Advice needed (Adult - TMI)

Ok, I dont even really know where to start here…its kind of a long story, I’ll try to make it as short as possible. This girl and I have been talking for awhile. We’ve hung out a few times and she’s came over here a couple times and last week i took her out to the movies and met her parents and everything. Well, the first time she came over we just watched movies and laid on my futon and made out…etc and thats pretty much what we did the next 3 or 4 times she came, but getting ‘a little further’ each time, still no sex of any kind though. Well, I’m really starting to like this girl and she has been pretty open about liking me alot since day 1. So last night we had sex…kinda. This is where the TMI part comes in…it ummmmm, well, it wouldnt fit. She said it hurt worse than the first time. So she went home fairly quickly after that and we were talking on the internet and i asked her if she was coming over again tomorrow night (tonight). She said she didnt know (although she had been planning on coming over friday and saturday night all week) So i was like…‘ok, why?’ And she said “well, i shouldnt have done that” and i was like what? and she said…get thiswell i didnt really want to but i thought it would make you happy” And now im totally wigging out, what the fuck is that shit?!! What the hell am i supposed to say to something like that? Should i stop talking to her? Should I even be as mad as i am? Am i over-reacting?

If it matters im 19 and shes 17 (and NO, this isnt illegal in my state)

Any advice would be very helpful, thank you. (More details available upon request)

Well, as long as you are asking for advice, here’s mine. Don’t have sex with someome until you are in a loving, committed relationship.

Just my advice.

Cisco, e-mail me if you want to talk (or message or ICQ or…)

You need to talk sex over before hand…every single time. She likes you enough to ‘sacrifice’ herself. However touching the sentiment, she’s probably right, she shouldn’t do that.

You are supposed to say some variation of “I’m sorry” (No, its not your fault, no she didn’t tell you, but think of sorry in this case of more commiserating and taking care of her than you being to blame.) Yes, you do have a right to be mad…she essentially lied to you about wanting to have sex with you. Which is bad for everyone envolved. If you want to stay involved with her, don’t do anything you are not comfortable with. Ask her to do the same. Tell her that you care enough about her that you never want her to do something that feels “wrong” just to make you happier. You are more satisfied with a comfortable, happy, open, caring date. (Trust me on this one…sex when both parties are very comfortable and happy with the idea is way better than when one is ‘giving themselves’ to the other. And you skip the whole recrimination part afterward.)

Whatever you do you need to talk what has happened and what will happen in the future over with her as honestly as you possibly can. ASAP. If you care about her at all, she needs to hear that from you.

TMI on its way

The not fitting issue. Been there, done that. Eventually gave up on the idea, however fun it sounded. Just did whatever was fun at the time, lots of experimentation, lots of openness. Its not particulary dignified to say thinsg like “Love, thats uncomfortable, lets do something different” “Ow! get your elbow off my hair!” or most recently “KNOCK THAT OFF!” but it does mean that you know what’s going on and that everybody is happy. Sex isn’t defined for everyone, do what makes you and her happy and be honest about it.

And, for the record, my first time rocked the free world…eventually. Just needed to relax about it.

It sounds like she has a decidedly unhealthy attitude toward sex and relationships – not to mention herself. Not unusual at seventeen, and she may very well grow out of it, but you probably don’t want to be with her before she grows out of it. Unless you really, really like her – in which case, you’ll have to tell her gently but firmly that she’ll hurt both of you if she does anything that’s not right for her. Repeat as necessary. It will probably take a long time before it sinks in. Good luck.

You’re getting great advice from the others, Cisco.

A female who has sex for reasons she can’t explain (or worse, simply to placate the guy) is a female you shouldn’t be having sex with. Count yourself lucky that she didn’t decide afterwards that it was date-rape.

Stay on friendly terms with her. Talk it out without an agenda of further sex (though with understanding and good communication it might happen again). While you’ve got a right to be angry and confused, DO NOT voice the anger; while she may understand your confusion, she’ll probably withdraw if you express your anger–or worse, counter your anger with her own.

The absolute WORST thing you could do at this point is to stop talking with her at all. To ignore her would likely alienate her and make her feel used, which could in turn induce her to accuse you of something far evil than clumsy sex.


Talking through this with her may well enrich you both. Even if the dating goes nowhere after this, you could end up with a good friend.

Respect the people with whom you have sex. Besides just being pragmatic, it’s the right thing to do.

BTW, did you use contraception?

That should read, “something far more evil.”

How pious.

Ok, my perspective’s a bit different - I’m gay and, thankfully, largely unburdened with with high drama and head games so many heterosexuals seems to seek out when it comes to sex. I mean, fags do drama, too, but the scale’s a bit different - and limited, for many, by the knowledge that since at heart we’re all a bunch of horny guys, sex per se just isn’t worth worrying about to that degree.

(I know, I’m sounding really snide here, but every time I hear the not-until-a-committed-relationship line I want to knock out a few bicuspids.)

