You-Solve-It Mafia Game

The Game Room
301

Now I’ve caught up, I understand your suggested procedure a bit better.

Nevertheless, you are discriminating against me, a citizen of a state other than the US. This is an arbitrary distinction, and when we return I will be making a formal complaint to Human Resources about your discriminatory behaviour.

I have not yet thought through the issues about whether or not revealing dossiers is a pro-town action. You’ll have to give me a few hours to think the issue through.

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(Sorry if I sounded a bit sharp, but the assumption that we’d all know what you were on about irked me. A lot.

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302

[QUOTE=MHaye]

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(Sorry if I sounded a bit sharp, but the assumption that we’d all know what you were on about irked me. A lot.

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[/QUOTE]

I thought it was a wonderfully pan-global random number generator that zuma came up with… after all, nobody, either American, European or otherwise cares about the NBA, right?

303

I am posting from my phone so ill be brief. mhaye sorry for the american centric thing. diomedes sums up my feelings. mhaye please be ready to reveal after rysto tnday. i too will vote rysto if he refuses to reveal

304

Also mhaye was riight. i did not even use the word us basketball. id be irked too. consider me slapped by hr. but us basketball games have the advantage of being high scoring and a good random no. generator for our game.

305

Rugger’s dossier

This is what I have put together from his death post

One of my high school classmates was killed in the attack on the USS Stark.
I have performed an exorcism
I believe that zombies are inherently funny

These ones are pretty certain, the top one being his public attribute, the next 2 after that matching with hawkeyepop and MHaye’s public attributes. These next ones are a guess from the death text

I have eaten Rocky Mountain Oysters
I have eaten at Fat Tuesdays with Ricky Plant

has anyone got anything better?

306

Last post from my phone. i agre with din that we nef to get thir rolling. if mhaye agrees that he was chosen randomly, then i proposd that he reveaj today whether or not rysto refuses.

307

[QUOTE=zuma]
Also mhaye was riight. i did not even use the word us basketball. id be irked too. consider me slapped by hr. but us basketball games have the advantage of being high scoring and a good random no. generator for our game.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you zuma. I’ll withdraw my planned complaint to HR.

I’m fully on board with the need to uncover the Silent Pigs[sup]1[/sup] and impose Company discipline. I was going to propose defenestration from the dining-hall, which has such a spectacular view of the plummet into the ravine.

I now have a better understanding of your rationale for the proposed determination. I do think we need a method capable of generating a wide band of numbers. My counter-proposal would be using the highest run-scorer from a sequence of one-day cricket matches - the Cricket World Cup played earlier this year provides a suitably large series of games. (Hands up who here plays cricket? Or even would have known about the Cricket World Cup, absent the sensationalism?)

My core hesitation though is still that I’m uncertain about whether this is ultimately a good plan for those of us who are not Silent Pigs. Give me a few more hours to think about it, OK?

[sup]1[/sup]A friend of mine on another board has a sig that reads

“If a pig loses his voice, is he disgruntled?”

Hence Disgruntled Associates L.L.P. is composed of Silent Pigs.

308

It seems that the Town is leaning towards a mass dossier reveal. I’m not quite convinced yet. Hockey Monkey’s revelation:

[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey]
Apparently I share an attribute with a killer because I once drove a VW Beetle through the front door of a 7-11. Knowing that I am a very happy and satisfied associate, I now know that the disgruntleds do not have “unique only to scum” attributes. I have no idea how this puzzle is going to be put together in the end. I think it is some sort of logic puzzle, and I’m fairly good at those.
[/QUOTE]

So either Hockey Monkey is Town who happens to share a commonality with Santo Rugger’s killer.
OR
She’s scum.

I’m leaning towards Hockey Monkey being town because jumping out and saying what Santo Rugger’s death post means is pro-town. But it would also be a feasible move by scum to do the same. So do we lynch Hockey Monkey or not (rhetorical)? If we reveal Dossiers, I fear that we will be tempted to lynch people who share attributes with scum rather than actual scum.

If we reveal Dossiers, I think scum will be able to use that information to manipulate us. Scum will lie to their best advantage, and kill based on dossier information to their advantage, not ours.

The only compelling reason put out so far for revealing dossiers is the possibility that we might be able to discern lies. While this might be true, we don’t know that this is the case or that our analysis of the dossiers will accurately point to lying scum. (In other words, we don’t know that lies will be apparent to us, and we don’t know whether or not NAF/mtgman gave a few pro-town roles anomalous, fake-looking dossiers). If we choose to reveal dossiers and our analyses fail to turn up scum then we will have given up much for very little.

309

[QUOTE=sachertorte]

The only compelling reason put out so far for revealing dossiers is the possibility that we might be able to discern lies. While this might be true, we don’t know that this is the case or that our analysis of the dossiers will accurately point to lying scum. (In other words, we don’t know that lies will be apparent to us, and we don’t know whether or not NAF/mtgman gave a few pro-town roles anomalous, fake-looking dossiers). If we choose to reveal dossiers and our analyses fail to turn up scum then we will have given up much for very little.
[/QUOTE]

I fail to see what we’ll have given up. The dossiers are information that will point towards scum… I fail to see how the town is going to do -anything- with the information contained within the dossiers unless we pool our information. If we don’t pool our information, we have a very small chance of winning (we go to lynch or lose on Day Five, with no cop to guide us or doc to extend that).

310

May I suggest a small change for determining our schedule? I’d prefer to get the whole schedule set tonight, so instead of using NBA games from tomorrow to set the last two positions why not use NHL games? There are 11 games scheduled to start tonight at 7 PM Eastern or later. I propose using the aggregate score of 6 of those games to determine the 14th position and the aggregate score of the other 5 to determine the 15th position(the 16th position is no longer necessary because Hockey Monkey revealed her dossier).

For the 14th position let’s use the following games:
CBJ/BOS
CHI/BUF
TOR/MON
ATL/OTT
PIT/NYI
CAR/PHI

For the 15th position:
FLA/DET
WAS/TBL
NAS/COL
VAN/EDM
MIN/LAK

Is this ok with everybody?

311

Hey guys, sorry to be so silent…

I’m going to try to catch up today and tomorrow…have had some off-board things to deal with. I read a bit about the random procedure for revealing dossiers. I think it looks good…

312

[QUOTE=Rysto]
May I suggest a small change for determining our schedule? I’d prefer to get the whole schedule set tonight, so instead of using NBA games from tomorrow to set the last two positions why not use NHL games? There are 11 games scheduled to start tonight at 7 PM Eastern or later. I propose using the aggregate score of 6 of those games to determine the 14th position and the aggregate score of the other 5 to determine the 15th position(the 16th position is no longer necessary because Hockey Monkey revealed her dossier).

For the 14th position let’s use the following games:
CBJ/BOS
CHI/BUF
TOR/MON
ATL/OTT
PIT/NYI
CAR/PHI

For the 15th position:
FLA/DET
WAS/TBL
NAS/COL
VAN/EDM
MIN/LAK

Is this ok with everybody?
[/QUOTE]

Looks great. We’re stil lstarting with you, though.

313

Folks -

Just arrived home from an extended period away from my computer, and I’m sorry to throw stuff out there and then disappear on the conversation. I am absolutely too tired to compose a coherent post of any length or substance right now, but will certainly do so tomorrow. In the meanwhile, whether or not we choose to reveal dossiers en masse, I have two suggestions that I genuinely can’t see a downside to:

  1. If you are Night killed, make certain to reveal every element of your dossier in your final post; otherwise we will lose the information in question for ever and ever.

  2. Similarly, if you are pro-town, and if you are about to be lynched - post your dossier before you die. Your death will confirm the truth of your list. Since, as far as I can tell, lynch-ees don’t get to write a death scene, there will be no post-lynch opportunity to share the information that only you have.

Anyone disagree with either of these points?

More tomorrow.

314

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]

  1. If you are Night killed, make certain to reveal every element of your dossier in your final post; otherwise we will lose the information in question for ever and ever.

  2. Similarly, if you are pro-town, and if you are about to be lynched - post your dossier before you die. Your death will confirm the truth of your list. Since, as far as I can tell, lynch-ees don’t get to write a death scene, there will be no post-lynch opportunity to share the information that only you have.

Anyone disagree with either of these points?

[/QUOTE]

I completely agree with #1.

I’m confused about #2. Given that the dead person writes their own death scene, how does their death confirm their list?

315

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
I completely agree with #1.

I’m confused about #2. Given that the dead person writes their own death scene, how does their death confirm their list?
[/QUOTE]

I knew I didn’t explain that one correctly. Say Poster X is pro-town, but knows he is about to be lynched. His best defense has gone for naught; we are a crazed mob. His last act should be to post his dossier. When he dies, and his pro-town identity is confirmed, we will know that - because he is pro-town and has no reason to lie - he was telling the truth.

316

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
I fail to see what we’ll have given up. The dossiers are information that will point towards scum… I fail to see how the town is going to do -anything- with the information contained within the dossiers unless we pool our information. If we don’t pool our information, we have a very small chance of winning (we go to lynch or lose on Day Five, with no cop to guide us or doc to extend that).
[/QUOTE]

I have similar reservations to the Dossier reveal plan that **sachertorte **has expressed. But perhaps I am just not understanding, so I’m hoping you and/or **Pleonast **could spell it out for me.

