advice sought. Suspect Brother-in-Law a child molester/ into child porn

The BBQ Pit
61

Maybe he’s a day trader? That might explain the secrecy, need for a “fortress,” etc. He could be involved in a legit business that’s not really family friendly - owning a porn store, for instance. Perfectly legal but perhaps not something you’d proffer to neighbors at the BBQ. If he was a drug dealer I think he’d have some sophisticated alibi about what he does for a living. Also, as others have mentioned, there are governmental contracts that require a fair amount of secrecy.

This guy seems totally weird and a little creepy, but nothing suggests (to me) that he’s doing anything illegal. I actually think that it’s the ones who present a facade of normalcy that you need to keep an eye on.

This guy probably knows he appears weird, and decided he doesn’t really care what others think - I’d think he’d try hard to appear normal if he was indeed up to something bizarre. I would suspect child molesters want everyone to think they’re harmless…

62

I just want to disagree with this. When I was 12 I sat on Dad’s lap all the time. However my family is very physically affectionate in general. My little brothers also sat on Mom and Dad’s laps up until the point when they were so big they’d squish you and we had to tell them that they’re no longer lap puppies.

My guess at the situation from what’s been said here is that BIL is a controlling person with a shady source of income he doesn’t want anyone to know about. That could easily be the reason for restrictions on contact with the children once they’re old enough to talk about what goes on at home. As for the extra attention to the eldest daughter, unless there is some concrete sign that that it goes beyond lap-sitting and hair stroking, it sounds like simple favoritism. I don’t think it’s good parenting but plenty of people are quite blatant about which child is their favorite.

63

Very very very strange…

So your wife and her sister are currently not talking? Have these periods of not talking happened before, are they a common occurance? Can’t your wife call up her sister and try to make amends so she can be there for her and the kids?

They’ve been married 20 years and no one has even a clue what he does for a living? You wife never asked her sister what he does? I mean, does he leave for work every day wearing a suit and tie or what?

64

Sorry for the hijack, but… huh??? Having one’s own daughter on one’s lap is “weird and inappropriate”???

That’s the part of the OP I really wondered the most why it could lead someone to suspect child abuse.

By the way, concerning the financial aspect : you mentionned both that the house was full of costly toys and that the mother thought about taking a home equity loan. Couldn’t they wasting their money on toys and CDs be the reason?

Apart from that, what I found the most suspicious was the package-grabbing,Both kids doing it??? That I find weird and innapropriate. But apparently many people don’t find this that weird, so maybe I’m wrong.

I honestly don’t think that objectively you have a case, and in particular I found especially weird that you jumped from " bunker in the basement" to “child pornography”, like there wouldn’t be thousands of other explanations, from exagerated sense of privacy to drug traffic.

However, I’m not going to recommand that you don’t take any actions if you have suspicions. Even less so since I myself once reported a possible (and actually real) crime with even less evidences. But which action? Huh… I don’t know. The first thing I would do would probably be to call an association that is involved in Child Abuse (or possibly Child Protection Services), not to report (at leas at first) but to explain my suspicions, their cause, and seek their advice. But in any case, you’ll eventually have to make yourself a difficult decision.

On one hand, your suspicions aren’t well-founded, on the other hand I generally support the stance that when in doubt, one should act. I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes. :frowning: I suppose I’m going to reluctantly say "do something regardless lets you’d regret later not to have done it "

65

The OP doesn’t talk to his family either. And has a gut instinct that he is not his father’s son. And is considering consulting a private detective about it. But isn’t sure if he should raise a fuss.

I’m seeing one common thread in these stories of dysfunction.

66

Let’s go over your last post "3*. No one in my wife’s family knows exactly what he does for a living, and he is very secretive about his life/work. If you ask him a casual question about work (or his social activities) and he doesn’t want to answer, he gives an odd look and walks away from you. It’s the weirdest behavior I’ve ever seen. Trust me, he’s not a spy and we aren’t talking about Mr. & Mrs. Smith assassin stuff either. At least I don’t think so.

  1. BIL’s father is, believe it or not, a private detective.*"

So, BIL’s father is in a secretive line of business that requires a high level of customer security. And, you have no idea what BIl does, but it’s obviously lucrative- yet, you haven’t made the connection that it is extremely likely to be something along the lines of what his father does?
Let’s say he does work for a Government agency, or is a PI. And then you “Perhaps the best course of action is to see what we can do anonymously”. This anonymous accusation could cost him his job, and get his kids taken away from him. In other words- ruin his and his families life forever. Why- becuase he won’t tell you what he does? So? It’s none of your business. Have you even point blank asked him? Have you asked about his “fortress of solitude”?