In short, grownups get to have sex however often they want, with whomever they want, and assigning whatever psychological significance they want. Sex can be sport, it can be need, it can be love, it can be contempt, it can be anything else the parties want it to be. Of course you can get burned - you’re a bit singed here, I think. But grownups keep calamine lotion in their medicine cabinets and go on with their lives.

But back to the OP.

You’re freaking out because she seemed to want sex, but backed off after it didn’t feel comfortable, physically or psychologically. The fact that she was willing to try for your sake is actually kind of a nice thing, although I’m sure it feels back-handed right now. Of course, it would’ve been cooler if she’d admitted she wasn’t into it earlier on, but (a) she may not have realized it until too late, and (b) it’s a lot harder for a woman to say that than for a guy. (I’ve felt perfectly free to zip up and walk away when I’m not comfortable with a situation, but then at 6’2" 175 lb I’m usually taller and often heavier than the other party.) Instead, she’s realizing that it really wasn’t good, and now she needs you to be nice. The apology advice is dead on - she needs to hear that you’re not going to push her.

Now, about that “fitting” problem. That may well be related to her not being into it - if she’s physically tense, she may well not be able to open up. Don’t make her feel inadequate! If, several dates in the future, you are able to get to this stage again, put all of the attention on her - if she’s enjoying herself, she may find it easier to open up, literally and metaphorically. To go to the TMI level - get your tongue in gear and put it to good use. Ask her what feels good, and let her take control.

And where does a fag get off saying this? Dan Savage is my precedent (if you haven’t read him, please do - his column is on the Onion’s website,, and my own experience is my guide. Without getting into too many details (straight guys are kinda delicate about this, I’ve noticed), I’ll just say that gay guys have the ability to relate to both sides of your transaction.

Excuuuuuuuuuuse me?

Wow…this almost sounds like - no, it does sound like you are claiming there is a “Heterosexual Lifestyle” that is filled with “high drama and head games”. Oh Esprix? Essssssssssssprix? Come here, honey.

So you seem to be arguing that there is a Gay Lifestyle that is not concerned that much about love, committment, or taking care - just a “bunch of horny guys” having sex?

Re-play this sentence in your head. Do you think you should get so angry over this?

She’s going too fast, and is to unsure and confused about her motives for the sex to be all it can and should be. All credit to you for wanting to do the right and responsible thing, even though you’re feeling angry.

Go and see her. Even if she says she doesn’t want you to go round, do it anyway. Get some privacy and talk. Do some explaining. Keep it simple, sincere, honest and caring. You like her. Whatever you both want to do together, whenever you both want to do it, is fine. You both have some awkward feelings about the other night. That’s OK. It’s allowed. All that matters is how you go forwards from here. You can let a whole lot of negativity and strained mis-communication build up, or you can talk from the heart and do your share of listening and understanding.

Share your good feelings for her, and don’t be afraid to describe plenty of stuff from the heart (there won’t be any other guys around, so don’t worry about it being too cissy). There are a number of things she needs to hear right now. To hear and to believe. (1) That you don’t just want to see again for another sex tryout. (2) That you like her for a gazillion reasons that have nothing to do with sex. (3) That whatever ‘problems’ there were the other night don’t make any difference to how you feel about her, and this relationship. (4) That you want to listen to her side of it, and to understand her.

Forget about venting anger. Won’t do any good. Leave it somewhere else. Besides, what you’re angry about today is what you laugh about looking back a few months later.

Good luck.

Wow. That is some really good advice. Thank you all.

All due respect, but this is the worst piece of advice ever. She needs to know she can trust you and that you respect her boundaries. If she says she would rather not see you right now but you show up on her doorstep, she is probably not going to see it as some romantic gesture. Give her time. Continue to talk with her. Don’t let her slip through your fingers, but don’t grab on so tightly that she will gnaw off her arm to escape.
Good luck.

aw crap

that wasnt rob, and neither is this- it’s sapphire bullet


To talk strictly medically for a second :

The medical term for pain during sex (or uncomfortable sex) for a woman is dyspareunia. I’d list the differential diagnosis, but the Harrison’s Textbook of Internal Medicine Online site is down.

Just to put it out there, while in this case it may seem totally emotional, dyspareunia may also be caused by any number of physical problems (infection, etc.). While you of course should work out any relationship issues, dyspareunia (like erectile dysfunction) can be purely physical. It may be a source of confusion or embarrasement, and she may be looking for an excuse or a justification, where there is solely a physical issue to blame. Then again, I wasn’t there, and all issues should be worked out before intimacy.

Hey. Ambivalence like this is normal. This is the uncomfortable part where the two of you figure out whether you really want a sexual relationship and how soon. It will be better if the two of you don’t use this as a reason to start hating each other (yeah, that happens to too many of us). Whether you (eventually) get together or decide that you’re better as friends, it’ll be better than one of you being “the hated ex.”

