You did nothing? Fuck you

The BBQ Pit
41

I suspect you are purer in your associations than I. And I truly respect that.

Although perhaps I rely on my failure to conclude that everyone who voted for Trump is MAGA.

I think of this way too much. As best I can tell, I have 2 long-term golfing buddies whom I interact with regularly who voted for Trump and/or voice some support for him. Those are the only 2 such people I knowingly associate with regularly. There MAY be 1 or 2 similar guys who frequent our music jams, but I’ve never taken it to the point of ascertaining their true beliefs.

Unlike you, I have failed to cut these 2 friends out of my life. The only way I could do so would be to remove myself from 2 groups of golfers whom I have played with for 35 years. I’ve never heard either of these guys say anything racist - beyond an occasional off-color, tasteless jokes that any of the group may have uttered on rare occasion. My contact with them is almost entirely limited to golfing - one of my few primary enjoyments. From my years of knowing them, I am confident that they are hard working, good husbands/sons/parents, taking personal responsibility for their actions.

If they were wearing Trump gear and regularly espousing their support for his outrages, I imagine I would act differently. I have told them both to their face that I think Trump is horrible, and that I do not understand, agree with, or respect their support for him and his policies. It somewhat troubles me that I have not cut them as you suggest. But I find current life so challenging that I am hesitant to cast of golfing with a group I enjoy - one of the few things that does bring me joy in these dark days.

42

Their actions are racist, that is what is important and if they say a tasteless joke in front of you, imagine what they say among themselves. Cutting MAGA out isn’t just a gesture, many of them complain about being cut off from friends and family. It’s about removing a safe space for them, about refusing to normalize their repugnant behavior. They can be fascists, but they don’t get to pretend that they’re not bad people. To not cut them out is to turn a blind eye and history is filled with people who looked the other way.

When I cut my sister and husband out, it was hard. They have been cut off from other family members and it hurts them deeply, but if I kept them in my life, every interaction would have to be an argument. The people who “just don’t talk politics” with their Trumpists friends might as well have voted for him; their silence is an endorsement.

43

Well, I have told a tasteless joke myself on occasion.

Like I said, I suspect you are purer in acting on your beliefs than I. I feel like Sen Collins, furrowing my brow over outrages.

44

You have to do what you feel best.

These are dark days and we need to eek out what little enjoyment we can.

45

If those jokes rely on lazy bigoted stereotypes, you should consider stopping. I revel in dark humor, but I never have to look around before telling it to make sure one of “them” isn’t in earshot.

Cutting Trumpists out and letting them know why is something tangible that we can do right now. Today. It won’t solve the problem, it won’t fix everything, but we are well past the point where we need to choose what kind of person we want to be. It’s here, it’s happening. If a person wont take a stand now, I think that they have to admit that they’re the kind of person who doesn’t take stands in life.

46

I don’t believe they don’t know. They admire him for being able to avoid his bills and rape. There is no way you could not know.

If they truely do not know, they need to crawl back under their rocks. I think they voted for him because they do know and applaude his ability to slime out of anything.

47

Trump behaves the way they would if they could. They would rape, they would steal. They admire him for being openly racist.

48

I lack your black and white certainty.

I readily acknowledge that there are many who feel as you say. However, I find myself hoping/imagining that there are some folk who voted for Trump for what I’ll consider “normal” R values. Likely at least generally supporting some R positions - such as abortion, lower taxes. Maybe even desiring immigration control, tho not wishing for the extent of actions taken. Maybe some fear/dislike of what they perceive as “extreme” liberal policies. Maybe discomfort over personal difficulties in a challenging and changing economy. Maybe add in a willingness to tolerate ugliness being inflicted on others than themselves.

None of that is worthy of praise or respect. But in my mind, it is somewhat short of establishing that every single person who voted for Trump must be shunned. I may believe people are more complex - and often less introspective - than you suggest. Hell, over in the Game Room, some folk claimed they were incapable of explaining why they liked professional football. If that is the case, I can hardly expect such people to have conducted a careful analysis of how Trump’s promises/actions comport with their most deeply held views and values. (Or even that they spend much time thinking about their deepest views/values.)

49

I would ask: what is your evidence for your belief? Could it just be naive self-delusion so that you can absolve yourself of taking action?

And if some are just people who have “normal” R values, they still are supporting a lot of ugliness. Our values aren’t what we say they are, our values are what we do.

Refusing to take a stand is still taking a stand and refusing to do anything is still a choice to do something, albeit one that history has not judged well.

50

Ask them for their opinion of Liz Cheney. Then you’ll know

51

Yes this is it. It’s like cheering for the Joker in a Batman movie. That’s what they are doing.

They have been found out. But what sould they do? They will cheer for the train running off the cliff, and hope it does not take them with it.

i’m not a religious man, but I pray that everyone in his administration gets what’s coming to them. Prison. Because Good people don’t go around just killing people.

