You Nameless, Faceless coward

The BBQ Pit
281

Uh – could I humbly suggest that everyone back off on IDBB? At least for a while?

She’s only 3 months pregnant, and because she has irregular periods, it’s likely she’s only know about it for a few weeks.

Yes, I agree that a lot of the suggestions made to her about not-working, cutting expenses, etc make sense. But, people, she’s probably got a fair bit of shock/denial going on. Of course she resists the idea of change in her life style, change she views as for the worse. Doesn’t everyone?

The really clever thing about growing babies is that it takes NINE MONTHS. That gives her six more months to gradually absorb what is happening, and consider what it may or should mean to how she lives. She doesn’t have to decide everything right now.

You don’t think she should count on working an on-your-feet job right up to birth? You’re probably right. But, you know what? If it is indeed true in her case, she’s going to find it out. She will be the one with aching feet and back. If her body isn’t up to doing it, she will hear about it loud and clear. And THEN she can decide to maybe take it easier for the final weeks or months.

You don’t think she can go back to work one week after birth? Again, you’re probably right. But if it’s so, IDBB will be told about it by her own body, in terms no one can ignore. Everything we could say now will not carry one tenth the weight of what her body will tell her then – so why not hold your tongue?

All the related decisions – about breastfeeding and pampers vs. cotton and whether they’ll have enough money to keep paying for cable and whether they should get rid of a car or move – none of them have to be made RIGHT NOW. She has months and months to think before the baby is here, and she can decide and change her mind over and over again after the baby has arrived, too.

If she still decides to work while the baby is an infant, she will have to investigate the costs, and pay them. By then, though, it is quite possible she will have ‘fallen in love’ with her newborn to the point that she won’t find the idea of being parted from it for long stretches bearable. (It happens. Ask Human Resource people how many women on maternity leave change their minds when faced with turning their 8 week old over to someone else’s care.)
I’m just saying, let’s stop jumping on her, okay? She seems to be closing her eyes to some aspects you think are obvious, but NONE of the things that have been brought up are harming her baby now. So long as she’s getting prenatal care and eating properly and not drinking, well, the baby inside should be fine. Bashing her until she accepts you are right/she is wrong is NOT some urgent, child-protection action you are morally obligated to do now.

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You’re new here, aren’t you?

283

Thanks again, Fizz and 'punha. The LJ is up and running now. Just look under Gobear to check it out.

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IFor what it may be worth, I wouldn’t still be paying her one lick of attention were it not for the fact that, assuming she IS for real, she’s got a kid to take care of and she looks, at best, ill-prepared. At worst … well, worse.

I have no qualms ignoring people who are merely trying to take others for a ride alone. But if there is the possibility, as there is here, that there is another human being involved who would be directly (and very possibly negatively) affected by the decisions she makes, or fails to make, or refuses to make, or can’t make, or whatever … then I don’t care much if I am being fooled. If this is all someone’s idea of a joke, then I can look back on it and gain insight into how it was done. And maybe someone else will have benefitted from the advice I and others have posted.

There is still the very real possibility, to me, that she is just a girl with a very bad sense of her finances, and decision-making skills that are not much better, and a very incomplete and injured sense of herself. And assuming that is the case, I do still hold out hope that I’ll be able to help her.

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StarvingButStrong, thank you for putting into words what I have been feeling for the last 24 hours or so since I came across this thread, but was not sure how to phrase. A pregnant-for-the-first-time mum is ever-so-idealistic about all sorts of things that often fall by the wayside as the realities of pregnancy/birth/babies hit us. We DO change our minds, and things that once seemed earth-shatteringly important to us take on a different perspective once a new being makes his/her presence felt.

And much of the criticism of IDBB/Maven has been more that…“Oh, why are we bothering…she NEVER listens to people”…which is the very best way to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s old shit that is being regurgitated for the sake of allowing some around these parts to pat each other on their self-satisfied backs. Is this a competition to see who can be the most indignant or the most righteous?

You know what? If I had started such a thread expressing my anxiety and uncertainty only to be piled upon by you mob, I’d be scared-off too. What a way to help her gain some confidence and excitement about her pregnancy and insight about the realities of child-rearing…telling her (amongst other nasty put-downs) to give the baby up for adoption because she is bound to be a hopeless loser? Fuck. :frowning:

Yes, IDBB/Maven is naive about what is involved in bringing up kids. But weren’t we all before we had 'em? She’ll learn along the way, just like we all did…but the vicious attacks she has recieved here might well put her off EVER seeking help or advice from ANYBODY in the future.

Give her a bloody break peoples. Those horses you are on seem to be awfully high up, and this pile-on is extremely ugly.

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Everything I’ve wanted to say has already been said.

I feel sorry for the baby. I remember when all I_Dig_Bad_Hair did was bitch about not wanting kids and hating kids and how annoying kids were and what-not, and now she’s having a kid that’s already being referred to as the “damn kid.”

Newsflash: All those annoying kids you whine about? A lot of them are that way because they have parents that don’t care about them.

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I dunno, I thought it was a competition to see who could get through to her first.

And then, at all.

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May I humbly suggest that the BEST way to ‘get through’ to someone is not via the process of telling them that they are completely fucked, and that the child they are carrying is doomed to a life of abuse because of their audacity to have some concerns about the financial implications of having that child.

Maybe you lot should keep your ‘advice’ to yourselves.

:rolleyes:

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May I humbly suggest that you read the advice she has been getting before you so aptly sum it all up as “telling them that they are completely fucked”?

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kambuckta: May I humbly suggest you take your little sarcastic smiley and go back to the OP, read through this thread’s terrifyingly vacuous snippets of post-modern Americana, and take a stroll in a stultifying cloud of Tommy Girl and TRESemme via her Public Diary. Finally, please consider the manifest flaws in her reasoning and reactions; her baby faces a very difficult childhood.

Maven shredded our sensibilities like a cold Arbor Mist through a paper sack at a tailgate party.

This “tough love?” Ain’t sayin’ it’s right, just sayin’ it’s necessary.
(Of course, none of this matters because she’s really just some Dartmouth undergrad’s SCIENCE BOWL project.)

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You know what pisses me off so much about all this? Not that I’m sure she’s completely full of shit from the $500 furniture to possibly even the pregnancy itself but the fact that can be this cavalier about having a (real or not) baby. Even if she’s not really pregnant, there are many people who think just like her who are and that is disgusting.

Wonderful potential parents like Jar are out there aching to hold their own child in their arms and provide for him/her and this miserable excuse calls it a “damn kid” and laments how it is screwing up her life. She’s too proud to go on assistance. She claims to be too wealthy but there are ways to fix that. I know that Jar would chew off her own hand in order to qualify for disability if that was the only way she could afford to take proper care of her child.

It just makes me hurt that people who can be so dismissive of kids have them and people like Jar who would stop at nothing to ensure her child had the best possible future don’t.

Life isn’t fair, I know. But it still hurts that it isn’t.

I think she’s a complete fraud but for the life of me, I cannot let it go on the slight chance that this selfish creature might actually be preparing to bring a life into the world that she refuses to provide for.
–Beth
Busily trying to teach pigs to sing…

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I DID read through the entire thread Mr. B. And the LJ stuff too iampunha. While the stuff in the LJ was initally supportive, the most terrifyingly vacuous snippets of post-modern Americana are evidenced by those posters here who have been the most strident in their condemnation of Maven.

Yes, there ARE flaws in Maven’s reasoning and reactions. Yes, she does have a lot to learn about what is involved in bringing up kids. But as I noted in my previous post, that is something that ALL parents face when they encounter their first pregnancy…trying to reconcile the ideals with the realities…and eventually the realities win. Heaping criticism of the type that has been piled upon Maven in this instance does nothing but salve the pompous self-righteousness of the posters who have ‘contributed’ to this thread.

I hope it all makes you feel better about yourselves.

