Ace0spades deserves your approbrium scorn and contempt

[Scylla]

I think most of us who have encountered the Acehole realize he is none too bright nor well-informed. For a while, I thought he was trolling, because nobody could be that consistently wrong and stupid over such wide and diverse subject matter.

For example, in the cat thread in great debates here he asked a question about the ethicality of allowing his cat to roam in an urban environment and kill wildlife like Sparrows and woodpeckers.

He received several replies showing cites from veterinary societies, humane societies, cat advocate groups, cat magazines, environmental societies, and others all of which agree that outdoor cats cause catastrophic damage to wildlife, cause dangers to human beings (including plague,) and that an inside/outside cat’s average lifespan is only 25%-30% that of an indoor cat. Various studies on wildlife and cat ownership were cited by these groups.

Ace’s reply was that this was “soft,” and that he didn’t think those were good cites.

What he presents us with in return is a cite from “messybeasts” which purports to distill some internet discussions found in various forums, and presents the conclusion that some individual cat owners are too stupid to be aware of the facts and don’t think outside cats hurt wildlife or are at greater risk.

This is stupid enough, and nothing unusual for Ace. The fact is I don’t care what you or he or do with your cats, and your decision is your decision. The facts of the issue though, aren’t rationally disputable.

The problem occurs when I address Ace’s cite.

What I meant to say were words to the effect that the cite was anecdotal, and amateurish, and not really useful.

What I actually typed was the following:

Your cites aren’t anecdotal, they’re amateur opinion

Clearly from context, I thought anecdotal was bad, because shortly thereafter I say:

I’ll clue you in on something else anecdotal = bad.

The fact that your cite consists of a collection of anecdotal unfounded opinion means that it is absolutely useless for any other purpose than surveying what people’s personal opinions are.

Ace has listed all the anecdotal responces, and points out that I claimed his cite wasn’t anecdotal, quoting to me the passage where I mistyped.

I respond as follows:

Ace:

I stand corrected. I did say they “weren’t anecdotal.”

This was a typo.

What I meant to say was that your cites weren’t credible, as they were anecdotal and amateur.

My apologies for the mistake.

This is however a Pyrrhic victory for you at best. Anecdotal is not a good thing if you are trying to present a credible, fact-based arguement.

Thus I admit my error, clarify it, apologize, and move on.
Ace responds as follows:

Scylla: It is not a typo. You could not have meant to say “your arguments aren’t anecdotal, they’re amateur opinion,” when you missed something on the keyboard and said "your arguments aren’t both anecdotal, and they’re amateur opinion.

Therefore this is a rather huge lie, distorion, what have you; and, compounded with your execrable laziness in not looking at all at my cites, is condemnatory indication of bad-faith argument. As this seems to be a pattern with you, I will no longer bother to respond to your GD posts, as they take away time and energy and offer little to nothing of sustenance to actual debate.

So, in this one reply we has called me a liar, a distorter, lazy, and says that such is a pattern with me.

That is his response to my good faith apology.

My response was simply to offer him the opportunity to reconsider his stance. Thus far he has not.

Personally, I’m not too offended. I expected as much. Ace has proven time and time again, that not only is he stupid, but that he’s a contemptible asshole.

---

What is worse though is that Ace is a bigot. Ace has an unreasoning and fanatical hatred of Republicans. He wears it like a badge that he is proud of.

He is proud to generalize and call Republicans evil, and that Repbulicans are worthy of hate.

I get the feeling from many of our more liberal posters, that they’re none too thrilled that Ace is an avowed Democrat/liberal. He tends to hurt positions he tries to support with his over the top hate rhetoric.

What Ace fails to understand, is that unreasoning hatred towards another group is the real evil, that the act of hating makes one vile, that hatred is the weapon that allows the Klanman to put the sheet over his head.

Some people can only feel good about themselves if they have a boogeyman to hate and blame, a bad guy that they can point to to put all their problems upon, an excuse to hide from their own large inadequacies.

It has always been this way. There have always been such people, and Ace is one of them.

In
This thread he quotes these cites seriously as reasons to hate:

2000 reasons to hate Republicans

Republican hate site

That was his ultimate cite after telling others to “fuck off” when asked for a cite showing that Bush, Cheney, or Ashcroft call people that disagree with a war on Iraq “traitors” as he says they do.

There are lots more examples of Ace’s fanatical hatred and stupidity. Anybody that’s argued with him, knows whereof I speak.

My examples are just from Ace’s posts today.
My opinion is that Ace is deliberately hateful and ignorant and is immune to reason. He has that all too common combination of absolute ignorance, stupidity, and arrogance, without a modicum of empathy or common sense.

Grow up, Ace.

[Guinastasia]

Ace is a liberal?

Then why is he always insulting the liberals?

I try to avoid his posts, or just skim them for the general content. Too much of a headache.

Oh, and keeping your cats indoors is better. Quit being a shit and take responsibility for your cat.

[elucidator]

You got too far, Scylla Criticism may well be called for, but your disdain (“contemptible asshole”) is well nigh imperial, and you have no claim to it. You can make no claim to innocence. You and he share a similar failing: an inability to tolerate disagreement with poise. Though, in truth, it must fairly be noted that this varies, you have often conducted your arguments with grace and humor.

