Aah...unrequited affections

Yes, but I’m talking about “seemingly” confident people. For instance, I carry myself with my held high and a smile on my face. I speak clearly and deliberately, keeping eye contact with my target. However, my inner confidence pales in comparison. I’m actually usually a nervous wreck about things, but everyone around me is none the wiser.

The TC is probably one that acts confidently around the women he takes interest in, because, as we’ve all heard, women love confident men. However, inside, the TC could in fact be just another AFC (like me).

Ladder Theory.

Soapbox Monkey, get the hell out of my head.

I went through all that for the latest time time just this past Saturday. Thing is, however, in this case I think it IS for the best that I put up with some self-torture, because the alternative really wouldn’t be all that great. I’m almost twice her age, for one thing. For another, there is no doubt in my mind that were we to actually get together at some point, we’d drive each other batty within 72 hours. Lastly, it’s just my mind and body conspiring against me; I’m not hurting badly for female company or affection when it comes right down to it.

Sometimes unrequited is definitely the way to go.

Yeah, unrequited love or at least the thought you’re in love but infatuated can really hurt. Its a lot worse when you’re younger, I think. In High School I had a girl I was infatuated with named Karen. At least she let me down gently, but it crushed me for a long time. I was only 16, but it felt like I’d feel crushed forever back then. Then later it was Maria. but she started dating a guy named Joey. This guy had me outclassed by so much even my best friend at the time told me to just give it up. He was better looking, had more money, a better car and they were both latino. I tried though. I’d bring her flowers, etc. It was when I saw them both on TV on a local teen dance show winning some kind of best dancing couple prize that I threw in the towel. My friend, though he tried to be supportive couldn’t stop laughing at me.

Then there was Petra. Since junior year in High School I wore my heart on my sleeve for her. Even when she dated other guys I kept thinking “One day she’ll see how much I care about her and we’ll get together.” Right.:rolleyes:

Freshman year in college (we went to different colleges, me out of state, but only an hour or so away) I asked her to be my date to a big ball my school threw every year. She said yes, and I was over the moon. I got a new freakin’ suit to wear. but when I came to pick her up she told me that she knew I was in love with her, but she just plain didn’t feel that way about me and she just wanted to be friends. To that end she didn’t think she should go to the ball with me since it would only hurt me further. I was devastated. I think only the girl that in the future cheated on me hurt me worse. It felt like my insides were just ripped out. I left her dorm, and spent hours walking around drinking Mad Dog 20/20. Then I thought, maybe I need to just proclaim my sincere true love to her to make her change her mind. Yeah, I realize now how dumb that was. At the time though I was drunk, young and totally in love with this girl. So I drunkenly went back to the dorm knocked on her door and as soon as she opened it I barged in and loudly said "I’ve loved you since 10th grade! I can’t live without you, Petra, PLEASE can’t you see how much I love you!!!?", only to look around and see her parents and brother were visiting and looking at me like a crazy man. I ran out of the room and went to a nearby park where I sat all night swiggin’ liquor and crying…rather loudly, too. I ain’t makin’ this up, either, though it sounds like a teen movie from the 80s.

The bittersweet part is that as the sun rose I saw her coming towards me on my bench. She told me that after her parents left she’d been looking for me all night. (she called my house I found, and asked my grandmother where I was…my grandma didn’t know who she was and told her “He’s at the ball with some girl he went to school with”.) She at least held me a little while and apologized for hurting me so badly and told me she loved me like a friend since I was really a nice guy. So I felt a little better, but for years I thought I’d never ever be in love with anyone again. Man, I’ll never forget how bad that felt.

Jolly Roger, I won’t quote anything in particular from your post, because it’s all very good (not that I bask in your torment, it’s just a great story that I’m sure a lot of people can relate to). I can only imagine the look on her parent’s faces when you barged in there.

I thought that might be the case. I don’t think that anyone can say that a TC has no fears. I think the truly part comes from the recognition, acknowledgement, and acceptance of those fears without allowing them to debilitate or dictate his actions. It’s a choice. And I have experienced what the OP is talking about but I sure as hell would never choose to put myself in that situation again.

This is in no way aimed at you personally, mauxlicious, but I just have to respond to this statement.

You know, this kind of detached Buddhist Zen calm thing drives me crazy. I know a ton of people like this: “Oh, if you were truly confident in yourself, someone else’s behavior toward you wouldn’t affect how you feel!” “True happiness comes from within, so someone else should have no affect on your state of mind.” “It’s your expectations of others that create unhappiness.”

Listen, if I like someone and it turns out they don’t like me, IT’S GONNA HURT. Why? Because I like them, and I want them to like me, and they don’t, and that bothers me and causes me to ask “why not? what’s wrong with me?” At least for a little while, there’s going to be a process of dealing with that pain. I think the idea that we can remain completely untouched and unaffected by other people if we are simply strong within ourselves is dismissive, demeaning, and ultimately a “blame the victim” mentality.

It also makes me question the ability of the speaker to feel deeply about anything. I think that people who have this ability to remain unhurt when people they love leave them, or when people they love don’t love them back, don’t really feel deeply about the other person in the first place.

I wouldn’t take it personally, or at least I wouldn’t admit to it while I secretly pit you with another user name! :smiley:

The disconnection that you talk about, IMO, displays a common fundamental misunderstanding people have of this type of belief system. Acknowledging that you have this fear or feeling or pain means fully embracing it and admitting that it is real. It’s being fully in the moment able to say I hurt, or I want, I love, or I am angry. That’s the experience. It’s not that things don’t make me react. I am a creature of instinct and habit and fear and a host of other things. But it’s a coupling of those experiences with what I believe is the underlying truth. I believe that I can experience all these things while still being rooted in peace. And I can choose my reaction more properly when I admit to myself it is going on, but I am still ok even if this is happening to me.

A more eloquent summary can be found here:

http://leb.net/~mira/works/prophet/prophet16.html

With all due respect, that’s bullocks. (And I mean that in the nicest way, of course. ;))

It’s not that you can remain unaffected by other people, it’s that you attach little importance to outcome from someone you barely even know. It’s not dismissive, it’s perspective.

Let’s say that you spot that Special Someone from across the room, and you approach him or her, and try to start a conversation. He or she says “Get lost, loser.” Were you rejected? How can you be? The person doesn’t even know you.

And it’s not a “blame the victim” mentality. Why does someone deserve blame? Why is someone a victim?

Look, it’s OK to get yourself wrapped up in another person. It’s admirable. But before you put your fragile ego under their heel, might it be a good idea to go out on at least one date with them?

If you are centered and trust in your own happiness, not only is that not demeaning, but it accomplishes two things: One, it mitigates the hurt, by a lot. And two, it increases your chances of success dramatically. You drop the victim mentality and put yourself on an even footing with your intended. And that’s attractive.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. The people I’ve interacted with, however, seem to take it to the extreme of “you shouldn’t ever feel anything but peace, even if someone that you’ve loved for years leaves you, and if you do, it indicates that you’re too attached.”

I didn’t have that kind of situation in mind when I posted, and I agree that that level of reaction in the event you described would be a bit :dubious:.

I meant the people that have embraced the non-attachment ideal to the point where they believe that even if a lover or friend of long standing leaves you or betrays you, if you allow yourself to be hurt by that, it’s an indication of a “wrong” attachment to the outcome. That’s the kind of reaction I intended to describe.

Hahaha. You know we did remain friends even up til now, though recently our communication is maybe a “how are you” email every so often or a Christmas card. Petra got married, had kids and got divorced when her husband dumped her. She remarried 3 years ago and since I move a lot I usually call her parents for an update on her address or to let her know where I am, etc. I tell you this because her mother laughed about that incident (in a friendly way) a few years back when i called to tell them I was shipping out to germany again. She said she always thought I was a good kid and and that she felt really bad for me when I ran out of the room. (it kinda rubs a little salt in the old wound but her mother said she told Petra after her divorce ***“You should have married Jolly Roger. He really loved you, you know”. ***)

Oh well, thats life. :cool:

Thanks for the clarification. There is, of course, a huge difference between losing someone who you’ve known for 5 seconds and someone with whom you’ve built a life.

People who get really frustrated with dating tend to blur that line.

My solution the last couple times this happened was to distract myself with a different girl. Army Girl (hah, anybody remember my posts about twitterpation back in February or March?) gradually gave way to Redheaded Female Airman, who gradually gave way to Blonde Airman and Female Marine (at the same time, but both mellowed out into friend relationships, with the female Marine becoming my drinking buddy. Marines make for highly entertaining drunks:D.)

Hmm, I should maybe consider trying to date girls who are not in the military. Doesn’t seem to be working so far.

But yeah, been there, done that, numerous times. Most recently over a girl I wasn’t ever really even THAT interested in when she was single. Gotta love that “No longer available” interest perk.:rolleyes:

I think I see the problem. The mother should have said “I forbid you to date Jolly Roger!”

:slight_smile:

I just wanted to add that Jolly Roger’s story really touched me.

Fair play to you for sharing it and I feel for you my friend. How’s the love life these days?

But it sounds like the OP might have known this woman for a while, really been attracted to her for a while, and is now regreting not doing anything about it while she found someone else to date. That’s different than the scenario of seeing someone for 5 seconds from across a room. In that situation, I think the idea that Soapbox Monkey should assume that his disappointment is inappropriate or that he should be all Zen and in the zone about it is somewhat dismissive.