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I hope knowing that someone who refuses to heed advice from people who have experience in this matter and continues to insist that she shall continue no matter what to act in her completely selfish way will soon be responsible for another human life makes you feel comfortable.

Because it sure doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Several people tried to be nice. Hell, for some reason, some are still being nice to her.

I understand that having a baby requires some adjustment. But after the baby is born is a little too late to start adjusting. She has time to plan–she needs to use it.

Pregnancy can cause constipation but she’s ful of shit in a different way.

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The trouble, Kambuckta, is that this isn’t the first time that Maven has gone the ‘pity me’ route. If it were only this thread then, yeah, you’d have a point.

But she’s got a history of doing the ‘life’s so difficult for poor little me and it hurts’ thing - she solicits pity, people offer practical ideas to help. She either ignores them or comes up with reasons why not. First time around is one thing, but this thread is hardly that; she’s got a solid track record of being, at best, a drama queen. I’m not saying she doesn’t genuinely feel put-upon or whatever - but she’s not doing anything to improve her situation, just ignoring good ideas, sticking her fingers in her ears and singing “La la la, I can’t hear you” a lot. She may be in difficult situations, but she doesn’t appear all that interested in improving them, just complaining.

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Well even negative feedback can help hehe

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But Tav, regardless of Maven’s previous history on this board, her OP was not a ‘pity post’ but a whinge against someone who she interpreted as being condemnatory of her decision, for economic reasons, to return to work ASAP as soon as the baby was born.

It was THEN that others jumped in to join in the chorus of Maven as lacking commonsense, then lacking normal maternal feelings, and even going so far as to suggest that the baby would be better off being aborted or adopted. All because she expressed concern about her ability to give her kid the opportunities that she had missed out on when she was growing up.

People make all sorts of decisions, some based on necessity and some based on personal greed and selfishness. I chose to spend the greater part of my own kids’ childhoods being a stay at home mum (interspersed with casual jobs like house-cleaning and courier driving…jobs where I could take the tackers along with me if absolutely necessary). But not everybody has the same concessions that I had.

And I suspect Maven will come to understand the need for ‘juggling’ just as well as most mothers do, in due time. Sheesh…she’s only just found out she is pregnant, and there is an awful lot of adjusting to do. She may well take some of the advice that has been offered here on board (and I do hope she does), but the vitriolic put-downs are, in my opinion, unnecessary and counterproductive.

Basically, bugger the ‘history’. If we were all to be automatically judged and executed by the quality of our previous posting history, then most of us would be doomed.

What I’m saying is that, here is a young woman who has just discovered she is pregnant. She is perhaps a bit ambivalent about the prospect of a child, and is also very concerned about how they will cope with the financial ramifications of having a baby. Sounds pretty normal to me.

But our dear fellow dopers have chosen to seize upon Maven MAINLY because of her past posting history. And instead of giving her some support and empathy, have chosen to denigrate her choices and condemn her for even considering that she might make it as a mother.

And, quite frankly, such attitudes really disgust me. There’s no guarantees with parenting. People generally do the best they can with the resources and information that are available to them. Maven too will do the best she can, and even though her choices might not end up being ‘acceptable’ to you dooms-dayers, I suggest that you shove your premature judgements right up your arses.

If Maven’s kid ends up on America’s Most Wanted in 28 years time, THEN you can all go pat each other on the back for your incredible insight into the lives of this family. Until then, shut the fuck up, and let her alone.

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Difficult as it may be to believe, some of us actually do not want to wait for this to happen.

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THe people who have been most persistent in their comments have been those who have carefully, logically and rationally displaying precicely what lifestyle changes she COULD make, how going back to work at a shitty fast-food job WILL actually cost MORE than staying home would, and other helpful tips. Even in her stupid journal most of the comments have been nothing but helpful.

The helpful comments are the ones to which she most carefully does NOT reply. She will dissect a post which says something she doesn’t like and with which some might disagree - like evilbeth’s - but she has not responded to a single person who has offered helpful advice.