But too often it seems that merely making good points is not sufficient for you, you strive to humiliate your opposition more than enlighten. Ths is doubly unfortunate in that you have much to offer, if only you could offer it with generosity.

In truth, to the extent that I am able to speak it, if I were to see one of his most intemperate posts side by side with one of your own, I could not say whom had authored which, and which was the more mean-spirited.

Come, see the opportunity: forgive each other, forgive yourselves, and today there are three better men than before. What more worthy a goal have you?

[5-HT]

I really liked how in the “traitor” thread, he refuses to provide a cite for his claims, then someone else provides one(which is later debunked fairly well by december of all people) and Ace then proclaims

No problem. I’m surprised you didn’t know that quote – if you can’t find the other two, e-mail me, and I’ll be happy to give you them.

oh, I see, he had the cites all along but just doesn’t feel like posting them. Perhaps he should learn the expression “put up or shut up”. Jesus, I’ve seen more mature behavior from grade schoolers.

[Rockford]

::Pulls up a lawn chair and waits for Ace to show up so the fight can start::

[Epimetheus]

I was amused that he felt that his anectodal evidence carried more weight than all the cites DanielWinthrow listed. Opinions and fact by qualified and trained vetenarians. I guess Jo-schmo cat owner knows more about Cats than a person that attended 10 years of college for it.

Ace seems to suffer from that “justify my opinions any way possible instead of conceding a victory” syndrome. Ignore facts and well reasoned arguments, that way I look smart because I don’t admit I am wrong.

[Scylla]

Elucidator:

I find many of the sentiments in you post worthwhile, and your criticisms of me may be valid and are well-taken.

I’ll respond with what I think are the key differences that validate my position:

1. I’ve never slammed somebody for acknowledging, correcting, and apologizing for an error, nor do I believe have you. In fact I imagine you would be challenged to find such another instance on the board. Their may be one, but such assholery is a rarity.

2. Ace is a hateful bigot. His target is a simply a group that shares different beliefs than him.

But too often it seems that merely making good points is not sufficient for you, you strive to humiliate your opposition more than enlighten.

That would be a fair criticism. As a rule of thumb I try not to pull out the stops unless it becomes clear to me that my opponent is not debating in good faith. When that occurs I feel that the person no longer deserves to be treated with the good faith they are not reciprocating. The acknowledged problem with this is that I am going only on my judgement, and can and do err.

Come, see the opportunity: forgive each other, forgive yourselves, and today there are three better men than before. What more worthy a goal have you?

Well sure. My acknoweldgement and apology didn’t seem to go over all that well though, you’ll admit. After having been treated in such a manner, what would you have me do?

[wring]

awww shit, Scylla can’t we just talk about december???

[elucidator]

Keep up the good work?

[Homebrew]

Ace0spades deserves your approbrium scorn and contempt

You’re just now reaching that conclusion? I could have told you that weeks ago.

[Jurhael]

“I get the feeling from many of our more liberal posters, that they’re none too thrilled that Ace is an avowed Democrat/liberal.”

Good to know he’s not a Socialist. His behavior sometimes makes me want to dive to my right!

[Milossarian]

**You and he share a similar failing: an inability to tolerate disagreement with poise.

**
I’d just like to note that elucidator said that.

Elucidator said that.

I kept waiting for the universe to immediately end. But … nada.

We now return you to a well-deserved, if obvious, flame.

[Squink]

Milossarian, I’m surprised you could contain your outrage over the smirking republicans long enough to pass out Gold Stars. Be sure to save back a extra-special one for yourself.

[iampunha]

*Originally posted by Rockford *
::Pulls up a lawn chair and waits for Ace to show up so the fight can start::

Psst, Rockford, read Lynn Bodoni’s list of Pit Rules at the top of this forum. Among others, the type of post you wrote is specifically frowned upon.

FYI:)

[The_Ace_of_Swords]

Scylla, I fixed your OP, you made a few typos:

*Originally posted by Scylla, fixed by Ace *
I think most of us who have encountered the Acehole realize he takes no guff. For a while, I thought he was beatable, because I have a consistently overrated view of myself.

For example, in the cat thread in great debates he suggests anecdotal data may be superior to factually unfounded appeals to authority and then bothers to take some of his busy time to contact the American Veterinary Journal of Research to get the Straight Dope. We can’t have people backing up their assertions with data, so I decided not to read his links and slammed him with the following:

“Your cites aren’t anecdotal, they’re amateur opinion.”

Clearly from context, I had made a massive error, because immediately thereafter, Ace hands me my head by posting 40 or so pieces of anecdotal data, which were clearly linked to in the previous post. D’oh! I completely ignore my fuck-up and say:

The fact that you found some people who wrote in to Cat sites to talk about Poofy’s cat hammock, and that some of them share your idiotic opinions, doesn’t prove anything.

I’ll clue you in on something else anecdotal = bad.

After Ace demands a retraction, or an admission of my collosal laziness and ineptitude, I … pretend it was a typo.

cough

I’m not sure how it could possibly have been a typo, but science is advancing daily. The important thing is Ace responds as follows:

It is not a typo. You could not have meant to say “your arguments aren’t anecdotal, they’re amateur opinion,” when you missed something on the keyboard and said "your arguments aren’t both anecdotal, and they’re amateur opinion.

So, in this one reply he nails me as a pattern liar, distorter, and lazy.

That is his riposte to my “good faith” “apology.” Which we all know, any old ratty, nonsensical apology must immediately be accepted. How dare he?

My response was simply to offer him the opportunity to reconsider his stance. Thus far he has not. No doubt he didn’t want to waste his time further. Who is he not to allow me to waste his time?

Personally, I’m extremely offended, but not by this – by his nailing of me to the wall in all recent arguments. Can I whine about that for a minute?

What is worse though is that Ace makes me look stupid. Ace has an unreasoning and fanatical hatred of Scylla; he wears it like a badge that he is proud of.

He is proud to generalize and call me evil, and that I am worthy of hate.

I get the frequent messages from many of our more liberal posters, that they enjoy seeing my pompous gasbaggery deflated.

What Ace fails to understand, is that disliking me hurts my feelings. Telling me I shouldn’t run people over with my SUV – hateful; telling me I need to worry about the world and poor people – hateful. Criticising our excellent leader – hateful and maybe traitorous, I just don’t know…

In This pit thread, right after I asked for “Cite Needed, Fucknut,” he blows me off – hateful; and then he deliberately gets my panties in a knot with these obviously nonserious “cites” like:

The rest of the whining ninnies: Here’s another cite for ya:

Ashcroft.pdf

There are lots more examples of Ace’s “fanatical” hatred of me and my stupidity, though I’ve not yet found the time to distort them all. Anybody that’s argued with him, knows he has low tolerance for morons and that is so unfair to us.

My examples are just from Ace’s posts today. How can I spread evil and ignorance facing this kind of perspicacity and typing speed?

My opinion, which normally is dedicated to opining how great I am, and is generally worthless, is that Ace is deliberately hateful and ignorant and is immune to reason with me. He has, even if you haven’t ever seen it, nor can I find examples of, that all too common combination of absolute ignorance, stupidity, and arrogance, without a modicum of empathy or common sense, especially about me and my sweet stable of SUV’s.

Lay off me, Ace, without seeing my silly and asinine opinions go unchecked on a daily basis, my ego might shrink to mere continental proportions.

[SPOOFE]

So, Ace, you admit to having a schoolyard mentality that extends no further than “Nyah, nyah, nyah, I can’t HEAR you!”?

[Bryan_Ekers]

What’s a probium? Is that, like, an alien thing?

[elucidator]

Ace, we have a problem. Your post doesn’t make sense. The sense of narrator is lost, I become confused as to whether you are quoting Scylla, or have, for the sake of satiric juxtaposition, replaced his name with your own. Perhaps to make a “pot/kettle” analogy? The mind buggers. Boggles. Whatever.

I make no judgement as to the sincerity of your argument, only thats its structure is too much like one of those Russian boxes within boxes within. You have honored me with your approval on more than one occasion, will you permit me to exploit that opinion by suggesting if it confuses me, it is likely to confuse others?

I have no stand on the matter of cats, I regard them with the same imperial disinterest with which they regard me. I am much more comfortable with the slobbering syncophancy of dogs, at least partly because it is so well deserved, and is clear evidence of the clarity of canine judgement. Mark Twain, however, loved cats and that’s good enough for me.

Scylla has acknowledged certain failings of temperment, and has expended his most precious coin in a conciliatory gesture. If you are waiting for him to throw himself at your feet blubbering apologies, I assure you from long experience that you will grow old waiting. Very old. Your fossilized remains may be seen on public display centuries hence, with the explanation, “Still Waiting”.

If I may further exploit your good opinion of me, may I politely suggest that you, as well, have exceeded the usual bounds of your own cheerful temperment. Not without cause, mind you, but nonetheless… If I may make so bold as to suggest a conciliatory gesture, a minor expenditure of dignity? I trust this suggestion will not cost me your good will, and assure you that, in my experience, such a gesture will most likely be well taken, and even reciprocated in kind. Indeed, it has to some degree been advanced already, the gesture wanting is your own. My opinion of you makes me confident that you will look upon this with benign grace, and respond accordingly.

[aside to Bryan: Probium is the 115th element on the Periodic Table, and is usefully found in close proximity to analuminum.]

[Neurotik]

And my opinion of elucidator has increased tenfold.

Of course, that mostly has to do with his preference for dogs over cats, but still…

[Lynn_Bodoni]

Ace0Spades, we had a big discussion about not rewording another person’s post, and putting it in the quote section. We even had an announcement about it for quite a while. You’re in time out for at least two weeks. Write to me after the end of that period, and I might restore your posting privileges, after a review of your posting history.

Rockford, “pulling up a lawn chair” is not allowed. Your only purpose in posting that was to agitate a fight. Don’t do it again, and read the sticky “Pit Rules” thread in this forum.

Lynn
For the Straight Dope