Women always say that, but you don’t talk to a girl you’re interested in the same way you talk to every other person. I don’t think there’s any harm in reading books that will help you understand body language and dating ettiquate. There’s books to help you interview for a job. Why not books on talking to women you are interested in romantically?
The problem is that women think that it all happens naturally. Some guy just “being himself” will just swoop in and they will just fall in love. Well, some guys need help letting “themselves” show through bit more.
The problem is that the reality is more nuanced than “Just wear a condom and everything will be ok”. Herpes, HPV, and pubic lice can be transmitted even with condom use. A girl who has an average sex life may or may not have run into those diseases, but it seems pretty much inevitable that someone who has made a career out of banging dozens or hundreds of people will have encountered them.
With the other diseases, condoms reduce the risk but don’t eliminate it. You might also be dealing with someone who is a prostitute because they need easy cash for a drug habit, which would make the prostitute a higher risk for HIV or Hepatitis C than the average girl.
Given the legal instruction of our moderator, I can only advise that if the OP decide to pay for sex, he do so in Europe. I am under the impression that sex workers in places like Amsterdam are highly regulated, regularly tested, and quite safe to sleep with. If anyone who has had actual experience there has any evidence to the contrary, now is the time to say so.
Moderating aside - the rule’s nothing to me personally - the OP has said he’s not interested in this and not going to Amsterdam for it, so I’m not sure why the suggestion keeps popping up.
From everything the OP is said, his problem is moving into the physical stage of an encounter with the opposite sex. And you can’t really initiate a “real relationship” without moving into this stage either. Whether you are after a long term relationship or just casual sex, on a date, there is a distinct moment at which you move into the physical stage, and this guy is either unable to recognize that moment, or can recognize it but is afraid to continue.
No amount of talking about this will help him overcome the problem. In fact, the more he talks about it - the more he THINKS about it - the worse it is going to get.
What he needs to do is get out there and FORCE himself to make moves on women. He needs to go to a bar, or parties, or any other place where people go to meet other people of the opposite sex (yes, that’s right, some women do go to bars with the intention of meeting a guy - they’re not just there to soak up the atmosphere) and talk to women, buy them drinks, and then offer to take them to his house. He should just do it over and over again. HE WILL GET REJECTED. It’s inevitable! But eventually he WILL succeed. He WILL succeed. He WILL SUCCEED. Do you hear me, dude? You must be prepared to handle rejection, because it will happen. It’s just a part of the process. You can’t grow without burning, as Arnold Schwarzenegger says in “Stay Hungry.”
And again, please don’t shy away from using alcohol or anything else that will loosen you up a little and make it easier for you to get physical with a woman.
And of course, know when to stop, if she wants you to stop. But that’s just common sense, right?
I know, the “bar scene” or whatever seems petty, and it is, but that’s the only way I can forsee this guy getting over his hangups about going to the next level with a woman, and he can’t have the real, meaningful relationship that he wants until he gets over that.
I was going to say “tied”, but you edited it… bummer…
Other than some areas on how to get around to solving the problem, I tend to agree with Argent Towers in this one.
I’m still curious as to what your social reaction was (see my previous questions)… Really, because the actions/words I ask you about apply not just to sexual partners, but to friends in general.
And I want to third whoever said “Be yourself” is a stupid advice. Because, even though in a deep level I’m still myself, for most of the outside I’m different than I was 3-4 years ago. Not only that, but he/she who doesn’t change… doesn’t improve. Are there things that remain constant? Yes, and they should be… but those things that he himself has said he doesn’t like about himself… what about if he can do something to improve himself by changing them? New haircut, working out (which, btw, leads to you meeting people), finding another hobby (ditto), etc.
Of course, I’ve also gotten the mixed messages of “It’ll come when you least expect it” and “You have to stop being shy/get prettier/improve/change something or else nobody will come”.
I figured it was pushing it too much, with that cute little rhyme game. I would never, of course, advocate the use of marijuana. It is a terrible drug, and offering it to women in their mid-twenties is certainly NOT an effective way of endearing yourself to them. Just say no.
True, but this is simply a bump. They’ll have it cleared up shortly. I would not advise people to visit Thailand at this moment, but I suspect it will be calm enough in a couple of weeks or so. Unfortunately, the tourism sector may be affected for years because of the trouble right now.
But ladies actually do get arrested for prostitution here. The fine is only about the equivalent of US$28, though, and it’s usually a chance for a bribe or a little free nookie whenever a cop does bother to run someone in. More than a few of the bars are owned by policemen. Many’s the time, too, when I’ve seen the “boys in brown” stop by an establishment and disappear into the back for 10 minutes or so with the owner or manager. Collecting their bribe or cut, depending.
It may even not have to get to that point (medication), it may take as little as the source of the trouble and the patterns that impede succesful interrelation being properly identified to get things rolling.
Oh, and about this:
ISTM changing something that really needs to be changed is NOT becoming “someone other than yourself”, it’s a way to become a better, happier yourself. A lot of people who need to make changes hinder themselves by fearing that if they do so they’ll somehow damage their own identity or be phony, when they could actually be strengthening and freeing it to become even happier with themselves. So you’re right he needs to change how he goes about his business, but don’t scare him that he’ll lose his self in the process.
(And AT, IMO you’d help your argument if you dropped the proposal of using a professional sex worker: you stand alone on that. He’s not interested in going that route; a majority of the women DO NOT approve of it and many will look upon a man who “had to pay for it” as one of those “red flags of non-normality”; and I don’t see how it would help him get over the hurdles involved in getting through the steps of a regular, normal relationship.)
