advice sought. Suspect Brother-in-Law a child molester/ into child porn

What type of political views does he have?

I dated a girl once whose father was just a plain old nut-job. He had the secret basement room but it wasn’t a porn hideout. It was a freaking armory/bomb shelter. He was convinced that the government was evil and any day now they were going to come and try to take his guns away. And he and his family were going to be ready for it. He was overly protective of his three daughters.
His wife, you could tell, was still with him and tolerated his nutty views but seemed somewhat embarassed by them. I think he resented her for it, gave up on her, and decided his kids would be his followers.

Just a lot of weird people out there.

You have no evidence and no real reason for suspicion. I think you just don’t like this guy. The fact that he is touchy-feely with his daughter is not a bad thing. The fact that his private room is priavte just means that it’s none of your business.

Perhaps the real problem here is you and your issues with intimacy and privacy?

First, I want to thank you all for your replies and suggestions. As you can imagine, this has been weighing on my wife and I for a while now.

I’ll do my best to answer as many questions as I can.

  1. My BIL is a professional, and makes a nice salary. But, he spends money like it’s water, and it’s always on himself. That’s his right, but he has THOUSANDS of DVD’s lining his 2500 sq. ft. basement. The basement looks like a cross between a high scale neighborhood gambling parlor and a children’s toy store. There are 12 TV’s in the house, they have EVERY video game technology (and associated games known to man) and anything else you can think of. You name it, they have it. He has movies that still have the plastic wrap on them.

  2. They have no friends that I know of. One strange man who knows my SIL shows up at family functions, but my BIL is an introverted, oddball sort of guy. I’ve only seen one friend of his, a college friend. They currently don’t speak, but no one knows why.

  3. No one in my wife’s family knows exactly what he does for a living, and he is very secretive about his life/work. If you ask him a casual question about work (or his social activities) and he doesn’t want to answer, he gives an odd look and walks away from you. It’s the weirdest behavior I’ve ever seen. Trust me, he’s not a spy and we aren’t talking about Mr. & Mrs. Smith assassin stuff either. At least I don’t think so.

  4. BIL’s father is, believe it or not, a private detective. So, this has forced my wife and I to steer clear of P.I.'s. We can’t trust anyone that might know this guy and tip him off. Professional courtesy and all that. As in “I have a client that wants me to do a background check on your son.” I can see this spiraling out of control in no time.

  5. The fortress of solitude - It had just been completed, and the door was open. There really wasn’t anything in there except his computer, a chair, a TV, and video games. This guy is in his 40’s, so you’d think the video games weren’t necessary. My wife and I wandered out there to see it and the door was ajar. We knocked and went in, just to see the completed work. We were in there less than 2 minutes, didn’t open a drawer, or turn on his computer. We walked out and he was standing 5 feet away from the door **staring ** at us, in a way that made both of us feel uncomfortable. She’s known him for 20 years. On the ride home, she asked if it felt as if he was burning a hole in us. I told her I felt the same way.

The door has three locks on it. No windows. And the home security system was hooked into this room. I find that to be a bit excessive for a private sanctuary to get away from the family. And the other thing is this guy **NEVER ** works at home. He never brings work home and he doesn’t work long weeks. He’s supposed to be an “executive”, but I’ve never known an “executive” to not work a weekend now and then. Or always. I asked for a business card once, but that just made him leave the room.

  1. My wife and her sister are not on speaking terms now. I have a feeling that there was something said about the kids. My wife used to take the kids to the mall or whatever, but as they grew older, they talked more and the access to the kids was gradually removed. Now, they don’t speak. What happened is my BIL put conditions on us giving birthday/christmas gifts to his kids. My wife objected. I won’t get into details here, but let’s just say a normal family would never thought of these conditions. My wife’s sister has never responded to my wife about these “conditions”, and hasn’t spoken to her since. It’s crazy.

  2. My FIL and MIL refer to my BIL in all discussions regarding this family unit. He makes all of the decisions, not their own daughter. It’s very weird. “He” said this. “He” said that. My wife has suspected for years that her sister is mentally ill, and from what I’ve seen, I can see her point. She cares nothing about her appearance and lives in a VERY affluent neighborhood. She won’t allow her girls cut their hair, but her son has his head shaved. When we were interacting with them, the kids begged us to get their hair cut, but that’s not my role. I wouldn’t want anyone else doing things to myh kids I disapproved of either, so we never did it. But we did buy the kids shoes that fit, because my SIL wouldn’t buy shoes for her own children. Bizzaro-land here, folks.

  3. My BIL and SIL are never in the same room during social events. Ever. I rarely see them speak. She seems very submissive to him, but I’ll admit, my exposure has been limited. An uncle on my wife’s side commented once that he thought it was the strangest marriage he had ever seen and figured there was some sort of “deal” worked out. She doesn’t work. He does. She has no control over the finances. She has to ask for money. And to give one classic example of this, she once complained that money was so limited that she was looking into a home equity loan so she could afford the children’s school lunches. (the kids are in private school). Huh? She’s either nuts, or he’s holding onto cash like there is no tomorrow. Or both. But I’ve never sensed even a whiff of affection between them, yet he has his daughter sit on his lap and he strokes her hair like she’s a pet. It really bothers me visually, but that doesn’t mean he has a hard-on while he’s doing it, or that there is anything abnormal about it.

One more thing about this oldest daughter. She receives special treatment apart from her siblings like I’ve never seen. She had three birthday parties one year. That’s right, three. One for the family, one for her friends, and then some sort of neighborhood horse-riding party in the front yard. The other kids get one. She is daddy’s little girl alright. However, this leads me to my final point, which is…

  1. Finally, odd behavior does not a child-molester make. We know that. So, it is a very sticky, uncomfortable thing we face. I don’t want to destroy this family on a hunch. And whoever stated that my gut is not something to listen to is right. A feeling is no reason to call the authorities. On the other hand, my wife has had the same feelings and we came to these on our own, only discovering each other’s thoughts after a long, uncomfortable conversation. And as much as I think the kids would be better off with other people, that’s not my call to make. And maybe they are happy in their dysfunctional world. After all, it’s all they know. But if they are being molested in any way, that is not acceptable.

Perhaps the best course of action is to see what we can do anonymously. If it is found out that we were the ones who made the call, there would be a storm. My wife is pushing to do something now, but I’ve put the brakes on because it’s easy to judge without concrete facts. Neither of us are child psychology experts, so I wouldn’t even attempt a conversation with these kids to draw something out of them. Specifically the oldest daughter, who we are most concerned about.

Thanks to those of you who gave me some insight into the “package” grabbing. I have to say, I was completely freaked out about it, and didn’t tell my wife for days. Doing that to an adult would never have occurred to me as a child, and it made me so uncomfortable, that I wondered why a child would do that. How could a child be comfortable touching *anyone’s * package, yet alone an adult’s?

Finally, for the record, my wife’s family (and this is from my wife) is one where if there *was * anything going on, no one would want to know it. The social stigma would be too much for her parents to bear, and they would rather keep their mouths shut than face a problem. Because if you don’t speak about it, it isn’t happening. Ignorance is bliss. This bothers me most of all. When kids are involved, someone has to look out for them and do the right thing. I’d rather not get involved, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to sit back and do nothing. But if I get involved and we’re wrong, I’ll be damned too. :frowning:

Apologies in advance for any typos.

There are alternative to regular PIs.

Online detectives/info gatherers. Might be worth a look.

Ugh. I have to reply to this as I didn’t see it on preview.

You are right on all counts as far as no real evidence. And I don’t know how normal the touchy-feely business is with a pre-teen. I’m not a child psychologist. But reason for suspicion? What exactly do I need? Pictures? I haven’t called anyone. I posted to a message board to get some intelligent feedback.

If the problem is me, I don’t see it. I don’t have particular problems with intimacy and privacy. And I’m not looking for a witch-hunt or to turn a family upside down. I’ve listed some observations, and asked for opinions. You’re entitled to yours, but to be honest, I have no idea where you are coming from.

kurahee, I for one would like to hear the rest of the story about the gift restrictions, if you don’t mind.

I was once married to a guy who would do the stare-through-you-and-walk-away thing when anyone asked questions he didn’t want to answer. I was always trying to make excuses for him doing that to people, when I didn’t understand it myself. Still don’t.

With all this new information, I’m starting to lean more toward you making a phone call about this family. To whom, I’m not sure. Hope that was helpful! :slight_smile:

Anything’s possible, but in concrete terms you don’t have anything approaching a true and adequate rationale to suspect him of child abuse other than the fact that he is physically affectionate with his 12 year daughter (and not even in an over the top way), has a private room and “gives you odd looks”. All the rest is conflated drama based on your feelings, and FWIW you and your wife seem *way * too invested in ferreting out the personal details of his finances and family life.

If kids were truly at risk that would be one thing, but given everything you have described that does not appear the case, and the main driver in this scenario appears to be your own fears and burning curiosity about his lifestyle. At this a point it appears you and your wife are setting the stage to justify making a move against him by covertly siccing the authorities on him, which he will likely trace back to you machinations without a great deal of difficulty. You are weaving a tapestry of potential abuse based on very little material.

I was thinking about this thread last night, and had a hard time getting to sleep.

I can’t think of one father I’ve known who’d let his 12-year-old daughter sit on his lap. I know many physically affectionate fathers, but the affection is a hug or a pat on the head or an arm around shoulders – stuff you’d do with a son as well as a daughter.

But the thing is, if this dad does this in front of people, that makes me think it’s innocent. Weird and inappropriate, but innocent. If you’re molesting your daughter, wouldn’t you keep your hands off her while people are watching?