((But if either of you gets mad and just shuts the other one out, more than the sex is probably over. Until you run into each other 8 years from now and say, “You know, we were dumb kids…”))

The thing may be to let your friendship be just that for a while. “Yeah, we tried going all the way, but it wasn’t the right time, or we weren’t the right match, or…” But as long as you’re willing to have a relationship that’s more than just sex partners, you can cut out the sex (maybe forever, maybe not) & have a pretty good friendship.

Or, you may just need to take it slow. She is just 17, after all. So, are you willing to wait?

Oh, I don’t know about that…

If she does have intimacy problems, you’re suggesting it’s best to just drop her? The best way I can think of her “growing out of it” is to be shown what “sex and relationships” are by someone who really cares about her and who she cares about.

:slight_smile: Oh, please, I’m not really that angry. I just find the assumption that sex is supposed to equal “love, commitment and taking care” tedious. My point is limited: sex is anything the folks involved want it to be, nothing more and nothing less. It has always seemed to me a great complication to assume that sex is a proxy for love - it can be, certainly, and it’s great when it is, but it can be equally (if differently) great when it isn’t.

My view is more typical of gay men, and perhaps of men as a whole. The long-time gay couples I know uniformly have some means for allowing outside sex - because under their understanding, sex isn’t a proxy for love. In these relationships, a blowjob in a sex club isn’t a threat - it’s just a little fun. A lunch date where no sex is involved at all - that’s the real threat. I care about where my boyfriend’s heart is - where his dick is, is almost an irrelevance.

In our culture, many people have a tough time with this concept. It’s not a one that I endorse for anyone - for a lot of folks it just wouldn’t work, since the fear of abandonment would far outweigh any pleasure to be obtained. I suspect it’s also linked with gender politics -especially the more drastic material consequences of breakups for women and children. (I’m not endorsing these inequalities, either! But we can’t wish them away.)

There are enormous arguments within the gay community about whether the attitude I’m describing is common or not, and without reliable studies on the subject (a phrase that will probably always be something of an oxymoron) it’s not that productive a dialogue. What I do suspect is that it’s more common among heterosexuals than has been examined. I’ll leave this with a question (maybe a posting to Great Debates?): Does an equation between sex and love really bring greater happiness, or greater misery?

OMG, I’m just like that girl!! I can’t even count how many times I’ve done it not because I want to but because I thought it would make the guy happy. It’s not an issue in my life now because I’m in a happy committed relationship, but I saw so much of myself in the OP. Don’t be mad at her!!! She really did want to make you happy! Maybe it was misguided, but she was just trying to do what she thought you’d like. If you really like her, tell her that sex isn’t necessary & you want to just hang out with her. As you get to know her, you might find out that she has a reason for being weird about sex…I got hurt when I was a kid, & it’s possible that she did too. Therapy has worked wonders for me, & maybe she would find it helpful as well.
If this all works out & you one day get back to where you want to have sex, try putting a pillow under her ass & getting on top of her. My BF is quite thick & I am very small, but I always find this to be comfortable.

TMI? That’s a new one. Well, anyone want to fill in handy with what that means since it seems not part of my dictionary…

Seems to me like she did something to make you happy. Celebrate that. Seems pretty nice to me.

TMI= Too Much Information ie, unpleasant and not entirely welcome details.
Mom: Well, dear, when I go down on your father…
aiii TMI!!!

I second what many of the others have said. I’ve been there, done that on the female side. Gone further than I wanted to, didn’t feel as good as good sex should, felt crappy about it afterwards. All because I got this warped idea that after a certain amount of petting, one HAD to go further. It was mean or cruel or prudish or cock-teasish not to. I was wrong, but there were few blue-balled guys who were eager to disabuse me of the notion.

It’s hard, sometimes, to set limits after you’ve gotten past a certain point, especially when the relationship seems to have been advancing over a period of days. Respect her right to feel regrets later. Appreciate her honesty now. And if you want this to continue, be willing to take it slow. Maybe even take a big step back and go less far the next few times. Slow is good, very good.

I can also say from experience that a sexual relationship that starts off on the wrong foot (too fast for the girl, despite her role in the pace) and then doesn’t correct itself (they don’t discuss it, they don’t take the step-back and slowdown that she needs) might always be problematic. I still SHUDDER to think of a few past disastrous relationships. But a patient, loving partner, who cares more about the relationship than the pace of the physical fun…that can lead to the most mind-blowing, consensual, fantastic sex of all, no matter how the first few times were.

Finally, my ex-boyfriend had a long-term relationship with a girl who had a severe case of anxiety about her virginity, getting pregnant, etc. They could NEVER have sex where he penetrated her vaginally. But boy howdy, this didn’t slow them down a bit. They did everything else, and then some. So… well, there’s hope even in the worst of cases. :slight_smile: