A message for bj0rn...

Dear Bjorn-

Hello. I am not sure if you have read any of my posts yet. I have read many of yours. Please accept me as a well-meaning person who would like to help you.

You make many interesting points. Although I may not agree with you on many of them, I concede that they are usually thought-provoking. I welcome any posts that help me look at the world (including the English language) in a new way. You are also often very funny, and I appreciate that.

Unfortunately, your method of expressing yourself in writing interferes with my comprehension of what you have to say.

I would like to suggest that if you improved your grammar, sentence structure, punctuation, and capitalization, the other posters on this board would be happy to debate with you–not debate about you.

One of the most common criticisms of your posts that I have seen is that you often make statements that are illogical. Your seeming unwillingness to attempt to improve your writing lends credence to the notion that you, yourself, have difficulties with logic.

You have often expressed wonderment at the reluctance of the other posters to take you seriously. An example of this is that your “sarcasm, name-calling…” thread was moved immediately to the pit, even though you were making a sincere attempt to discuss sarcasm as a linguistic device and whether it has a place on a board devoted to fighting ignorance. You seem reluctant to accept what others have stated-that your largely incomprehensible writing makes it impossible to have a reasonable “Great Debate.”

You have expressed to Bucky, who so kindly offered to help you improve your written English, that you would be interested in some help.
Here are some preliminary pointers:
–In English, the pronoun that you use to refer to yourself is always capitalized. You say “I went to the store,” not “i went to the store.”
–In English, the first word of a sentence is capitalized. You say “The sky is blue,” not “the sky is blue.”
–Try not to use sentence fragments. “oh yes, the reason i wanted to keep this thread in the debates,” should be “Oh, yes. That is the reason I wanted to keep this thread in Great Debates.” (“Oh, yes.” is not a sentence fragment. It is considered an exclamation."
–Contractions should have apostrophes in them. “It is” is contracted to “it’s,” not “its.” “That is” is contracted to “that’s,” not “thats.” “Do not” is contracted to “don’t,” not “dont.” If you are unsure of your contractions, don’t use them. Or, to put it another way, do not use them. Although we English-speakers almost always use contractions in speech, we often do not use them in writing. In fact, contractions are considered incorrect in formal written English. This board generally uses informal written English, of course, but using the more formal construction is never incorrect.

Good luck, Bjorn, and I look forward to reading your improved posts.

–Green Bean

Green Bean,

You probably already know this, but bj0rn is from Iceland. Now, I am not truly up on how they teach English over there, so this could be where the issue comes up. I am sure if you are aware of this, your are only trying to help bj0rn with the proper ways to post.

That said, I have been corrected on a Yahoo! club board to keep this into consideration when reading a post by many of its members. For those that English is not their first language, it is difficult at times to properly form sentence structure and understand some of the quirkiness of our written language. (I have the same problem with Spanish, and even English!)

According to Iceland’s main web site, the primary language is Icelandic, while English and Danish are also spoken.

Just a POV from me :slight_smile:

(not flame material eh?)

I forgot to add, I am not familiar how long ago that bj0rn asked for help on improving his/her English language skills, but with English as a second language one can not learn these over night.

I’m not defending bj0rn, just pointing it out.

PS Even I suck at punctuation, grammar and spelling and my mother was an English professor.

I understand that, techchick.

The problem is that Bjorn’s writing is incomprehensible. As Coldfire has so eloquently stated, having English as your second (or third or fourth…) language in no way exempts you from trying to write in an understandable way.

Bjorn complains that he is not taken seriously. Others tell him that this is largely because of his poor writing. He doesn’t seem to het the point. That is the problem I was addressing.

I fully understand the problems that people have when trying to write in English, whether English is their mother tongue or not. In some of my classes (I teach college in NYC–history) over 1/2 the class has English as a second language. I am definitely more lenient with regard to grading for grammar and idiomatic errors than instructors in other situations might be. But–and this is the big But–if the grammar and idiomatic errors significantly interfere with the ideas that the students are trying to express, then their grades are reduced accordingly.

You may say that your grammar, spelling, and punctuation “suck,” techchick, but I have read a ton of your posts, and I have never had any trouble understanding any of them. So, I went back and examined your two posts to this thread, and there were in fact errors. But they did not interfere in any way with my comprehension of what you had to say. Bjorn, unfortuately, is in a whole 'nother category.

Your heart is in the right place, Bean, and I can respect that. But you’re pretty new to this board (although you’ve amassed a pretty impressive post count in a short amount of time), and so unless you’ve either done some archiving or are a second-generation screen name, you’re probably unaware of the Viking’s previous escapades on this board.

The point is, we’ve all tried to reason with bj0rn about his written communication skills, to little or no avail. People have tried being nice to him about it, as you have. People have tried flaming the living crap out of him…that didn’t work either. He’s quite a resilient bastard in that way. I’ve dealt with bj0rn a lot, and trust me, he has no desire to perfect his English skills…otherwise, he would have done it by now. We can even live with improper grammer (sentence fragments)…we’ve implored him simply to use capitalization and/or punctuation. He refuses, most likely because he realizes that his baffling incoherency is the key to his identity around here.

