A thread for Esprix,Sqrl, Matt or any other gay dopers

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
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I was just watching the Roseanne talk show, ( yea? and I suppose you always do something exciting when you are home alone at 2 AM?)and she had this kid on who is now numbered among my personal heros. His name is Jared, and he has been leading a fight against the Orange County school board against their refusal to sanction a school club he wishes to start called " The Gay-Straight Alliance “, to promote communication between people of different backgrounds and orientations. He is 16, gay, and, so he said, a virgin. ( I tend to doubt anyone who says that at 16, gay or straight, particularly when they are leading a crusade for sexual freedom ) This kid ROCKS! He was witty, intelegent and not afraid to stand his ground angainst tough questions. ( As tough as they get on Roseanne, anyway.) His club is now meeting under a court ordered injunction, as the fundies try to rally around and get their very un-Christian hate regulations enforced by the courts. Roseanne asked him why he didn’t just change the name of the club, because the school board had indicated that if he called it the “Club of Tolerance” or some such, that would be OK. His response? " Nobody should have to be tolerated.” I STOOD AND CHEERED!!! THIS is the hope for the future of America. I do have one question for Y’all though.
While watching this kid, what kept going through my mind was a Homer Simpson quote:" Marge, you know I like my TV loud, my beer cold, and my homosexuals flaaaaaaming!" This kid made RuPaul look like George W Bush. ( well, not quite, but his actions and manerisms were very RuPaulian ) I ask you folks because you are presumeably more in tune with the gay community than I. ( And I hate to put it that way. It violates one of my fundamental principals:" There is no THEM, only people." There is great danger in lumping people into homogionus groups and then ascribing qualities to the group as a whole. It ignores the fact that groups are just made up of a bunch of individuals ) Let me state that I have no beef with people being who they are. None. ( like a guy who calls himself “Weirddave” has any leg to stand on when criticizing a persons manerisms :rolleyes: ) It is not a criticism. Jared also said he liked to perform for people, and sing to groups. I understand that performers must posess a degree of flamboyance. My question is on of curiosity, not condemnation.

What is up with those extremely flamboyent homosexuals that you see? Is this just who these people are? Or are they hiding insecurity, pain and a lifetime of being treated badly behind a facade` of flamboyance? It’s probobly a bit of all three. Again,I am not criticizing or condeming. I am trying to understand. Any insights you could give me would be greatly apreciated. Oh, and I am not a shill for conformity. I hate conformity. It’s just that many of the manerisms and behaviors seem SO over the top that I’m wondering if I’m unaware of a dynamic going on here. Thank you for your replies.

Oh, and Esprix, welcome back from the middle ages :smiley:

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[little highjack] Hi Dave…hope you are well! [/end little highjack]

This program is now joined in progress.

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[reply to hijack] I’m fine, TC. If you had ICQ on or were in chat, you could ask me yourself.[/reply to hijack]
Any serious replies? Please?

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weirddave – well, frankly, yes I am (doing something exciting when you are home alone at 2 AM) If I’m not here at two a.m. I’m probably in my bed rubbing myself into ecstacy…

But as far as being flamboyantly gay; it’s up to the person. Most folks that meet me in real life have no idea that I swing both ways. I’m not over the top gay. I’m over the top just all around. I’m vocal and intense and generally just one of those people you can’t ignore. But you could never just look at me and “guess” that I’m bisexual. You would just peg me as extroverted.

Why some folks really try to advertise through voice and body that they are gay? Dunno. That might just be how they are comfortable being. They aren’t trying to “act” gay or anything, it is just the way they are. And some folks who “seem” to be “acting” this way are NOT gay. It’s just mannerisms that they have learned. It’s just their way of being.

There is no “gay” stereotype. There is no “bisexual” stereotype. There just is people. You have to get to know them before you can peg them out. And even then, you might be wrong. I guess, in the end, it really doesn’t matter unless they are hitting on you.

I would hope that you would just be comfortable saying, “oh, thanks, but no thanks” and not going into some ballistic homophobic rage. I’ve been on the receiving end of that and it’s so damn stupid. I was just asking. If you aren’t interested, a polite no is fine. I don’t need to hear that I’m scum for wanting to love and touch another woman.

Just my 2 cents.

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Byz, thx. you said:

I may not have been clear, but that was one of the points I was trying to make.

I have been, and I do respond thus. Personaly, I hope this was a general comment and not directed at me, because it 180 degrees from who I am. If not, than I have put forth a drasticly distorted view of myself through my posts, and that worries me.

I’d be happy to help…:slight_smile:

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Well, I disagree with Byz about “stereotypes” (oh my Spam, I must be crazy!), but only on a semantical level… meaning, stereotypes are only accurate on a very general level.

Anyway…

I, too, act rather “flamboyantly”. Am I gay? Uh… dunno. I’m kind of a semi-eunuch. So why am I rather “out-there” in my behavior? In my case, it’s excellent emotional armor. Could some gay people be hiding behind their behavior? I can guarantee that some are. Are most? Probably not.

I hope this helps… could it be that you really only notice the “flamboyant homosexuals”, as it were? I mean, you always notice the most wild and crazy people, in general… I have no doubt that there’re a good number of gay people running around out there who are quiet as mice.

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Stereotypes exist because they’re sometimes true.

I’ve never understood why some gay people people have such a problem with femme gay guys. I’m not femme all the time, but sometimes I get in femme moods and then I have to act out or explode, basically, and then I just turn into Miss Thang. And I get such the dirtiest looks from people, it’s just not fair.

What’s up with us? We do it because it feels good. Why does it feel good? Dunno, it just does. I’m not the feyest creature around (that would be my friend Mark - “You must be Matt’s dad oh my god it’s so good to meet you!”) but I still like being femme when the mood strikes. It’s just this thing I do. That’s all. I wouldn’t do it if it didn’t feel good.

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If you want “flambouyant” you should check out an actual Southern Belle some time…these are women trained from birth to be SO frilly and SO feminine you have to wonder if their wrists are strong enough to support a cup of coffee…not that any of them would be so crass as to drink a cup of something as lower-class as COFFEE.

Oh, man…or the freshmen from any college or university with a decent-sized art program…it’s fun to go people-watching in late August when school starts…go have coffee at one of the shops near the university, and watch them struggle not to die of heat exhaustion because it’s 95 degrees out and 90% humidity but they’re too COOL to wear shorts and t-shirts, and must instead wear their leather pants and black turtlenecks…

Do the Southern Belles reflect poorly on women as a whole? Well, kinda…but no one asks why they behave that way. Do the Freshmen More-Goth-Than-Thou art kids reflect poorly on art students in general? Well, kinda, but you also know they’ll get over it in a few years. Well, some don’t, but they grow up to be the eccentric artist types that everyone wants to know (but not too well, please), so that’s all right too.

The thing is, when a certain segment of gay folk prefer to use broad, sweeping gestures, or talk in a certain way, or dress a certain way, there’s no reason any more attention should be called to him or her than should be called to a belle or a gothkid…but because there is objection to homosexuality it IS. “Why do THEY have to act like that?” Why do you have to start bellowing “Achy Breaky Heart” a tone and a half off-key as soon as you get a couple of beers into you? You don’t. You do it because it’s FUN. 'Nuff said.

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Please note that I didn’t say " Why do the HAVE to do that", I asked “Why do they do that”. I have no problem with people who act that way, I don’t even find it all that odd, and it’s certainly not distasteful. The question would be just as valid for the southers belles you mentioned, the answer there seems more straightforward, they were raised that way. On further reflection, I suppose they are just behaving, as you said, in a way that’s fun and comfortable for them. That’s great, I just wondered if there was maybe another reason I haden’t grasped.

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The other evening the Llama and I were at Crate and Barrell registering for wedding gifts (yes, it’s early, but they do recommend registering at least 6 months in advance). At the end of the evening, we turned in our paperwork to a person who fit the stereotype–and count me in the crowd that says stereotypes exist–of the hyper-feminine male.

