So all drug dealers and/or statutory rapists should be shot? :dubious:
So would I but he’s been in jail for eight years now so unless he’s made some sort of connections to watch what she does and follow through on that threat, she’s not exactly under his thumb and forced to live by his rules, and threats no matter how harsh or backed up aren’t always enough to break people out of a bad cycle.
Just found it interesting is all.
What if James Hayward’s father had killed Jadah Walker in defense of his son’s life? They were both using drugs and both having sex and both living together. Why assume one of them was guilty and the other was innocent?
Fuck no. If daddies killed all the shitheel boyfriends their daughters shacked up with, there’d be a lot more bodies around and murderers in prison. Regardless of what you think about their maturity level, the reality is that people at that age do make their own decisions and follow through with them. You might try to control them, you might think they’re doing stupid shit and advise accordingly, but you’re not going to be able to stop them from doing something they really want to do any more than you’d be able to stop any other person you know.
This fucking idiot killed a person because his daughter was a stupid cunt. He totally deserves his sentence.
I don’t think this is a justifiable homicide any more than I would think it justified if he killed the guy because he was black/Jewish/insert ethnicity here. Or if he was too poor, or too rich. Or if he was a law-abiding citizen instead of a drug dealer. It makes no difference. The boyfriend didn’t deserve to die because of his girlfriend’s attachment to him.
This is the same basic situation my sister put my father in. She was always a rebellious little bitch, really, as far back as age 11 or 12, when she first started getting in trouble for doing impulsive things without thinking them through. Getting arrested for shoplifting pencils and stickers, for example, or another time when she was about 13 and got picked up at 3:00 in the morning miles away from home for vandalizing someone’s house with a crony.
Around the time she was 15, I was 17, and my youngest sister was 13 or so, my mother was dying of cancer, so the family was understandably in turmoil. My father wasn’t all that great at dealing with crises, and here he was suddenly having to figure out what to do with a dying wife, a family business that he’d never been involved in running, a mortgage, insurance claims, etc. Even at the best of times my sister wasn’t really controllable.
She started hanging around an older crowd, either because she wanted drugs or because she was doing them and got into the social circle. Because none of us wanted to deal with what was going on at home, we all ended up trying to stay away sometimes. She just took it a step further and ended up not coming home for days at a time.
My dad got the cops to pick her up a couple of times, but it didn’t really make much difference. She did what she wanted to do. You could lock her in her room at night (and my parents had actually resorted to that at one point) and she’d just try to break out. So she was shacked up with a 23 or 24 year old drug dealer when she was 15.
My dad threatened the guy with statutory rape charges, which would have stuck in California. My sister said it wouldn’t make a difference, she’d just wait for him to get out of prison. And besides — check it out, dad! — she was pregnant, so all he’d end up doing is putting her baby-daddy away when she needed him most.
Dad ended up pushing them to get married (probably with the implied threat of jail or violence for the guy, I don’t know all the details even now) and since he couldn’t do a whole hell of a lot to protect her other than make sure she had a secure place to live, he helped them get a decent apartment with the promise that they both stop doing and dealing drugs. Any hint they weren’t mostly clean, and he’d call the cops on them both.
Surprisingly, getting knocked up settled my sister out a lot. She actually lost the first baby, but got pregnant again with the same guy soon afterward and did a pretty good job of straightening up and getting her life less chaotic to take care of her baby boy. Ended up splitting from her husband after a few years, but they had a mostly amicable divorce. She owns a couple of houses, has her own business, and has a 2 year old daughter with her second husband now. She’s arguably more successful than I am, and I’m the first college graduate in my family.
If my dad had blown the guy away, I doubt any outcome would have been as positive as what actually happened in my family. It would have turned a bad situation into a much worse one.
Not likely to happen here in Canada. Recently, the landlord of my shop had a nursury grow op going in the back and he was reported. The cops came with garbage bags to haul out the plants and apparently decided not to lay a charge, Not enough plants apparently.
My own experience suggests that a fifteen-year-old can be perfectly equipped to make decisions like that. (Seeing as I was sexually active for twenty-six years before choosing to reproduce, and have never had an STI.)
I am well aware that the brain continues to develop well into adulthood, but it would be an abuse of science to suggest that people are actually physically unable to reason or act in their own interest until they’re well into their twenties - that’s patently absurd and contrary to experience.
That’s not to say I never made mistakes - but we’re self-correcting systems, ideally.
Like any father, I’m not in any hurry for my daughter to run out and make her own mistakes - but I hope to help her to be able to think critically about situations in general before she get’s thrown for a loop by puberty. You know they used to teach formal logic to twelve-year-olds as a matter of course, right? Bit of a balls-up that it’s not even part of the high-school curriculum, in my opinion. Knowing how to reason clearly about things is a darned handy and almost universally undervalued tool.
But in all the movies…all the books…Daddy always wins. This concept…is delishisly evul.