These fucks belong in prison. I doubt mental health care will help.

It’s not illegal to be stupid, but come on. You should not be allowed to vote if you have no idea that you’r voting for a traitor. FULL STOP.

52

Ask them their opinion of Trump and his presidency; all of it. Ask them about his crimes. Ask them about the rape he was found responsible for in civil trial. Ask them about Epstein. Ask them about January 6. If you won’t, you’ve picked your side.

53

They will wave it aside. “Didn’t happen”

54

I hear you but I don’t think there’s a better response than “welcome to the resistance.”

Yes, they fucked up. Yes, they were told they were fucking up, and they fucked it up anyway. Yes they will probably fuck up again.

But we have to unfuck this situation, now. We can’t afford to demonize people who say “this is bad, I didn’t want it” if they’re willing to act against it.

Of course if they’re not changing behavior, if it’s just “don’t blame me for voting R in the past, present, and future” then they’re chumps who should be roasted. So everyone has to be asked if they’ll vote Democrat next time. If not, then fuck them.

Democrats are the only credible opposition to Republican fascism, and anyone who fails to vote for them is an active and willing collaborator in fascism. There’s no gray area whatsoever. Couch-sitters and uncommitteds are pro-fascist trash and deserve unceasing scorn and mockery until they change their ways.

55

I fear those people could caucus in a Fiat 500.

56

It’s hard for people to admit they made a mistake, but most can.

But a fuck up of this magnitude just makes them dig their heals in. How do they admit that they missed what was right in front of their face?

This fuck up isn’t turning their yard brown. It’s destroying the fucking country. Hopefully it will stop there. We will need a shit ton of help.

57

I really disagree that they didn’t know what they were getting. By far the majority knew exactly what they were getting as evidenced by the fact that Trump’s polling at about what he always does.

58

I have a cousin who is MAGA. At least I assume so. My mom shared photos where he took his kid to Trump rallies during the most recent presidential campaign, where they were decked out in full Trump gear, waving MAGA flags, and so on. I haven’t really spoken to him since we were little kids (elementary school age), he’s my dad’s brother’s son. So distant, geographically (I think he lives in Florida) and in terms of not being in contact with him. There was no cutting him out of my life because he wasn’t in it.

My mom, the one who shared those photos with me (with a caption like “look how much fun they are having”) isn’t MAGA. She’s just clueless. Or was. She had a Trump bumper sticker but didn’t really know what he was about. Her main source of information is YouTube, Facebook, and relatives from rural Florida. So just imagine what she was getting. She’s also showing early stages of dementia.

On that last note, she and I have spent a lot of time together this past year, as I’ve been helping her get her life together after she let her home literally fill with garbage over the years (up to the ceiling at times), got that house sold as-is for a remarkably decent price, helped her get into a very good and very affordable senior living apartment building, and I’ve been trying to do other things for her. (She hasn’t filed taxes in years for example.)

Anyway, without being preachy, I’ve let her know what Trump is actually doing, and it’s horrible. She’s not an awful person, she just had no idea. For almost 15 years I haven’t spent much time with her, because she pushed everyone away (in-person) with depression and just tried to ignore the world, and lived on her iPhone. Now that I see her in-person frequently, and talk to her many times a week, we have talked about a lot of subjects. And that included what crazy BS is going on politically in this nation. She is horrified.

She also hasn’t voted in years, so any “support” she has given anyone has been theoretical. She has no interest in politics, she doesn’t know the issues or what’s going on in the news, and she knows it. She’s wise enough to not trust herself to weigh in on political decisions, and I respect that. She’s not a cruel person and things I told her about what Trump has been doing actually pissed her off. So whatever “philosophical” support she might have given him (as someone who supported Republicans for decades in the past) has evaporated at this point.

My mom has got to be an outlier. You have to be a total shut-in to not know what he’s about. She was that rare shut-in. I’m also proud that she actually listened to me, she read the articles I showed her, watched the videos, and all that.

I was amused when I told her about SCOTUS saying that the president can’t be prosecuted for actions he takes in the job, and my mom’s actual words were, “This country doesn’t have a king!” And I told her with amusement that there are “No Kings” rallies all over the country demonstrating on that exact point.

It’s like if you took an old school Republican, put them in a time machine to bring them in the future to today, and asked them what they thought about the Republican president. And watch their horror as they see things running amok.

59

Yup. I’ve said for quite some time that even if both major parties need to disappear, the Republicans have to disappear first.

60

Exactly. Maybe the “both parties suck, burn it all down” crowd are right. But if you don’t burn down the Republican party, then it’s going to be one party forever, which is the Republicans.

And I think the uncommitteds know that very well. Some of these people are perfectly happy to exist in opposition mode forever. They’ll torch the Democrats because the Dems won’t fight back, and then they can put on their little berets and exist perpetually in protest mode.