12/15/15 The final Republican Debate.

Eh, what? Romney was lying or idiotic, Obama was correct.

Obama September 12 (1 day after the attacks) Rose Garden speech transcript:

This actually happened. Obama called it “acts of terror”. The later parsing I remember from the likes of right wingers, saying that acts of terror doesn’t mean he called it terrorism was about as idiotic as watching pre-schoolers fight. They were factually wrong, Obama was right, full stop, end of story.

The wiki references this article as when “The White House, for the first time Thursday [September 20, 9 days after the attacks], declared the attack that killed Stevens and three other people a terrorist attack.”

I did some digging and the ultimate issue here and the source of the confusion was that the days immediately after the attacks were filled with speculation as investigators sorted through what happened. When Obama made his remarks the day after the attack, calling it an act of terror, there wasn’t a definitive conclusion as to what happened. Administration officials were also not speaking of one mindwhen they spoke to the media, which in turn lead to several different people speculating or refusing to speculate on what happened. There were beliefs that the Mohammed video on Youtube caused spontaneous reactions that lead to the attacks.

What the administration did wasn’t wrong or deceptive at all. Jay Carney on September 13 spoke of the protests, which was a REAL THING that happened in many parts of the world. There was no indication or ability of terrorists to create such a mass outpouring of anger to cover up one attack. They probably took advantage of it or by coincidence planned it on the same day.

The State Department spokeswoman quoted next talked about 2 different things: being careful to draw quick conclusions on the attacks, and acknowledging the anger from the videos. Not Obama’s fault Fox decided to link those together. There can certainly be anger to the video AND separate terrorist attacks.

Then Susan Rice basically echoed the previous sentiment to not jump to conclusions. Nobody was hiding anything, we just didn’t know for sure at that time.

Then Carney on Sep. 20 again repeated what Obama first said in the Rose Garden speech, but what right wingers seem to draw from that is that a planned terrorist attack must be different from the angry reaction to the Mohammed video. Whether or not there is a link is irrelevant, people can be mad about 2 things at once.

And finally Obama did link the video to terrorist motivation but seem to stop short of tying it directly to Benghazi. Which is sensible since we didn’t know for sure. There were protests, obviously some terrorist acts arose from that, separating those attacks from Benghazi until a link can be established is proper. Right wingers felt Obama should have blamed the attacks on terrorism immediately without knowing anything, and denied any anger stemming from the video because in their world, one should be able to criticize Islam without repercussions.

Taken all together, administration officials had to respond but went with what was known at the time. They passed that information along to the media and some of it conflicted, which is normal when the full story was not known. Right wingers saw a conspiracy instead of the simple process of investigation, and in their echo chamber the story evolved from “Obama administration is investigating conflicting reports” to “Obama never called it terror and covered it up”. That’s why Romney was so intent on getting Obama “on the record” during the debates, as if he found a smoking gun. His zeal in focusing on the specific words “act of terror” was wrong, he got caught, Crowley corrected him, and he and the GOP looked like fools.

Candy Crowley, who did the fact-checking, said after the debate that Romney’s point was correct, it did take about 2 weeks for the administration to admit the attack had nothing to do with a video tape. Watch that moment in the debate, I think you can see she immediately regrets piping up. She later claimed she was just trying to move things along by saying both guys were right. Folks on both sides agreed it was bad moderating.

Got a cite that she said that Romney was correct? Because he wasn’t.

NM

Romney was right only in that Obama didn’t phrase it precisely as Romney thought it should have been. To me, the difference between “acts of terror” and “terrorism” is essentially meaningless, but to Romney it apparently has great importance.

Strictly speaking, that’s not referring to the event as “an act of terror”; it’s just saying that acts of terror won’t shake that resolve, or alter that character, or eclipse that light. If I ask whether a particular woman is from Ohio, and you reply that no women from Ohio will ever marry you – well, have you technically answered my question?