The guy came here to express his frustration and disappointment, and I’m not sure hearing Kahlil Gibran philosophy is really going to help. It’s okay, I think, to actually feel disappointment in that situation.

Of course, anyone visiting this board to receive sympathy will also receive a rousing dose of “suck it up, punk!” and “pull yourself up, junior!” feedback as well, so…:smiley:

In this particular case, I agree, and I empathize. I’ve been there myself, far too often. Is sucks ass.

But I think that my advice is still sound, if only for the future. I think that it’s a mistake to get too wrapped up in someone without either making a move or ending the friendship, or at the very least keeping some perspective on it. Being secretly in love with a friend for a long time almost never ends well. (There are exceptions, but I think that they’re rare.)

I’ve been married for 14 years, so its pretty good. but thanks!:slight_smile:

It did take me some time to get over Petra. (whenever I hear a song by squeeze I think about her, since she loved that band). I’m just glad we were able to remain friends. She wasn’t someone that was mean about the entire thing, she genuinely felt bad about hurting me, even though its not really her fault. Though she never brings it up I know she must laugh about the whole barging in thing with friends from time to time. Heck, I think its funny now. Ah, the things you do when you’re in love and young.

One thing none of us have said, is that sometimes we might be the ones that are the focus of someone elses unrequited love. I still kick myself for this. After I started to get over the Petra thing I figured that women just didn’t like me. There were girls in college that I liked and hung out with, but they almost always told me “You’re such a good friend!” which in girl-speak means I like you, but you’ll never have me.

Until Beth. Gawd, she was pretty. Really pretty. Tall, long brown hair, deep blue eyes and a smile that really would just make the sun shine. But when I first met her it was at a party and she was in a corner alone. Every time I saw her on campus she was alone. (which was boggling since she was really awesome looking.) I thought she was stuck up or something. So I brazenly went to over to her and said “How come every time I see you you’re alone? Don’t you like people?”. She said (and man her voice was like music) “no one ever talks to me. Its like everyone is afraid of me or something. I came to this party because I got tired of being alone and you’re the first person to speak to me.” . I instantly felt bad. So I sat and talked to her for awhile. We became friends. We had a few classes together so we saw each other every day. We’d have lkunch together, go see a movie together, just hang out you know.

On my birthday that year I decided not to go to class. I figured i’d take the day off and chill by myself. She came to my apartment that morning with a present saying that she knew i’d be goofing off on my birthday and so she didn’t go to class either. I was touched. She was the only person to actually get anything for my birthday for me. I thought, man, what a good friend. But because of my past failures with girls and the Petra thing I always thought in the back of my mind "a girl like beth…too good for my sorry ass. She’s a good friend, but a girl like her would never want a loser like me for more than a friend.".

So one evening we were sitting on a bench on campus just chatting and she tells me she’s been having wierd recurring dreams. I ask about what. Erotic dreams she tells me. Oh, starring who? I ask her. Someone you know she says.

I start rattling off names of everyone guy I knew, even some that she didn’t know. Yes, I’m that thick. Even when she denied it was any of the people I mentioned I’d go through the list again. She said no to all of them. So i said "If its someone I know you just don’t want to tell me. Fine."

Frustrated she stood up and yelled "Its you, dummy! I dream about you!"

I laughed. In her face. not to be mean. because I was truly clueless. I laughed because even when she said that I could not believe for a second that she had any kind of loving beyond friends feelings for me. again, I am…or at least was back in the day…that thickheaded. Beth ran off crying. I didn’t see her for days and she wouldn’t return my calls. I talked to my roommate about it and he almost slapped me. Then he had to explain to me that Beth reallyy really liked me and was basically telling me “I’m yours if you want me”.

but it was a bit too late. We still got along but I could tell that I had really hurt her feelings. We never did get together obviously, but its all my fault because I broke her heart, even though I didn’t mean to or want to. I still feel badly about it. And I will admit I’m an imbecile for it. She really was all that and a bag of chips. I just couldn’t believe she was interested in me. I guess even chumps like me can be the target of someones unrequited love.

My word, the timing on this one is just perfect. I just found out today that a good friend of mine that I’d developed a bit of a crush (Guy A) on has just started dating another good friend of mine (Girl B), in a casual sort of way. I’d had suspicions that this might happen for about a week, so I can’t say I was completely surprised (Okay, I was, just a little, as she had JUST broken up with a fairly long term boyfriend, who may or may not actually realize that she has broken up with him).

I’m actually not as torn up about it as I thought I might be, just kinda relieved to actually know what is going on, and thinking that maybe I can get my head out of the absolute bender of frustration I’d been working on the past few days (You know, “How could you go and get a crush on one of your best friends, you complete moron!!” on endless loop). Also, seeing as I will be moving away from the area in a few months, I’m not even entirely sure I want to get in a relationship, despite how absolutely sick I am of being single.