"24" Season 2, Episode 12 - 7:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m. (SPOILERS)

Cafe Society
41

When the soldier kicked the chair and shot… well, who knows what really happened? Maybe it was a ploy and the kid wasn’t really dead. But then again, they only seem to show messy images, not actions (i.e. show burning man, but cover up Secret Service guy torturing Stanton). I’m sure FOX would balk at showing a kid get shot on TV, booting the chair would be a good way to not show the nastyness. I’ve pretty much accepted the fact that I can never be sure of what I saw, and that’s what makes the show so great.

I got season one on VHS, and twenty hours through it, I now truly understand all the contempt for Kim. I figured it was more or less backlash against the token bimbo, but yeah, Kim’s a bloody moron.

I think it’s beleivable. See Jones, Indiana; Skywalker, Anakin; Bob, Sideshow.

Yes!

42

The hell?!? What’s with all the people saying that Fox “copped out” or Bauer “copped out” by not killing a little boy? Even for a TV show, I hope you people don’t really think that way.

Do I really need to explain why it’s bad to kill innocent children? Even in fiction? And that it’s more than a little creepy to think that people would want to see that? Even in fiction? I try to stay off the high horse whenever possible, but come on! This same episode showed a guy set on fire and another man tortured with a defibrillator and a bucket of water, not to mention a guy getting slammed to the ground and having a cyanide tooth knocked out of his mouth. Last week had a woman get her ear sliced after watching another guy get tortured and sliced up and left all flayed and bleeding in a bathtub, plus of course more torture and shootings. But still you complain that the show’s all “PC” and FOX balked at getting “too intense.” Is this ancient Rome or something?

Yeah it was clear that the little boy wasn’t really killed. The cool thing about the show is that even though it was clear to most that it wasn’t really going to happen, it was still a pretty intense scene, and it was still a pretty vicious and fucked-up thing to do. But, of course, it was effective, which was the whole point. The thing that seemed implausible to me is that at the beginning of the day (I’m assuming; I haven’t seen every episode this season) they didn’t know who Sayed Ali was, even to the point of having to keep a civilian around to identify him, and yet they were still able within a few hours to round up his entire family and get a fairly professional video crew in there to record a faked execution.

43

Exactly right. I was expecting that it was special effects when the boy was killed. And I was happy to be right. I guess it’s better that one innocent child die than a whole city of innocents die, but still—special effects and no dead child are MUCH better. MUCH BETTER.

44

It took something like five episodes before we saw Ira Gaines last season, but that was only for little bits at a time. Jack didn’t get involved until episode seven or eight, and Gaines was dead by number thirteen.

But last season was different. I heard that they were only garanteed to air the first half of the show, so they basically had two different climaxes. Palmer was saved from the first assasination attempt around nine, and Jack had his family back at one.

That also caused several problems as well. The episodes from two pm till about seven seemed like nobody was doing anything for hours at a time.

45

I think Mike is in on the plot, and tipped off Sherry when Lynn went out to meet her informant. But really, can’t the Prez pick more loyal people for his staff? These are the people that helped get him elected…why are they all turning on him now?

I’m glad Jack didn’t kill Ali’s son. My question is, how can he ever tell him his son is still alive? Won’t he lose a bargaining chip with Ali, if Ali knows he won’t really kill his family?

We learned a little bit more about Marie…she was distraught after her mother’s death and fell in with the “wrong” people.

46

He won’t tell him till after it’s all over. That’s one thing I loved about the episode…he didn’t tell Ali it was faked. He wouldn’t hurt the guy’s family, but he has no compunction about some psychological torment for the murderous bastard.

47

Well, they’ve said since the beginning that Sayed Ali was a known terrorist - they’ve got all kinds of information on him. In fact, didn’t they even have pictures of him from London or something like that earlier this season? The only reason they needed an eye witness to ID him at the mosque is that no one had personally seen him, so there was no other way to make sure that they definitely got the right guy and were able to stop him from killing himself before they got to him. So I just figured that they probably had his family’s location already and, due to the dire nature of the situation, finally used it.

Also, the reason why I wasn’t sure whether or not they killed the boy is the same one brought up by Troy McClure SF … I mean, killing a young child is pretty hardcore. I figured the reason that they kicked over the chair is that they just couldn’t show something like that on network television. I was still a bit unsure, but, like I said, at the time, the reactions of the other family members seemed pretty real to me.

48

Yeah Jack won’t spill the beans until after it’s over. And he won’t necessarily need another bargaining chip with Ali. He’ll be in prison for the rest of his life.

49

Seeing as next week is the thirteenth episode, I expect we can see many of the storylines wrapped up. Bomb will be stopped (or detonated…that’d be cool as hell), Mason might die, Kim will be buggered to the tune of Dueling Banjos (actually that last one might add some ratings during sweeps.)

Of course they didn’t kill the kid and Jack never meant to since he told the guys “go ahead as planned.” What I didn’t like was the voice over by Kate when she was watching the masked men releasing the family. “It was all a setup!”

a) Duh, we can see that Kate. You don’t have to tell us, we can figure that out.
b) What was all a setup, Kate? You didn’t see any of it! All you saw was tv equpment rolling out and footage of some people releasing a family. No one told you what they were doing.

I agree with Mason. The bomb was more important than Kim and all resources SHOULD go toward finding that bomb. If I were a resident of L.A., I’d be pissed to know that my city was destroyed because the guy with the red-wire cutters was out in the forest looking for the boss’s daughter.

Sherry at the “secret meeting.” Is it just me or did she look more like she was dressed to sell some ‘Rollex’ watches rather than confront the Prez’s asst.?

The reaction of the family to the supposed killing of the boy was to be expected. He was kicked backwards where they couldn’t see him. When they heard the gun shot they naturally went into hysterics. Even if they did see him moving afterwards, they were gagged and couldn’t say anything. But, even though they split-screened so the image of the ‘dead’ kid stayed still, I’m wondering how they stopped his muffled yelling from coming through on the transmission.

50

**
Ali was screaming “You keeled my wife! You keeled my cheeldren! You keeled my family. I will get you Jack!” while they were dragging him away. That 's when blondie-sis gave Jack the “you bastard” eyes. My question is why did Jack bother to show her the feed so that she could see the kid wasn’t dead? Too keep her sweet probably?

**
The only reason why Jack is doing this (well, one of the reasons, his consciense wouldn’t let him drive away with a nuke waiting to blow up LA) was the promise that Tony and Mason made to him to make sure Kim stayed safe this time. Mason’s word isn’t worth the toilet paper he wiped his ass with, but Tony seems a much more honorable man.

51

I am never one to correct my spelling mistakes but “consciense” is just killing me.

conscience conscience conscience

There. I feel much better.

52

Ok, I didn’t hear Sayed screaming all that, or at least I didn’t understand. Still, seems like an odd way for Kate to express it.

As far as seeking for Kim, I say thee “Bah!” If the bomb goes off, Jack is dead anyway, and Kim is still outside the blast radius. Mason is doing the right thing and I think in the long run, after all that Jack has been going through, Jack would understand.

Or cut off his head with a hacksaw.

53

Oh, I don’t think a dedicated terrorist would flinch when one of his is killed, much less spill the beans like a wuss. Wouldn’t it be something if the terrorist would say “My family are martyrs for the cause”. Then what else would Jack have to do?

54

I think some of you are missing the big picture here. So far 24 has been a perfect barometer of the level of societal acceptance.

For years, action movies all had exactly the same plot. Solo hero would go after organization of Really Evil Men. The henchmen would be knocked off one by one, in order of their evility. Finally the hero would confront the head Really Evil Man. But even when the hero had a chance to kill him, he would refrain, and the writers would have to come up with some contorted way for the head REM to be killed by accident or his own mischance. Our heroes don’t kill defenseless people.

Last year, Jack went past that by killing Dennis Hopper in exactly that situation. Everybody cheered.

But when confronted with the chance to kill Nina, he backed down. Why? Our society still doesn’t want our heroes to kill women. Men, OK. Women, not.

One other action that used to be taboo: torture. The REM could torture our good guys for information because, well, because they were Evil. We as Americans could not be shown doing that. We didn’t like to think of ourselves that way.

Evidently 9/11 changed that. I think 24 is correct in believing that Americans will now tolerate torture to get information to prevent an immediate crime. It says everything about our society that a prime-time television show is showing torture actively sanctioned by the innermost circles of the government, not just by rogue field agents, and no one is complaining.

What are people complaining about? The fictional possibility of killing innocents, especially children. That is still the ultimate taboo in our society.

One more thing that nobody is mentioning. Women. Women are at the core of the various plots in 24. The question is, what actions will be taken against them? I will state here and now that we will not see a woman subjected to torture at any time in the rest of this season. I think some of the women involved will die, but will do so in the manner of the head REM in the old action movies, by accident or their own missteps. There is a slight possibility that Jack will take out Nina, but only a very small one. Our society is just not yet ready to do to women what it will willingly allow to be done to men. That taboo has not yet been broken. (Except for rape. Interesting fine distinction there.)

The producers of 24 so far have been brilliant in giving the public just what it wants in a country newly awakened to terrorism. How far it goes will say a lot about a country on the verge of war.

55

Jack rules, he sticks his hand in Ali’s mouth to get the cyanide and gets his hand bitten in the progress. Didn’t even notice.

I didn’t think Jack would actually have the kid killed, but the whole scene and setup and the president’s phone call made me believe it. My exact words were “Jack’s finally lost it”. Although I expected Ali to say, “Ah good, I can see my wife and sons in paradise then”. Anyway, it was good to see that he didn’t do it. Jack isn’t the type to kill innocents. Remember when he killed the witness guy, he first found out that the guy murdered someone else and (I think) molested some kids, so he had no doubt about him being “innocent”.

Here’s my guess as to the resolution of the bomb plot: the terrorists are going to arm the bomb when they find out that all flights have been grounded, but it’ll be set to go off in X amount of time (X being the number of minutes left until the end of the episode). When CTU gets there and finds the bomb (and kills the terrorists, minus Marie), Mason will take the plane with the bomb and fly it out into the middle of the ocean where it won’t hurt anyone.

I don’t think Mike has anything to do with the plot against the president. If he didn’t want Palmer in office he wouldn’t have helped make it happen last season.

I think “they” as reported by Sherry are the people that were financing Palmer’s campaign and had the doctor killed last season. The guy that worked for “them” (I think his name was Mike also) will probably make a return. They want to replace Palmer with a puppet president (Stanton) that they can control. I can’t decide if Sherry is on their side or being coerced into helping.

Oh, and I’m glad the guy that “saved” Kim didn’t have a beard. Although I was right about the trap, the guy spent about 3 seconds looking at it and pulled the wire out to loosen it. Kim is an idiot that she couldn’t figure it out herself.

56

Well, they did slice blondie-sis’ ear and smack her around a bit.

57

For the first time I noticed some gray in President Palmer’s sideburns. I wonder if this is going to be one of those cases of “hair turning white overnight.” He’ll look good gray.

Could the guy who un-trapped (and probably trapped) Kim be involved with the bomb plot? The teaser for next week shows him telling her “the bomb went off. . . .”

58

I assume she probably told him something about it.

59

Gah!

Let me reiterate folks, those of us who don’t want any spoilers for next week ask that discussions of what happens in next week’s trailer stay in spoiler boxes. No one can make you do it, but please do it for us uber-24 nerds. If you continue to do so, we will be forced to gather outside your house at night and repeatedly yell “Who are you working for?!” as a means of torture, preventing you from sleeping.

Spoilers boxes are created like so:

[spolier ] Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker’s father. [/spoiler]

But of course, no spaces in the actual tag.

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NOOOOOOOO!!!
Sorry if I violated a thread rule. I know ignorance is no defense. . . but I thought any televised part of the show was fair game for comment. And the teaser for the upcoming episode is a televised part of the show.