It looks like you are about to ruin one of your families lifes forever over your unsupported paranoid imaginings.

Sure, go ahead and Google his name.

But why not sit down and talk with him? Try it.

67

The more I read about this, the more I’m beginning to side with the naysayers in this thread. Seems like you’re basing quite a lot of supposition on remarkably little solid evidence- but I’ll admit it’s difficult to communicate the “creepy vibe”.

68

I know that this thread is very serious, and I wish for the OP to attain the wisdom of Solomon to help him decide upon his actions.

But I just can’t help it that this image came to my mind while reading about all the package grabbing! :smiley:

69

Hmm, I feel so conflicted on this matter. On the one hand, I was sexually molested as a child (though not by a family member, thank God) so part of me screams “Nail the bastard! If there’s a chance that he might be violating his daughter, you owe it to her to do something!” But… then I think about how vague and circumstantial the evidence is and I falter.

There are a myriad of reasons as to why he has a private office. Yes, he could be looking at child pornography. He could also be doing countless other things. It’s his space. He has his right to privacy. Having his daughter sit on his lap is really squicky too. My lil’ sister is the same age and, according to her, that’s not normal and she would be very creeped out if our father did that to her while stroking her hair. However, some families are rather “touchy” and this is not an immediate sign of something more malignant. Touching does not equal “sex”.

Now… the crouch grabbing. That’s a bit worrying. I would NEVER have done something like that and, after consulting sis’ and her friends, it’s not an everyday occurrence in their demographic. Maybe it was just an innocent little prank. Maybe daddy like them to grab him there when they “wrestle.” Who can say?

And… if my uncle accused my father of molestation and he was wrong… I wouldn’t ever be able to forgive him. In fact, I would probably spit in his face if I ever saw him again (which wouldn’t be likely). So, be aware of the annomosity that could arise if you take action on unfounded claims. Just sayin’. All I can advise is that you do nothing and just try to be there for your niece. Having an adult who’s not immediet family to talk would have helped me a great deal.

70

Crotch-grabbing is normal, I repeat NORMAL, behavior for seven-year-olds. That’s dead center in the so-called “phallic stage”, when kids become aware of that part of their anatomy, it feels good, and they want to share the good feeling with everyone else. Naturally, children DO need to be told this is inappropriate behavior, but that’s the parent’s job, not yours. IT IS NOT A SIGN OF ABUSE.

Now, if the boy was 10 or 12, you’d have a better reason to be concerned. But so far, you don’t have a single shred of evidence that points to actual sexual abuse. In my opinion, you’ve been watching too much Dateline NBC.

71

If you had read the posts more carefully you’d have noticed that he said both of the children did it. The seven-year-old and the twelve-year-old.

72

People of all ages play video games these days. Is it not possible he wanted a space to game without distractions and without the kids/wife messing with his stuff? Maybe he likes to play mature themed games but not around the kids.

Do the other kids seem to resent this attention? Is it possible that the older girl is suffering at the hands of her mother (either neglectfully or intentionally) and the father is trying to compensate for that by giving her extra attention/affection?

73

Again, thank you all for your insights.

**Frank’s ** post link was a question I posted about **my ** family history. That has nothing to do with this. I know it’s easy to make judgements, as I am doing it myself, but please let’s not confuse the two issues.

And for the record, I have a very healthy relationship with my siblings. Whether or not my father is my biological father is a question I’ve had for a while. It doesn’t intersect with this family at all. Our families don’t even know each other and only met once at the wedding.

To those of you who have questioned what inappropriate behavior is and what that means… It’s a valid question. I don’t know. Someone mentioned that they shouldn’t have to worry if they have their child sitting on their lap and someone else judging if it’s appropriate. It’s a damn fine point. I wouldn’t want anyone judging my behavior, especially if this behavior is innocent. This is why I’ve not acted in any way other than this post.

I’ve been amazed at both the thoughtfulness of these replies and the harshness. You are all entitled to your opinions. However, I can state for the record that I have no interest in my BIL’s finances or how he makes his money (assuming he’s not peddling child porn). I am not jealous of his toys or his Fortress of Solitude. I am concerned about the kids. They are not my kids, and I realize that I have no parental rights or input. Nor would I want these two parents to have any access to any of my children. So fair enough.

And being odd does not make him a bad person. I agree with that. But what if my “vibe” is right? Haven’t any of you ever had a bad feeling about something or someone? Something that is just off? When my wife came to me with her feelings and they matched mine, I figured at least I wasn’t alone in feeling something just wasn’t right. But that doesn’t MAKE it so.