That’s exactly what I was going to suggest. Make an appointment with the girl’s school counsellor, but only to discuss the girl’s behavior, not the father’s. Tell them that you’ve noticed some behavior that has sent some red flags up, including inappropriately touching you, but since they’re the “experts”, perhaps they could pay a little closer attention to her interactions at school and maybe talk to her teachers to see if they’ve noticed anything that seems unusual to them. They might even want to talk to her directly, to let her know she can safely talk to them about what’s going on with her, even if it’s nothing that isn’t normal.

I know it’s squicky to think about, but little girls at that age can be very sexual without having been molested. Puberty is a very strong thing! And even though it might seem like an odd coincidence given the father’s other weird behavior, there’s also the possibility that if she is exhibiting sexual behavior towards adult men, that she’s actually being molested by someone else, and the father, still wanting her to be daddy’s little girl, hasn’t yet acknowledged that she’s reached an age where letting her sit on his lap and stroking her hair should probably be curtailed.

Good luck – I hope everything either is, or turns out to be OK!

I don’t find it that strange at all. I would sit in my dads lap at 12 and I’m male. Quite a comfy lap too, the man is 6’3" and somewhere between 250-275, probably why all us kids did it.

As to the private room, I don’t find that strange at all really. I would LOVE to have a private room like that. One of things in my ‘when I win the lottery’ plan is, house with a private room for my alone time.

He sounds like a socially awkward man that spends all his time and money on his family and home. The wife sounds like she’s not all there and he’s not a social person, it’s no surpise that they keep their family close and control access to the kids.

Just my view on what you’ve described.

Don’t know where he works, won’t talk about it, plenty of disposable income-is it possible he’s dealing drugs?
As for the conditions for gift giving-may I ask what they are?

I think I’ll side with Astro on this one. Basically they are a weird family with a dad that is secretive about his weirdness. He probably knows he’s an oddball and defends himself by giving people cold stares and hides away his activities to avoid confrontation. Like you said he has no friends so he’s probably very protective and loving of his children even if it looks odd. A 12 year-old girl on her fathers lap while he strokes her hair is actually pretty innocent IMHO. It’s not like he’s coping a feel or giving her kisses on the mouth. Sure you can specualte what he does behind closed doors but it’s just speculation. And why, because he’s odd?
If they’re a weird bunch and you don’t like hanging around with them because they don’t care to justify their weird behavior to you, i’d just avoid them.

In situations like this, I ask myself… If all someone had was some quirky behavior to base planting a life-ruining accusation on me, how would I feel? There could be a million reasons for this guy’s weird behavior. None of the evidence you’ve given screams “porn traffiker/molester” to me. While I understand your concern, if I was the cop or the social worker, I think I’d probably want more than this before I’d launch an investigation.

Just as a heads up for everyone in this thread that is suggesting alerting the authorities “just in case” I would suggest you really need to be careful and think twice before pulling that trigger. Child molesters and abusers should burn in the lowest regions of hell and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but in real world terms suspicion does not always equal reality. I have been associated as an acquaintance with two families where the father in one family, and the mother in another, was accused of physical (not sexual) abuse. One was the result of nasty divorce action where the wife was seeking leverage for custody and the other was a battle between the wife and her sister in law.

In both cases the anonymous accusations were ultimately deemed to be without merit, but the investigation process was so invasive, traumatic and resented it completely shattered the familial bonds between the accused family and their relatives in one case, and caused the father to feel so burned he more or less drop out of his children’s lives for almost 10 years in the other.

So… if there’s real abuse drop the dime, but making a call based on scant concrete evidence can have devastating real world consequences even if the parties are innocent.

I just rolled my eyes so hard I think I sprained something. Guin, there are many other possible reasons, including government or other classified non-spy work, or shyness, or he thinks it’s boring, or he thinks talking about money is gauche…why go straight to drug dealing?

It was a just a guess? Gee, the OP is already talking about possible child porn and molesting. Somehow drug dealing is too far out there?

:rolleyes:

The “child porn” is already way too far out there, since there’s not even the slightest scrap or smidgen of evidence that the guy is into child porn. Frankly, the very fact that the OP went right from “private den” to “child porn” kind of makes me suspect her judgment in everything else. It’s such an enormous leap, and so is “we’re not sure how he makes his money” equalling “drug dealer”.

What exactly does this mean?

Yeah, how hard is it to say, “I work for the government”? Most people come up with something to say when they know people are regularly going to ask what they do.

I can’t imagine grabbing someone’s package at 12. I was in high school by then and this would have been the farthest thing from my mind.

On the flip side, it’s hard to tell anything even if the girl becomes sullen and has an overnight change in attitude, since that’s the typical teenage thing. Continuing to be nice with dad is weirder to me than becoming difficult.

The guy is odd, values his privacy, isn’t talkative, favors one child over the others, and he’s controlling.
Lock him up! That bastard!
OP, you’re drawing unfounded conclusions and over reacting. Sometimes people are simply different than you. For all we know, he’s on another message board right now complaining about how invasive and just downright odd his BIL is.