I’ve been down on this chick for at least a year, because I’ve found her irritating, moronic, and eye-rollingly awful for a long time. I haven’t sought her out - but when she’s all but screamed “SCHOOL ME! SCHOOL ME!” I’ve been glad to oblige. However, a lot of people in this thread (and others, and in her journal) have gone out of their way to be nothing but kind, helpful, and accomodating. A lot of people have offered her email addys, phone numbers, access to IMs…just so they could talk to her NICELY.

I’m sure they ARE proud of themselves, and one of the things I’ve found most remarkable is this chick’s ability to make even friendly, helpful, kind people say “MY GOD, YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT!”

I sure hope SHE is proud of HERself for this.

And much of this was before there was a breath of knowledge that she was pregnant, so I really think blaming it on the hormones or the situation is disingenuous at best.

Me, I’m not proud of myself. I’m not proud of myself when I scream obscenities at annoying politicians, either; but I’m also not at all ashamed.

I think at best she’s a fucking moron, and at worst she’s an attnetion-whoring troll. Either way, I consider her AND her situation to be nothing more or less than light entertainment, and I am far more sorry for the people who have put their hearts into trying to help her than I am - or shall ever be - for her.

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About a year posting, another before that lurking. Is that relevant? Does that refute the points I tried to make in my post?

If your point is simply that a cycle of

A) IDBB says something the majority of Dopers disagree with/disapprove of
B) Dozens of posters attempt to explain to her why she is wrong and they right and THIS is what she should do instead
C) IDBB ignores the advice and/or dismisses it with "But"s

has happened before, I know. I’ve read some of those threads, and at least once I was one of the people offering advice.

Doesn’t that reinforce MY point? Those of you now feeling ‘compelled’ to offer advice/warnings/predictions of disaster: what makes YOU think this time will be diferent? She’s ignored having advice etc. repeated at her over and over and over in the past, aren’t you just offering more now? Somehow you believe THIS time will be different? Ever heard that catch-phrase definition of insanity?

What you (you being everyone who keeps telling IDBB she’s wrong, naive, ignorant, hopeless) are doing is psychologically wrong if your real motivation is to get IDBB to make changes you feel are vital for the future well-being of her child. You don’t convince someone to change their minds by backing them into a corner and screaming at them. You point out info they may not have, and then you give them time to think. You may think IDBB hasn’t heard you, but that can’t be true. She’s heard your points. Right now she’s doing her best to avoid thinking about them, but they’re in her mind. As months pass, they will percolate. As the child grows and moves and becomes more and more a person to her, its needs will probably take greater place in her thinking. As her body changes with pregnancy, the points about what she will and won’t want to do physically will inevitably sink in.

So, LET IT GO for now. Give her room and time to think things over.

And guess what? She may never agree with you on some of those points. She’s an independent being with her own mind, and the right to her own views. People are allowed to have different views on how to raise their children. When and if you see that her actions are harming the child, THEN you can report her to whatever government agencies are appropriate. Who may reach different conclusions than you expect, anyway. All we have are brief, out-of-context snippets from people’s posts. The officials will be able to view things in real life.
Finally: I am very sorry for anyone who is childless against their wishes. It’s a terrible sorrow to bear. But IDBB’s pregnancy has NOT created your problem, and the fact that others have these problems is not a telling argument for IDBB to change her actions. Blame your body/genetics/God/Mother Nature/Random Chance or whatever for your lack of children. It’s not like there is a limited supply of embryos to go around, and IDBB has snatched up one you might have otherwise gotten. Whatever irony you perceive in someone else’s getting haphazardly what you have vainly sought, and the pain it brings you, well, again that is not IDBB’s goal. IDBB is not behaving as she is to rub salt in your wounds, she’s just doing what she percieves as best for herself right now.

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Problem is, this is the truth for the most part. Functionally saying ‘screw the damn kid, I’m not gonna be a shameful stay at home mom!’ ‘I’m gonna go back to work a week after the baby is born!’ She is not only endangering the baby, she is endangering herself. She has the right to do that, but not a week old baby.