mon, Bill. The folks around here are mostly not particularly interested in reading the Bible literally – most of them find stuff somewhere in Genesis that goes against their everyday experience, and are basically moved to ignore the whole thing. Look at JAB – because people like you are insisting that the clear evidence for evolution must be garbage – human misunderstanding or Satan’s doing – He’ll never know the love of Jesus. Feel good about that?
I answered rjung on the thread I quoted from, arguing my point of view as well as I could. But what you had to say was so off the wall and against what we’re supposed to be trying to do, that I had to take you to task, and Fenris had opened a thread here that was just the place to deal with it.
[li]Christian men are privileged to insult women, and excuse themselves on where they were at the time. Right. If you can’t say it in front of the altar on Sunday morning, don’t say it in the bar on Saturday night. And Guinastasia (whom I happen to know is a devout Christian) didn’t deserve what you said. Period. Regardless of whether it was a thread about you in the Pit, or whatever other excuse you might have. The right words are, “I’m sorry; please forgive me.” And shut up on the subject. No excuses. Just an apology.[/li]
From your answer to Lauralee:
First off, you’re under no obligation to think one blessed thing about evolution. But if you do, get some education on the subject – the sources are not at all hard (junior high biology texts are a good start). It’s not a “theory” – it’s a scientific theory. Which means that it is the explanation that, in the absence of unnatural intervention (by man, God, aliens, devils, or whatever) best explains all the observed data that skilled people studying the Earth have observed, and is contradicted by none of it. Regardless what Duane Gish and his crowd may throw out as supposedly contradictory evidence. (I’ve read ICR tracts. As Christian witness, they’re mediocre; Jack Chick has done better, for gosh sakes! [Admittedly not often… ;)] As scientific studies, and Barb and I are trained to evaluate scientific studies, they sit on hills and bark at the moon.)
Second, it doesn’t “explain away God” – it tells what may be assumed to have happened if He didn’t do something else. And like I’ve said a bunch of times on threads you’ve read and commented on, the idea that He planted false evidence doesn’t square up with the God you and I know. And the fact of the matter is that, even if the first chapter of Genesis is word-for-word true, it’s written as a myth. That’s the style of writing it is. Just like a sonnet is a sixteen-line poem in iambic pentameter with a specific rhyme scheme, and a detective novel is going to tell you who dun it in the end, but give you enough clues that you can figure it out beforehand if you’re sharp enough. If that’s true, it doesn’t have to be a literal account to be true – because myths aren’t – they convey the important fact despite being simplified, kids’-story pictures of the reality – just like Jesus’s parables convey important messages despite the fact they aren’t “real-life true stories.”
And, Bill, I don’t agree with everything the ACLU does. But I think what they’re doing is important. Because I love and value the freedom this country has, and which they’re fighting to defend. Which leads me to…
About the Antichrist: We’re told in Scripture that he will be subtle enough to, “if it were possible, deceive the very elect.” Somebody who takes a strict anti-Christian stance and preaches “Evil-ution” is not gonna stand a snowball’s chance in Satan’s sauna of deceiving the likes of FriendofGod, Navigator, Mike M., and Lauralee and you know that as well as I do. It’s gonna be somebody who is an oily preacher selling his own brand of hate disguised as Scriptural interpretation, somebody who will steal your freedom to take “fat burners” and run the roads, and post your opinion on public bulletin boards, and justify it in the name of Christ. He’s the evil you want to watch out for. Fenris, if you’re still reading the thread you started, you might want to remember that Spider Robinson made a buck for three years writing a column devoted to the proposition that we’re now living through “The Crazy Years” – and got not one letter disagreeing with his thesis. And then remember what comes next: Nehemiah Scudder.
I probably owe you an apology for the harshness of that last paragraph. But you’ve been, through your unwillingness to take responsibility for your own actions even though you call yourself a Witness, trashing something very important to me. You might notice that Esprix and Satan were shocked that I’d flame you. Y’know why? Because I’ve tried to practice what I preach around here. Because people know me as somebody who’s sincerely trying to live out what being a Christian means on this board, whatever the cost – even down to stripping my soul bare on one thread last week, because a young man with major issues about his desires and his faith needed to hear it in order to straighten his own head out. I’m not saying this to pat myself on the back – if it weren’t for Jesus, I’d have just as many excuses and stupid opinions as you do, and nobody knows that better than me. The point is, He turned me around, and your own witness is that He turned you around too.
So start showing it.
I got a mark on my forehead two days ago, and it had nothing to do with the Beast – it was the sign of the Cross, marking the start of Lent. It’s traditionally a time when you look at your own life, examine it carefully, and decide what changes need to be made in your behavior to better follow Jesus. I know you’re not from a tradition that makes a big deal out of Lent, but it might not be a bad idea for you to do just that for the next 38 days.
Thanks I am trying and I definetely find your post humorous.
Lauralee,
I don’t think I am wrong about the ACLU. I just have a bad feeling about them. I havet seen and heard to many stories about them and their antics to think otherwise. And believe I am not out in left field on this one. Alot Christians feel the same way. I mean Christians have even got their own organization(ACLJ) to help keep our rights protected against the ACLU trying to take them away.
As far as the rest of your post I will pray about it and ask for more wisdom to help me from flying off the handle as I do sometimes. I feel bad that you are getting discusted with me because I consider you a good friend and a good Christian.
Slam dunk, Poly. In this case (Lamb’s Chapel v. Center Moriches School District), the ACLU submitted an amicus brief supporting the right of Lamb’s Chapel, an evangelical Christian church, to gain nondiscriminatory access to a public school for after-hours use.
That’s just one case that I found in less than five minutes of searching. If you’d like me to search more extensively, I can.
Bill, could you please provide links to one or more cases in which the ACLU attempted to remove the COnstitutional rights of Christians? Thanks in advance.
I’m unclear on and upset by the ACLU trashing going on in this thread.
In case you don’t know, one of the goals of the ACLU is to uphold this portion of The First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
How does one go from religious freedom to Christian bashing?
For recent ACLU religious news, please visit this link.
I fail to see how the ACLU prevents Christians (or any other religion) from worshipping.
I’m not disgusted with you Bill, I’m just trying to make you think. That’s all. And as long as you’re doing that, then I feel better. Just remember that all the sarcasm and slams and flames (even comments about the ACLU) that come from you will be looked upon not as just another poster, but a Christian.
Phil, Mel, and mouthbreather … Thanks a million. I knew they’d done a lot of pro-Christian work when rights of Christians to practice their faith were being impeded; but I never had the references to prove it. Mil grazie!!!
THIS, Bill, this is your problem. You don’t know why people jump on you. Whenever people say something to you to try to set you straight, or correct you, or even flame you, or whatever, you always come out with the “I don’t understand” bit, and dust off that persecution complex that you (try to) wear so well.
Whenever you see a response to your posts, you may read them, but you don’t process them. You just see that the post goes against what you were saying, and immeadiately you go into “defensive” mode. Without pausing to give thought to that response, you fly to the “response” button, and type out some jibberish as fast as you can gush it out of your mind. THIS is your problem.
If you would read the posts of people like Poly, and I mean really read them, then you would understand that we’re not all out to get you. We’re not the enemy lurking around every corner. We’re trying to help you realize that there are people besides you out there, who have lives like you, and needs like you, and that the things you’re doing affects those people, too. And Bill, if any of your “Wild” activity ever leads to the harm of one of those people, all the religion in the world won’t be enough to stop you from the people who will be beating down your door to persecute you. When that happens, you won’t be able to play the “martyr”, because you will have martyred someone else due to your actions.
“I was just spinning my wheels” is never going to be enough for the parents of a child that you hit while hot-rodding, or the members of the police force who track you down because one of them got hurt trying to keep you from hurting yourself and others because of some stupid need for speed. And Bill, it may just be me, but the Creator doesn’t seem to look to kindly on people who needlessly endanger his children.
It’s been said by better men (and women) than me, but for the love of God, Bill, read over the posts in this thread. Mull them over. Let them keep you awake at night, and remember their warnings when you go to do some stupid activity. It may keep you from getting hurt, or, worst of all, hurting others. Do some serious introspection, and you may finally understand why everyone is yelling at you. Trust me, we’re not doing it just to hear ourselves talk.
-Walt
{Note: I fixed the coding, this time NOT by request. Lynn}
[Edited by Lynn Bodoni on 03-02-2001 at 06:10 PM]
pldennison:It’s like saying, “Hey, I know string theory is false, because I read the Bhagavad-Gita!”
Phil, honey, when will you learn that there is no such thing as satirical hyperbole when it comes to religion attempting to speak for science? From a review of Vedic Physics: Scientific Origin of Hinduism:
It’s simply not possible to make fun of these people without being what Calvin Trillin calls “blindsided by the truth.”