Let’s assume for a moment that we all go forward with the plan as you and others have outlined. OK, then all the information is there on the table. Presumably scum will lie about some or all of their traits. Presumably Town will be straight-up and post their true lists.

What next? How do we use the information to catch scum? What exactly is the plan?

Here’s one problem I foresee: Let’s suppose for example that one of my traits is “I played college football until I got injured.” (It’s not, really). Let’s further suppose that a couple of scum share this trait with me, but lie about it. Then one of them kills you, and you see that your killer played college football until he got injured. Where does that leave me? I’ll have suspicion all over me for having that trait, whereas the real scum are happily hiding and voting for me! Since scum are going to lie about their lists, how do we really glean anything true?

Can someone please tell me what I’m overlooking here?

I really think we need to think this through. I look forward to having my fears allayed.

317

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
I knew I didn’t explain that one correctly. Say Poster X is pro-town, but knows he is about to be lynched. His best defense has gone for naught; we are a crazed mob. His last act should be to post his dossier. When he dies, and his pro-town identity is confirmed, we will know that - because he is pro-town and has no reason to lie - he was telling the truth.
[/QUOTE]

Ah, got it - makes perfect sense now.

318

Everyone who dies will have the opportunity to write a death scene. Unless you’re modkilled. No info about scum will be revealed to lynchees, but they still get a chance to post their closing thoughts, as it were.

Enjoy,
Steven

319

I really do believe that we’re best served by revealing the dossier contents, but am open to further discussion on the matter.

In the present situation, I can see absolutely no downside to increasing the net amount of information possessed by the group as a whole, because with the exception of the “7% secret,” about which I think speculation is basically useless, there’s no way for information to help the scum. Their entire goal is going to be to force five mislynches. The simplest answer to the fear that ShadowFacts raised is simply not to rely exclusively on dossier clues to find scum. We’ll have to do behavior analysis in addition, and use the puzzle represented by the dossiers to supplement, not replace, that analysis.

More on this tomorrow, but for now, how about some of that behavior analysis:

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
That’s really the key. If the scum are smart, they’ll have already compiled their dossier information, and taken a good look at what the public reveals were. (Those were set at the time of PMing… leading me to believe that if we can solve the logic puzzle that is the dossier, the public reveals will be a key to determining the scum…)
Now that three players have publicly shown their hand, the scum will have even more information with which to decode their dossier, and determine what they need to conceal collectively. If we don’t force their hand toDay, they’re that much further ahead.
We need some sort of impetus to force Dossier-claims. I can think of only one.

unvote: faithfool
vote: Rysto
[/QUOTE]

Color removed for clarity.

No.

Just no.

I disagree with Rysto on this subject. His opinion seems to be in the minority. But that does not make him scum, or even scummy. These games have turned into festivals of lynching people with minority opinions on strategy. It’s an easy reason to vote for someone - “he has an idea with which a lot of people disagree! Let’s string him up!” This is a bad way to identify scum, and I’ll be pickled and forced into twenty-five hours of SOP Training before I’ll let this group go down that road again.

It’s a bad way to identify scum.

But it’s a good, easily defensible way to get townies to vote for another townie. And so I’m going to:

vote Diomedes

320

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
I have similar reservations to the Dossier reveal plan that **sachertorte **has expressed. But perhaps I am just not understanding, so I’m hoping you and/or **Pleonast **could spell it out for me.

Let’s assume for a moment that we all go forward with the plan as you and others have outlined. OK, then all the information is there on the table. Presumably scum will lie about some or all of their traits. Presumably Town will be straight-up and post their true lists.

What next? How do we use the information to catch scum? What exactly is the plan?

Here’s one problem I foresee: Let’s suppose for example that one of my traits is “I played college football until I got injured.” (It’s not, really). Let’s further suppose that a couple of scum share this trait with me, but lie about it. Then one of them kills you, and you see that your killer played college football until he got injured. Where does that leave me? I’ll have suspicion all over me for having that trait, whereas the real scum are happily hiding and voting for me! Since scum are going to lie about their lists, how do we really glean anything true?

Can someone please tell me what I’m overlooking here?

I really think we need to think this through. I look forward to having my fears allayed.
[/QUOTE]

Assumeably the information can determine who the scum are, we just need to learn how to interpret it. Now given we have no idea what the pattern is, and that are information is going to be less then 100% accurate, this will be a difficult task. I think having scum have entirely different traits then town folk is too easy, but there has to be something. Maybe for each trait there are 2 town folks who share and 1 scum. Not that obviously, as the math doesn’t quite work, but something. And the more information we have, the better shot we have at figuring out what the pattern is.

On the other hand, I also think there may be a hidden mechanic that allows the scum to use this information to their advantage which is what has kept me from being 100% behind this idea.