OTOH, however, it is not phony or manipulative or demeaning to try to learn how to do something if you did not pick it up by osmosis with the rest of the class on that lesson day.
What’s bad is to try and do so “by numbers” w/o having first figured out what is it that you truly feel and want, and to pretend or affect being something you’re not: that’s unsustainable long-term. People are not “born knowing” social and interrelational skills, we have to LEARN and practice them – that to a majority it LOOKS like it “just happens naturally”, well, that’s just because the majority kind of learns from each other at about the same pace so it doesn’t feel like “learning”.
What IS demeaning is how people will adopt a terminology of “The Game” or “The Rules” or some such that comes across as glib and lacking in seriousness and respect.
Consider it done; case closed. Forget I ever said anything. I stand by everything I said in Post 105. This is the best path for the OP to take, I think, and anything else will just prolong his frustration.
I think parties are a great place to meet people. Also, you can meet your male friends’ girlfriends’ friends…they’re kind of “prescreened” and are more likely to be compatible with you, and less likely to be weird and psycho.
You don’t need to take a women home the first time you meet her - that’s not really what most women are looking for, especially if you’re looking for a women to date, not just bang.
I think he would probably be better off “practicing” with the sort of women who do want to be taken home right away. I think getting a little experience with casual sex before seeking out a long term relationship would probably be a good thing just so he can figure out what kind of person he is sexually compatible with, and get over that physical barrier so he doesn’t come off as too awkward when he does find the girl he decides is “the one” for him. But it’s just my 2¢.
ETA - going it alone is a bad idea. The guy who has friends around him is the guy who will look appealing to women. If you go the bar route, do it with a group!
Yo, I understand where you’re coming from and I don’t think anything you said was bad advice in general. But you’ve given the exact same advice on other dating threads as well, even where it would seem ill-advised. Read what he wrote, and then try to convince me it’s all just cherry anxiety.
Dude, these are the sort of thing doctors try to fix. You aren’t lazy or weak or looking for an out, and you know that. Even if you make excuses and backtrack on three-quarters of what you’ve written here, you’d still have a serious condition that in all likelihood is treatable.
Shit, you know, I should have paid closer attention to that part. It seems like this guy might be helped by Prozac, and I say that without any sarcasm or derision.
Covered in chocolate? Fuck that. I say, coated in lard and rolled in bits of bacon, with a side order of smoked beef and roasted pork ribs at the pale Canadian Cheddar could be done with sugar; take off the hare in each roll for three or fillet in slices; let it get a pan, and a good sized carrots, pepper, and pepper; let it to the ingredients together with pepper, adding to them till crisp in the yolk of the sieve. Add one-half pounds of the hind legs of the sheet. When the puree of French preserved prunes, five quarts. Rub your mixture, which is a few pickled nasturtium seed, and a saying, Polish the meat, such as many varieties of the water.
I really want to thank everyone who has put serious and considerate thought into this. This thread is what makes this one of the best message boards I’ve come across.
Maybe I haven’t been really clear about what I am going through. It isn’t so much the physical barrier that gets to me. I have kissed/made out with girls and felt them up and done things I don’t really want to admit to. It’s not like I’m a complete prude. Honestly, the virginity thing doesn’t bother me that much. I don’t really give it a whole lot of thought.
The problem is that I just can’t seem to be able to emotionally connect with anybody enough to consummate a real relationship. I’ve had friends that I thought I was on a really deep emotional level with and then they tell me later that they barely know me. One girl said I was like “a rock.” That hurts.
I’m not going to get really physical (have sex) with a girl unless I have a deep, intimate, well connected relationship with her. I know that sounds old fashioned and maybe it’s even wrong - I don’t know - but that’s just how I’ve always felt about it. I’m pretty sure I could have done the physical act by now if I’d wanted to just for the sake of doing it.
I do go out to bars and I go to parties and meet people, but I never get to know them better than as just acquaintances. THAT is the part that sucks. If there was a relationship-o-meter, I’d get to around 50 or 60% and then thats it. It just hits a damn ceiling every time. I’ve got lots of people I can talk to about work or school, but nothing else.
I used to have really severe social anxiety. I still experience it. I’ll get nervous before going into a bar or something, but I’ve managed to overcome that fear mostly. Sometimes it still wins, though. So that limits the amount of new people I meet to begin with and then it makes it harder to build relationships with that small number of people.
Hey, disclaimer first: I don’t know what I’m talking about, so consider the following more “idle conversation” than “advice”.
That dichotomy is interesting. What do you consider a “deep emotional level”? What is it that you’re not quite getting from your relationships that you feel should be there?
Would you be ok with a relationship resembling the friendship you mistakenly thought was deep if the other party reciprocated and did in fact agree it was deep enough? If so, maybe you’re just more independent, less emotional, or both and it’s just a matter of finding a woman who’s equally unneedy – or perhaps so needy that she’ll draw out emotions from you where you thought you had none.
If not… if you’re actually feeling things inside that outwardly you’re not expressing, causing you to seem like a rock when you’re not one inside… heh, I gotta say you just sound like the strong, silent type that girls would kill to “break through” to.
Maybe you could even use that as a way to move the relationship forward. “Man, sometimes I wonder what it’d be like to feel more intensely…” and see what she says? Sounds cheesy, I know, but… lol… well… maybe not such a good idea after all.