He wasn’t flamboyant, just very, very feminine: the way he moved his hands, the lispy, lilty quality in his voice, the way he actually spoke (word choice, patterns, etc.). I remember thinking when he first spoke, “I wonder if he’s gay,” then felt bad because it was a judgment based on stereotype. However, when the Llama and I were leaving, he asked if I, too, thought the guy seemed feminine. We then had a discussion about stereotyping, and said, as matt_mcl already has, that stereotypes exist because they are based on some amount of truth. Does that mean the guy’s gay? Not necessarily, although I would be inclined to think so.

I mentioned that the stereotype of the “kept woman” and “Daddy’s girl” exists because there are plenty of women out there whose goal in life is to have someone take care of her, much to my chagrin…as I am not that type of woman (hell no), I’ve often felt the need to defend myself as an Independent Woman and not a princess. Heck, the fact that I’m getting married has been a regular challenge to this, as person after person has said “It’s your day,” (not the groom’s, too?), and as nearly every list of paperwork I’ve encountered describes what the bride is resposible for–as if the groom has no say. Sure, the stereotype is that the woman does everything and the man just smiles and nods. But we’re an exception to that.

All that to say…stereotypes aren’t evil because they exist. What makes them wrong is when they’re used against someone, when a judgment is irrevocably made based solely on a vague impression. People are people. Some fit in a certain stereotype, and some do not. We should all be wise enough and observant enough to know which is the case with the individuals we encounter, and intelligent enough to know that regardless–it doesn’t really matter.

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weirddave – no hidden agenda at you. I guess I just want to get the message out there to people; it’s not some kind of personal attack to be “hit on” by a member of the same sex. Believe me, I’ve had some women really, really flip out. I don’t scare easily but I’m sure if that one bitch had a gun in her purse she would have gladly shot me dead. And hey, I’ll see you here at oh, how about 10? :wink:

SPOOFE Bo Diddly (puts name on THE LIST for disagreeing with me) Well that’s the problem with stereotypes! Now get over here so I can scratch your eyes out!

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I would imagine that it is also useful for letting others know that you are gay. I mean, how can you get hit on by gay guys if they are just going to assume that you are straight. I would imagine that it’s partly genetic, in that people who are genetically predisposed to wanting to have sex with members of their own gender might also be genetically predisposed to acting in ways that will attract similar people. Just a thought.

I’ve noticed that when it comes to picking up those subtle signals that gay men use to determine when to hit on someone, I seem to be the source of a few, errr, false positives. I generally take it as a compliment. There was one guy, though, that kept winking at me and stuff, and I felt more disgusted and insulted by it, but that was because he was much older, and kind of pathetic, and besides, I was out of his league ;).

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Once my aunt, who is from England, met up with one of her friends, also from England, while I was visiting her in Maryland. As I listened, both of their accents became stronger and stronger.

Being gay is kind of like that. :slight_smile:

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Hell, I would take it as a compliment. I would gracefully decline, but I would be very flattered!!

GAYDAR…

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Yeah, but what sets off GAYDAR? The subtle signals that gay men make (intentionally or unintentionally) to alert others that they are gay. Subtelty is becoming less and less important as society accepts homosexuality more and more.

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–Hanging around the 4th floor of the Y late Saturday night.

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LOL…

No waterj,

GAYDAR is an actual device invented by some professor at a college somewhere. (Must I look up ALL the facts?)

It works like this:
You buy they GAYDAY device which is a small beeper type device. It sends and receives signals to/from other GAYDARS. When you are near another gay person with GAYDAR, it starts to vibrate. The closer you get, the harder it vibrates. This lets you know that the person you are next to is gay.

It kind of reminds me of when two immortals for Highlander get close and start scensing each other.

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Yeah, and when Esprix starts the “There can be only one” Thread, matt and sqrlcub had better watch out.

You are kidding about this device, right?

And Doug, the Y near my house only has two floors. And it’s pretty dead on Saturday nights. I, uh, know that because, uh, I, uh…

What I mean is, what’s a Y?

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I tend to think that “feminine” behavior in gay guys is used as a signal. It’s like saying “Hi, I’m gay!” without wearing rainbow earrings or whatever. They are, I believe, just letting people know their orientation without having to voice it.

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All about Gaydar:

All from this site:
http://www.keepstill.com/masculinfinity/news/gaydar.html