You underestimate the power of “Couldn’t be bothered”. After a string of romantic frustrations, I went through a serious “to Hell with 'em” stage. I mean, I seriously, sincerely could give a flying turd what women or anyone else thought about me. When I went out, I was going out. Having fun. Period. No male gaze, no chatting up, no gratuitous compliments, no wanna-dance, buy-you-a-drinks, nothing. Not because I was trying to play hard to get, I was honestly of the attitude the female half of the species could go jump as far as I was concerned. First time in my life I really felt that way.
The results were astonishing. I am not a Cassinova by any stretch of the wildest imagination, and yet within months I was in a position where I could choose between which of three smart, attractive women I was going to pursue, because it was clear even to my idiot self that they were very interested in being pursued. I have experienced nothing like that in my entire life, and it truly freaked me right the hell out. It was like George Costanza exclaiming I’d discovered plutonium by accident. I chose well, and we’re now happily married. So go figure. No one should try to be like this. You can’t. One has to arrive at it somehow through trial and tribulation, and there’s no formula to follow. But when it happens, it’s like a 2x4 to the head. I don’t even understand it to this day, I just know it happened.
I do say good job to Argent Towers on realizing the error of his ways. I think it’s pretty important, the discussion of ingrained reactions.
I mean my goodness, the thought being auto-labelled a pretentious whore because I didn’t have sex with the first couple of boyfriends who wanted me to (being both underaged and disinclined) but decided to work with another boyfriend of a different ethnicity later on, because I wanted to and felt it was time, and not because I was duped by an accent - Geez, I’d be afraid to interact with anyone at all.
Those kinds of kneejerk reactions (whore, bitch, deserving of bad things) scare me, as does the fact that so many people think in this way.
Of course had she specifically implied she’d made an exception to her rule because they were Italian, well, that may or may not make her stupid if true (but still not a whore.
Unless they paid her.)
But in reality, I really just don’t think that rule was as important to her as she made it seem to you guys.
Coming home and telling you guys (or just you, and them by proxy) about it, though, that’s the part that is beyond me. Like she’s either got a shitty memory or clearly wanted to rub it in your faces (no extra pun intended). Either way, I’d find THAT nastily insensitive, and why continue to hang out with her? She does sound like less than a stellar buddy, for lots of other reasons.
But I’m glad you understand that the mere exclusion of sex from a relationship doesn’t *have *to cause ‘anguish’.
Kudos to the OP for retracting. Pride is a bitter pill to swallow, but the act does you good.
But damn you for spoiling my fun. I’ll therefore try to poke a hole in the bits that haven’t been retracted:
Speaking as a coffee lover, anyone who claims that preferring Italian, as in made-and-drunk-in-Italy, coffee is “pretentious” has clearly never tasted the stuff in Italy. It’s not “pretentious” to prefer it, it’s “discerning”, and IMO “completely correct”. It’s an almost totally different drink.
In fact, anyone who claims that someone who prefers something foreign to something at home is “pretentious” is usually (though not always, of course) someone who hasn’t been there. Sometimes stuff overseas can be better, like it or not.
Finally, speaking as a man whose lovely wife was deflowered in Italy by an Italian; who drove a Ferrari; and was a bodyguard to a mafia judge; and drove her, after a romantic candlelit dinner, into the mountains above Rome, and let her shoot his revolver into a valley… I’d have to just the poor young things don’t stand a chance. And nor do we.
I can just, just, just barely see the kind of situation where the girlfriend tells everybody about her… ahem, experiences in Italy because, just quite maybe possibly, she thinks the guys are her friends and would be happy for her.
Well, if nothing else, they are all talking about her sex life when she *isn’t[/] there–he knows exactly which “bases” his friend got to, and how the other two fared–so why shouldn’t she/they talk about her sex life when she is there?
Yeah, that bothered me more and more as the thread went on. I wouldn’t date three friends from the same circle anyway, but I guess this is another reason why.
I’ve ploughed through this thread.
My comment (and I’m very surprised no one else has mentioned this) - this is what comes from going for hot babes with great looks!
Wait until you’re older when you’ll discover the delights of less ‘hot on the outside’ women.
Ever notice? When women lose the man they want to another woman, they blame themselves. When men lose the woman they want to another man, they blame the woman.
I run into this a lot, being a foodie. If someone discovers I prefer real parmigiano to the green stuff in a can, that person might very well label me “pretentious”. I don’t know what they think I’m “pretending” to be - I just prefer one thing over another. I don’t refer to enthusiasts in other fields as pretentious. If someone likes, say, Harley Davidsons as compared to Indians, I don’t call them pretentious. I just don’t get the whole concept.
And our first trip to Europe completely changed our coffee habits forever. We promptly invested in our first espresso machine and started buying artisan coffee beans. We now buy “Caffe del Doge” beans from Venice and anyone who doesn’t approve can blow it out their ass.
Well, I am damn glad I am in my forties then. I can go to the bar, find a lady my age I can rap with, have a couple beers, maybe a couple shots, bullshit for a couple hours, and then I will say “So, want to come over and have a beer?”
Which at our age means “Want to come over and get laid?”
And she will say either “Let’s go baby” or “no thanks” or “You don’t even remember my fucking name you dumbass!” :smack:
No games, no bullshit, works well for the most part.
[ul]Kate had been shagging Neil behind her husband’s back. When Neil found himself someone who was half his age and not the wife of the man he’d been best man to, Kate was most indignant with Neil and not especially with Nicola - at least, she rhetorically enquired whether I’d mind punching Neil in the nose for her.
[li]Kate had been trying to attract Howard and unfortunately he told her he’d be delighted once she was free and single. Kate was miffed with Howard.[/li][li]Annie became snarlingly infuriated with me whenever I even looked at another woman, whether or not there was the least danger I’d ever go for it or be in with a shout if I did.[/ul][/li]
So it certainly can be our fault, and IME the last thing women do is blame themselves as Rilch asserted.
(I hear where they’ll smarten themselves up, lose weight, learn to give proper BJs and so on, all to make their ex realize what he’s missing, possibly with the hope that he’ll beg her to take him back so she can say “No”. I get the impression that women will do far more to spite an ex-partner than they’ll do to please their current one. But I realize that this may be just the curmudgeonliness talking.)