Is there a reason you put this candidate’s name in all caps?

Ok but what about Trumps Nuclear triad gaffe? How could anyone that lived through the cold war believe that Trump doesn’t know what the nuclear triad is? Thats a level of ignorance that should truly scare anyone that thinks Trump might be the next commander in chief. This is not a gotcha question, its general knowledge I learnt when I was 17 in high school.

Rubio missed his cue on that one. I believe his follow-up answer started with “For those at home who are not familiar with it let me explain it for you.”
He should have added “And I’ll also explain it for Donald since it’s obvious he has no clue.”

I don’t think it will be a problem for him. So he didn’t answer the question – who’s to say whether he didn’t know the answer, or just chose to answer a specific question with a prepared statement hardly related to the question at all, except for the word “nuclear”. It’s a really common thing for politicians to do. Damn reporters with their “gotcha” questions!

Not to take this hijack further, but… That entire speech was about the events in Benghazi, so it’s a far stretch to say that it wasn’t clear the president was calling those events an act of terror. This was not some multi-faceted speech that touched on multiple issues and might therefore lead to confusion.

However, Romney should have said that it took 2 weeks for the administration to stop throwing out other possibilities as well. Obama said that very same day that it was too early to tell, and Rice made the rounds of the Sunday talk shows equivocating about the cause.

Romney could have been right if he hadn’t insisted on trying to pin a specific phrase to Obama on a specific day. But he did, and so he loses.

Cause Jeb! already took the exclamation point, and Jeb? also has some claim on the question mark, too.

I would much rather have a beer with Rubio than Christie. Rubio would be a much more pleasant conversationalist.

Is it my imagination, or did the stage sag under the weight when Christie walked across?

Carson’s not a robot, he’s a sleepwalker.

When I think Christie, I think, “I better not get in between him and his beer, or any of his other favorite foods.”

No sorry if you don’t know what the nuclear triad is for fucks sake you should not be a candidate for commander in chief. This is very very general knowledge.

Maybe. Sorta kinda.

What part did the RNC play in determining who got tickets? The Corporate Republicans look like they are bailing out on Jeb( ) and dashing to Rubio in a panic, so they had a good reason to boost his impact. Maybe that’s just my conspiracy bump acting up again, but I bet if you compared the intensity of audience reaction to poll standing, only Rubio’s would be puzzling.

If that many Republicans like Rubio that much, how come he’s trailing so badly?

Just saw a clip With Fiorina being interviewed after the debate. (Paraphrased) She said the GOP shouldn’t have a candidate who insults women. Isn’t that POLITICAL CORRECTNESS?

The New Yorker’s take on the debate was that all the candidates, except Lindsey Graham, renounced American principles in their zeal for the rhetoric of war and fear.
It gave “the prize for ahistorical gobbledygook” to Marco Rubio:

[QUOTE=Marco Rubio]

In 2013, we had never faced a crisis like the Syrian refugee crisis now. Up until that point, a refugee meant someone fleeing oppression, fleeing Communism like it is in my community.
[/QUOTE]
“Are Syrians not fleeing oppression?”

This is sort of Hugh Hewitt’s schtick. Ask some hyper-specific foreign policy question that no one in the audience cares at all about (Quds forces, the nuclear triad, etc), and watch Trump ‘misunderstand’ the question or answer in vague terms. This way Hewitt demonstrates that he’s smarter than Trump. It’s silly, but it must be nice for Hewitt to feel smarter than someone else.

That said, while I agree that having an actual opinion on which leg of the triad needs more prioritization is a silly thing to debate at this level, the fact that Trump clearly didn’t even know what the Triad was should reflect badly on him. And the fact that Rubio did should reflect well on him. But in reality, Rubio probably comes off as the kid in the front row who always brings an apple to the teacher and has his hand up as high as he can, screeching “I know, I know, I know!” Republican primary voters really hate that kid.