Just so we are clear. The oldest **daughter ** grabbed my package. And the oldest son. Both of them, same day, but not at the same time. Now I can maybe buy a 7 year old boy’s curiosity. But a girl? Grabbing a grown man’s package? That’s not registering for me.

As far as behavior goes, her grades have dipped. She is trying to dress more “grown up”. (cut off shirts, high riding shorts… she wants to show alot of skin. Maybe this is all normal behavior and part of growing up. I can concede that too. Being rebellious is not an indicator of sexual abuse, is it? What is an indicator?

But let’s understand something. This is not a normal family. He’s not working and spending money on his wife and kids. He spends money on himself. The wife and kids get what they can, but most of the relatives have provided the games, toys, and clothing for the children because they aren’t being provided for by dear old dad. Maybe he’s just smart and has figured out a way to get other people to pay for the cost of raising his kids. Hell, I don’t know. He won’t talk to anyone!

You want an example of crazy? How’s this… my SIL told her kids that my wife hated them because my wife didn’t want her sister to bring her *dog * to our wedding. So, if the dog wasn’t welcome, no one was welcome. Now, who tells their children that their Aunt hates them? And over this? Who invites dogs to a wedding? Sheesh. :dubious:

But enough of that. I could go on for pages.

For those of you that think I’m too eager to jump the gun, I understand. But also know that I’m not the one pushing for this and I’ve been holding my better half back because of all of the concerns/questions you have raised.

My BIL has no normal adult relationships that I can see. He spends most of his time alone. When I’ve seen him at a birthday party, or family gathering… that’s when I’ve seen the behavior with his daughter. I can’t describe it other than to say it’s just too *familiar * somehow. But, fair enough. That’s all I have.

Oh, and she grabbed my package. Other than that, we are dealing with feelings, hunches, and vibes. I don’t know if that is enough to call the authorities.

What if I was a teacher and she grabbed my package? Would that begin a chain of phone calls? Or does this happen all the time? I have no idea, but I was a kid once, and I knew a lot of kids, and I never saw ANYONE grab an adult male’s crotch.

As far as the “rules” of the gifts go, I’m not going to go into that. It’s just another strange behavior and doesn’t really matter when it comes to this issue. It’s just something we have to live with.

Thank you all for your thoughts and words. I appreciate all viewpoints, even the ones that paint me in a bad light. I’m not trying to hurt anyone. I normally don’t look at a child and think their parents are sexually abusing them. But it does happen. And it might be happening here. Then again, maybe his 3 locks-on-the-door to an inside-the-house room (did I mention it is also sound-proof?) is his place to wank away. And maybe when we walked in there, we missed the wastebasket full of kleenex.

Hell, I don’t know.

74

Spiff, I want to thank you for the laugh. I needed that.

For the record, neither child had to get on one knee. They just walked up and “grabbed the peach.”

75

From what I understand, they went through a period once before in early adulthood where they didn’t speak. But that was before my time. This session is a new one.

And my BIL isn’t a spy. I know the name of the company he works for. He leaves the house in a suit and tie. But that’s all I know. Maybe he has a boatload of stock options. Maybe he’s a quirky genius. Maybe he’s just weird.

You know, the more I think about this topic, most of you are right. I don’t know anything, really. What I’m starting to realize is that perhaps I don’t really want to know. That’s starting to bother me.

That’s fine for me, but what if… if I find out someday that something *was * going on, I couldn’t live with the guilt. I suspected. I should have done something. And I didn’t, because of all of the logical reasons provided in this thread. It makes my head hurt.

Children should have a chance to grow up on their own. But maybe I *am * just watching too much Dateline.

76

I have a friend who grows illegal plants in a room built in his garage with mega-security. He also has unexplainable income. Has your BIL’s electic bill increased?

As far as the package grabbing, my son did that when he was around six. He thought it was funny. I told him it wasn’t and that was that. A ten year old or older doing that is weird. And a female child doing that is uber weird.

77

My sense is that the OP is well aware of the “devastating real world consequences”, and is in fact looking for advice about potentially acquiring more concrete evidence. I don’t have any good suggestions myself, but what i heard was a great desire to avoid a witch hunt, combined with a desire to find out more information from an intensely secretive nuclear family.

(Note: i am not implying that secretive = guilty, merely saying that secretive makes finding “concrete evidence” extremely difficult, hence the OP’s request.)

78

I am! :slight_smile:

When my Step Daughter was a counselor at a Summer camp and complained of the way the girls dressed, I couldn’t help but remember when she began dressing that way.

79

I should have waited to post.
Two of my hobbies, carnivorous plants and aquaria also utilize expensive, powerful grow lamps.

80

Cool hobby! My son had some flytraps growing for a while. Your user name makes sense!:wink: