Do we want comic book discussion in the weekly Walking Dead tv show threads?

We were arguing about whether or not we should discuss the comic books in the threads discussing the tv show, “The Walking Dead,” and have been instructed by Twickster to take it to another thread and figure out what the majority wishes.

So, my proposal - no discussion of the comic books in the tv show discussion threads. No spoilers, the comic books simply don’t exist for these discussions.

Other people have put forth the idea of discussing the comic books in spoilers; I’m not a fan of that since you get threads that are spoiler after spoiler, and I don’t like that, but if that’s what the majority wants, that’s what we’ll do.

We could also add discussions of the comic books right into the tv show threads openly, if that’s what the majority wants. You can probably guess how I feel about that. :slight_smile:

I vote that we keep doing it the way we’ve always done it.

Posted in the other thread about TWD and spoilers:

Let’s start with this season’s threads. To find the examples, on each page I did a text search for “comic” and then manually scanned the full page for spoiler boxes. It’s possible that there even more comic references than the examples I found with my quick search and scan technique.

The Walking Dead; 5.01 “No Santuary” (open spoilers)
Comics are discussed. It’s mentioned that the comics are as much about rebuilding as they are about fighting zombies. Someone says they want the spin-off to leave the comics behind. Not one single complaint or even mention that comics are off-topic for the thread.

The Walking Dead; 5.02 “Strangers” (open spoilers)
The comics come up many times. Nobody ever changes clothes because that’s how comic books work. Someone says they like Father Gabriel better in the show than the comics, and they’re excited to see what elements of the comics are used for him. A spoiler box explains a comic plotline about the preacher. Another spoiler box explains that in the comics, the zombie lady with glasses that freaks the preacher out was his wife. Not one single complaint or even mention that comics are off-topic for the thread.

The Walking Dead; 5.03 “Four Walls and a Roof” (open spoilers)
The comics come up. Someone mentions that Abraham and Eugene don’t feel like real people; they have a distinct comic book quality to them. Someone else comments that while reading the entire comics run, it occurred to them that we’re all member of the walking dead. A reply spoiler boxes that Rick says exactly that early on in the comics. Not one single complaint or even mention that comics are off-topic for the thread.

The Walking Dead 5.04 “The Slab” (open spoilers)
No mention of the comics. I’m frankly surprised that there was any thread this season where the comics didn’t come up.

The Walking Dead; 5.05 “Self Help” (open spoilers)
Someone asks if Eugene was in the comics, and if so was he more believable? It’s answered that yes, and comic Eugene is roughly the same as tv show Eugene, but his lie was more believable in the comics. It’s also mentioned that the guy who plays Abraham explained the backstory to the grocery store massacre on the Talking Dead. Special note: On the Talking Dead, he explicitly explained that he was describing the backstory from the comics. It’s here when people make up a new rule about “comics don’t exist” and it snowballs from there.

I stand by what I said in the thread:

I think I’ve shown here that the “comics don’t exist” has not been a rule so far this season. I may do a similar breakdown for the other seasons depending on how motivated I get.

I think that’s an awful idea, and would be a radical departure from longstanding precedent.

I lurk in these threads but I’m not an active poster. So my thoughts probably don’t carry as much weight as the active posters but for what it’s worth… I’m not particularly bothered by the comic material but I think the whole matter could be easily dealt with by spoilering any comics reference. Just give any mention of comics stuff like

Like so:
<QUOTE><B><SIZE=“2”>Comics</SIZE></B>
<Spoiler> stuff </spoiler></QUOTE>
</CODE>
Just swap <> for to get:

Pretty simple and everybody wins.

Looking at the threads for the first half of season 4:

“The Walking Dead”; Episode 4:1 tonight
Comics are discussed. Someone comments that they didn’t like the Governor in the comics, and tv Gorvernor bored him. Someone comments that the word “zombie” is never used in the show or in the comics, plus that the comics was more about the end of the world and less about zombies specifically. Someone else points out that in the comic, and in the show, the whole premise is stunningly nihilistic. If the premise is that nothing will ever go well, don’t make things go badly due to stupidity. Not one single complaint or even mention that comics are off-topic for the thread.

The Walking Dead; 4.02 “Infected” (open spoilers)
No mention of the comics.

The Walking Dead; 4.03 “Isolation” (open spoilers)
Someone points out that one of the complaints about the comics is that all the characters have the same personality, which matches some of the complaints in the thread about the show. Someone else agrees about the comics but points out it may be tough with such a large cast and black and white art. Not one single complaint or even mention that comics are off-topic for the thread.