The movie Joe (Susan Sarandon’s first movie) was based on this concept. It starts with Daddy killing druggy boyfriend. Then he gets guns and goes to massacre more hippies. He ends by killing his daughter.
Then after the filming wrapped but before it was released, some guy in Detroit went and did exactly the same thing as in the movie.
The murders in the movie brought cheers from audiences, which left Peter Boyle so shaken he resolved never to make another violent movie. And the real-life mass murderer with the parallel case got a flood of letters congratulating him for massacring hippies, but no condemnations from the public. Bet that makes Clothahump happy.
What a great movie - I haven’t thought it about it in uyears. (Last saw it c. 1992.) I’ll have to dig it up for my wife.
Hilarious. I was going to say that the OP should have waited to post this thread until Dio is off his suspension…this is a Dio thread all the way. That guy would be Dio’s hero.
Just to play devil’s advocate for a moment here…
Let’s say you go to the police and tell them that this guy is a manipulative drug dealer.
The police then turn around and say “Prove it. We can’t do a thing to him until and unless we catch him in the act. Your word as a Concerned Citizen is utterly meaningless to due process of law.”
Alternately, let’s say they say “We know. Unfortunately every time we go over to his house with a search warrant, he flushes the drugs down the toilet before we can get through the door.” Or “We’ve arrested and charged him a bunch of times but the local prosecutor doesn’t think it’s worth pursuing.”
Police are not crusaders. They have strict rules that they have to follow. My understand is that the father in the case had been to the police and that they were unable/unwilling to help him. They will not get involved in a domestic case unless there is active violence going on. Shacking up with a scumbag isn’t a crime in and of itself. Sure they can arrest him for drug dealing if they catch him but while they’re doing so they can’t break up his relationship with his girlfriend. Now you would suppose that if he goes off to the clink for a while (which he won’t- in Canada it’s in our Criminal Code sentencing guidelines that a first offense gets you the minimum punishment) the girl would come to her senses and go home to daddy. However, we know for a fact that people don’t always do what is in their best interests.
(Aside: Perhaps it’s different in the US. Maybe down there, if you accuse your neighbor of dealing drugs, DEA stormtroopers will kick down his door, throw him in a harsh jail, tear his life apart and interrogate his girlfriend for hours so harshly that she’ll never want to see the dirtbag again, assuming he ever gets out of jail for whatever they find. Canada is not like this. There is a much more permissive attitude towards drugs up here and our police are much more constrained in what they can do. An individual has to work hard to get thrown in jail and even if they do they will most likely be let out early.)
Dad did not do the right thing in this case but that’s somewhat immaterial because there is no right thing to begin with. He did what he felt was right and he was prepared to face the consequences for that. Does that make him better or worse than a parent who stands by and lets things play out on their own, possibly losing the daughter to drugs or violence in the process? In other words, if this thread was “Daughter dies of drug overdose because daddy didn’t care” would we be any less outraged?
Everyone, we don’t want to turn this into a thread about Dio, since he can’t respond right now.
No warnings issued.
Carry on.
Here’s the thing: a 16 year old girl who is screwed up enough to get hooked up with this situation isn’t going to magically get healthy and sane once this guy is gone. She’s just going to go out and find another skeevy older guy to take drugs and have sex with while you’re rotting in prison.
Better to try to get the daughter into therapy and/or rehab and fix the problem than to mess about battling symptoms.
never mind, I just read back a couple of posts.
According to the article, the daughter “cleaned up”.
BTW, when did Diogenes the Cynic get suspended?
Works for me. However, that is my personal opinion only.
So I was watching the W5 episode on this case and there’s a couple of points brought up in it that weren’t in the OP.
A lot of people earlier in the thread were saying to bring the police into it. The thing is, the Walker’s did. Hayward was known as the biggest druggie in the city and the RCMP knew him very well, but they didn’t try to get a warrant to search his house.
Also, Jada’s friend wrote a letter to her parents saying Jada was into hard drugs and lost 40 pounds and she was afraid Jada was going to die.
Hayward also made a death threat and the Walker’s were told that since it was only one threat, the police wouldn’t do anything.
So, I want to ask the same question as the OP, but you don’t have the option of police involvement since they won’t listen to you, and time is of the essence - she’s not just doing pot and snorting coke, she’s going for the whole shebang and would die soon.
Why is it the fault of the guy in this situation (after all, the girl willingly picked him)? If you sacrifice your future who is to say your daughter wouldn’t just shack up with some other 24 year old ex-felon?
Killing the guy wouldn’t make your daughter make better decisions. Besides, what if it was a 16 year old son and a 24 year old woman, or a 16 and 24 year old gay couple?
He wasn’t defending his daughter’s life. Her life was not at any imminent risk, and certainly none that she had not put herself into (bad grammar, but, it’s early, for me). She chose this lifestyle. That is what her boyfriend was murdered for. Now, I’m all for somebody who kills somebody who needs killin’, but, this wasn’t the case, IMHO. His daughter was a woman at that time. He killed the guy because he couldn’t control his own daughter.