So don’t even bother…bj0rn’s operating on a completely different plane than the rest of us. If his “ideas” intrigue you, so be it, but I can pretty much guarantee you that his best asset is his comedic value (and we’re not laughing with you, bj0rn).


“History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it.” -Winston Churchill

Am I the only one who suspects that bj0rn is just as confusing and illogical when he is speaking in his native tongue?

Over the last several months I’ve slowly learned to parse his bizarre grammar and syntax. Underneath the language barrier there is still a complete absence of any logical or forensic abilities. He is totally oblivious to the subtleties of humor, irony or hypocrisy and his worldview is thoroughy colored by his socialist upbringing and his blind hatred of the United States and its culture.

You simply can’t argue with someone like that. His facility for the English language has little to do with it.

Green Bean,

I 'spose I haven’t read enough of his posts to understand why you felt compelled to write your OP.

So I will keep my mouth shut on this topic from now on.

And to think that he’s actually improved over the past six months. Go and read some of his first posts in The Pit. Sheesh, Loverock made more sense than Bjorn. He used to be mildly amusing. Now I pretty much just skip whatever he writes. I hurts my brain too much trying to read his posts, let alone trying to figure out his logic.

Green Bean, I admire your gesture and enjoy your posts.

However, your faith in in Bj0rn’s ability and desire to learn is misplaced.

Of course, I’ve been wrong before.

Hmm. That last statement doesn’t look right.

In fact, I think it’s wrong.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Green Bean:
**Dear Bjorn-
."

You have expressed to Bucky, who so kindly offered to help you improve your written English, that you would be interested in some help. (end of quotation)

Actually, no. He most recently asked if I am a teacher, ignoring that I’ve pointed out to him that my offer to help is based in some years of experience and ability in teaching. I gave him a list of ideas/rules similar to yours (although I think you did it more succinctly) and he still has followed any of them. He claims that this is “just his style.”

If he listens to you, I will immediately nominate you for King of the Board!!

Hiya and welcome and get off my damn lawn!

Bucky


Oh, well. We can always make more killbots.

damn and darn…
i hate my ******* computer!!!

it crashed when i was half way through my reply…

i will give you my reply when ive calmed down…

thanks green bean…this is the best one yet.

bj0rn - :mad: > computer < :mad:

It’s the man himself! Brace yourselves, lads and lassies :smiley:

Oh, and although this certainly would not go for every pit thread the two of us post in: what Rousseau said.


Coldfire
Voted Poster Most Likely To Post Drunk


WallyM7 on Coldfire:
"Yeah, he knows a little about everything because they have a good prison library."

Green Bean: As others have said, bjørn basically refuses to learn even the most basic rules of English punctuation and grammar. Many people have offered to teach him, yet he claims it’s his “style” (not realizing he’s not writing a book here where it would be allowable (in my opinion at least)). I’m sure the language teachers in Iceland are not so inept they forget to teach students of English basic English grammar and punctuation. Either he’s lazy and careless, or he thinks he’s being original.

He actually does seem to have improved, as Dirty Devil said, but unfortunately he’s not that much better. Anyway, if you can get him to learn basic punctuation and grammar, you will be my new best friend.

Ladeeeeeees and gentlemen! Get ready for the fight of the century here on Linguistic Deathmatch! In this corner, we have bj0rn! Weighing in at 135 lbs. soaking wet, wait, that should be 60 kgs. soaking wet, bj0rn has been crowned the intellectual lightweight champion of his native Iceland! And in this corner, we have the English Language! Weighing in at 500,000 words, or more, and boasting a complex and confusing grammatical structure that it has expertly weilded to defeat all its opponents so far, the English Language is the undisputed champion of the World Linguistic League! And now, bj0rn thinks he can take it on. Is he ready to take on this challenge? Who knows? bj0rn? Any final words before the fight begins? I’m sorry, I can’t understand a word you’re saying… Now, remember. No hitting below the belt, and no dangling your participle. Gentlemen… get ready for round one… now!

BONG!!!


Heck is where you go when you don’t believe in Gosh.

snort

Neuro, you bitch. Have I told you lately that you absolutely rock?


Coldfire
Voted Poster Most Likely To Post Drunk


WallyM7 on Coldfire:
"Yeah, he knows a little about everything because they have a good prison library."

I never joined in the bj0rn flaming for one reason.
I couldn’t understand his posts. At all. not a single word. I mean, each word taken alone I recognized, but not in the order he posts them.
I usually can only read 1 or 2 lines of his posts, but when he makes a long post with no posting I get a headache.

But I leave him alone.


**Id rather be no one than someone with no one **

Neuro, if I had flowers, I would throw them at your feet. You are the coolest. :cool:

LET’S GET RRRRRRRRREADY TO RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUMBLE!

Esprix, inspired by neuro-trash grrrl


Ask the Gay Guy!

Neuro, you’re my heeeeero!

That was beautiful neuro, can I place a bet upon “The English Language” to win?


Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate mother-fucker.