The Walking Dead; 4.04 “Indifference” (open spoilers)
Tons of comics discussion. It’s openly stated that killing Rick would be a radical departure from the comics. This is responded to with discussion of why, NOT complaints about spoilers from the comics. Someone else comments that the show is trying to touch on all the same issues as the comics. Someone comments that Tyreese seems useless, which draws a reply with a spoiler-boxed description of Tyreese’s role in the comics. That’s replied to with what amounts to “Cool, thanks, didn’t read the comics so didn’t know.” Someone else comments that they hope the show writers leave the comics behind. Another person comments that the original comics are about the end of the world, not zombies. Someone half-mocks the silly characters from the comics fitting into a real-world scenario like a “council.” To quote: “I keep forgetting this is a comic book adaptation. Okay, chick with a sword, guy with a crossbow, cowboy sheriff - alright.” Not one single complaint or even mention that comics are off-topic for the thread.

The Walking Dead; 4.05 “Internment” (open spoilers)
In response to complaints about the (stupid) writing of the show, a reply says come on, it’s based on a comic book; it’s not winning any writing awards. This is replied to with why not? The early issues of the comic were intelligently written. Someone else agrees. Someone points out that Michonne’s pets were stupid, and were just fan service for fans of the comics. Not one single complaint or even mention that comics are off-topic for the thread.

The Walking Dead; 4.06 “Live Bait” (open spoilers)
No mention of the comics. (Unusually short episode thread. Only 57 posts.)

The Walking Dead; 4.07 “Dead Weight” (open spoilers)
No mention of the comics.

The Walking Dead; 4.08 “Too Far Gone” (open spoilers)
The Governor is referred to as a “literal comic-book villain.” (heh) Someone else posts an unspoilered description of how all the show events we just saw happened in the comics, which had some similarities and some differences. This is replied to with a polite, single sentence post: “It’s considered bad form to post unspoiled stuff from the comic books here.” At this point, someone else jumps in to say that comics should be left out of the discussion entirely, as was hashed out in season 1 threads. (No cite.) This sparks a discussion about comic spoiler in threads. Ellen Cherry then issues a mod ruling out of the blue that comic book discussion is not allowed in episode threads. This feels highly inappropriate and out of place, contrary to how the threads have been going all season. After the mod announcement, someone points out that Daryl doesn’t exist in the comics. Someone comments that the (low) quality of the writing may be because the show is written by the comic book writer. Someone takes offense. Someone else comments that they’re losing interest in the show even though they quite like the comics. That same moderator is continuing to participate in the thread, never mentioning all these rules violation, and never (still to this day) boxing the unboxed spoilers that caused the drama in the first place.

Oops, I kept going past the mid-season break without realizing it. I thought it went to 4.10, but it only goes to 4.08. Well, since I already did the recap, here it is:

The Walking Dead; 4.09 “After” (open spoilers)
It’s pointed out that Michonne’s pets are a stupid comic buy idea only intended to look cool, not make sense. Someone else points out that the characters can’t change clothes because the show is based on comic books. Meaning they have costumes they have to wear. Someone else reiterates that Michonne’s pets are bad comic book writing, and points out that the show has changed other comic book stuff. Someone explains what Michonne’s pets did in the comics that was so bad that she’d turn them into pets. Not one single complaint or even mention that comics are off-topic for the thread.
My comment on the dust-up from episode 4.08 is that it could have been much more easily resolved with a simple spoiler box from the mod instead of the mod making a pronouncement that all of a sudden, contrary to most TWD threads, the comics no longer exist in threads. This is highlighted by the fact that after the pronouncement, people kept talking about the comics, and that same moderator kept posting so there’s no way she missed it.

I think it’s also worth pointing out that the poster who escalated the “please use a spoiler box” into “comics shouldn’t exist in these threads” is the OP of this poll thread.

I’m all for comics discussion as long as it doesn’t jump ahead of the TV show.

Additionally, a “comics don’t exist” rule simply cannot work for TWD threads because of the existence of Talking Dead. The comics are discussed on that show all the time. Unless we’re also going to enact a “Talking Dead doesn’t exist” rule, which I think would be silly.

How about we continue to do as we have been, allowing discussion of the comics and spoiler-boxing plot elements from the comics that differ from the show or that haven’t happened yet? If someone randomly posts unboxed spoilers, like happened in the 4.08 thread, the simplest solution is to report the post asking a mod to box it. Much like how the rest of Cafe Society operates.

Except that they scrupulously avoid giving away any future developments on Talking Dead. They may discuss general things, like Rick’s hand, or characters that aren’t in the comics, but they never come close to talking about future developments based on the comics.

It would be nice if we could act like The Talking Dead, but people have given away stuff previously. I’m not sure why it’s necessary to bring up the comics here. Kudos to those who managed to read the comics, but let’s keep the TV show discussion to the TV show.

So if we can’t talk about comics, and they talk about comics on Talking Dead, are you suggesting that Talking Dead should also be off limits?

Also, I dispute your assertion that comics readers give away stuff. I have yet to run across it in my analysis above, while at the same time I’ve documented a ton of in-thread discussion that involves the comics.

As I wrote, I am very spoiler phobic so I appreciate when people want to avoid them. That said, I think comparisons to Game of Thrones are a false equivalency mainly because GoT adheres very closely to the book plots while WD just uses the broadest of strokes from the comics.

I do agree that potential futures from the comics should be left out of the TV thread (e.g. revealing everything your learned from the comics about Eugene and Abraham the first time they appear on the show). But I see no issue at all with filling in back story from the comics or comparing how they each did similar plot lines (e.g. discussing how Shane was handled differently in the comics vs. the TV show).

As mentioned above I am pretty sure this is how all these threads have worked anyway.

I don’t under the bug some people have up there butt about discussing things that have already happened. It’s not spoilers if it’s not “spoiling” anything because you already saw it happen.

:rolleyes:

Exactly. I wasn’t bothered at all by the comic discussion in this week’s thread, especially considering it was mentioned in The Talking Dead, which I don’t watch. I also wouldn’t be opposed to any TD and comic comments being in spoiler boxes, either.

I agree. If the writers of the show are referencing the comics to fill in the blanks it’s fair game. Don’t spoil the future. I prefer the “don’t be a jerk” rule and just common sense and courtesy. It works pretty well most of the time, and mistakes happen, but if someone feels the need to never ever have something spoiled then the internet, and the world in general is a dangerous place. The first person to see an open spoiler should hit the “report” button.

Another vote for wedgehed. Bringing in the comics to flesh out something that already happened in the show or to compare/contrast with what already happened is fine and adds to the discussion. It doesn’t spoil anything. Any forward-looking discussion should be off-limits.

Unfortunately, the pool doesn’t really capture this option so I didn’t vote.

That’s why I put a “write-in” option there - if the majority votes for your write-in, then that’s the way we should go.

Yeah, I noticed that option after I posted and voted accordingly. :smack:

That’s just nonsensical.

The comic books exist (TWD). The books exist (GoT/SOIAF). The book and hit Broadway musical exist (Les Mis). It simply doesn’t make sense to talk about the television shows while at the same time denying the existence of the source material. And it’s also completely unnecessary. There’s a very simple rule that will cover all of this: DON’T POST SPOILERS!

It’s not a spoiler to say “that scene was different in the comic”, or “that character died/didn’t die/did something differently in the comic”. It may be a spoiler to say “based on the comic, this character will probably die next week”. I say ‘may be’ because we have seen that the TV show does not necessarily follow the comic in all cases, so we can’t predict with certainty what will happen next, just because it happened that way in the comic. That said, I think the vast majority of us would agree that posting about “future events” based on knowledge of the comic is something that shouldn’t be done. It may or may not actually be a ‘spoiler’, but it’s certainly far more than mere ‘speculation’.

It’s simple: don’t post information about events that haven’t occurred yet on the TV show, based on your knowledge of the events in the comic.

I was wrong-- I see that we didn’t have a “comic doesn’t exist rule” but we did have an understanding of not posting spoilers or doing so very clearly labeled in spoiler boxes.
I think referring to the comic some is okay–spoilers boxed–my biggest issue is when people post “I’m so clever” spoilers like the example I outlined in other thread.
"An example of the kind of stuff that seemed to happen: New Character X gets introduced in the comic. In the comic, said character goes into a beauty salon to look for shampoo and gets his head chopped off by an axe-wielding maniac. Character X is introduced on the show. Someone in the discussion thread says, “Yeah this character is in the comic, but I don’t know how long he’ll be around.” Someone else says “Well, he’ll be around for awhile unless he goes into a salon. " Three episodes later, Character X says “I need shampoo. I’m going to check out that salon.””

You and I agree on that. :slight_smile:

Cite for this ever happening?

I think it would be a bad idea to radically change the rules for how we have been posting in the threads for years on the off chance that something that’s never happened yet might happen in the future.

Agreed, of course. It makes complete sense to continue using the same posting guidelines that have served us well for years.

Bear in mind that this current debate arose because of the following comic book “spoilers” in the current thread:

Did Eugene exist in the comics? If so, was his lie more believable than on the show?
Yes he’s in the comics, and yes his lie was more believable.