Ah.
Er, have you seen him around, lately?
“Phallic stage”? Aren’t you sort of couching your argument in Freudian psychoanalysis? Um, real psychologists don’t use that theory anymore, I don’t think. I can remember my childhood pretty distinctly, and I wouldn’t have even considered doing such a thing at that age. Much less at twelve, when you have enough of your social graces that you certainly know it’s completely inappropriate behavior.
Anyhow, I think people are ignoring the real danger signs here - the bizarre way the children are treated by mom. Not being allowed shoes that fit? Dad buys DVDs instead of lunch for his kids? Everything else just sounds odd - not within what I would call the realm of “normal” but not enough to build real suspicions from - but what’s apparent from this whole story is that Mom’s mental illness is having a serious impact on her kids. I find that extremely troubling; if it were me in the OP’s shoes, I would be wondering to myself whether to contact Child Protective Services on that basis alone.
The one time I had such a vibe, and investigated, it turned out the creep had an enormous library of child pornography on his computer. It was in the range of tens of thousands of images altogether, and all carefully categorized and sorted.
So maybe I’m biased by my own experience.
If you substitute “we are” for “I am” and “our” for “my,” this would be an axiom.
What was the basis of your “vibe”? I’m assuming you don’t think you have psychic powers, so what signs did you pick up on that led you to believe the guy had kiddie porn?
I can’t comment on the mother part because I haven’t been reading about the mother, frankly. There is so much drama based on so little evidence in so many paragraphs of text that I’ve just focused on the parts relevant to the central accusations.
Hmmm…
Apparantly I left the phrase “Phallic stage” in there by accident.
Or did I? :dubious:
So far, all I see is a bit of wierd and no red flags. (Not even little yellow ones. Not even little tiny ones with “maybe?” on them.) For instance:
You did say that she was 12, right? Yeah, that’s normal.
Lemme see if I can summarize:
1.) BIL has an office he doesn’t want anyone going into.
2.) BIL does [something] for work, but is very secretive about it.
3.) BIL does not seem very attracted to SIL.
4.) SIL is herself a strange character, out of touch with reality, and does not take care of her appearences.
5.) BIL seems to play favorites with EN.
6.) Eldest Niece (EN) resembles mother at an earlier age.
7.) You have observed the kids engaging in activities that raise flags to you, but not necessarily to everyone else.
To me, 2 explains 1, 4 explains 3, and 6 explains 5. The crotch-grabbing is definetely odd for a 12yo girl, but does not say “danger, child has been molested” to me.
From what I can read, if I were in your place, I would not start the inquisition. You do not have any unexplainable indicators that there is a pederest in the house. BIL may be a controlling, antisocial character, but that does not equal child porn &/or molestation.
The only thing I can suggest is that you (& your wife) make yourself available to the family. Be a good uncle/aunt combo. Invite them over to your place, invite them our for events (mini-golf, bowling, shopping trips, etc.) Organize a guys day and a girls day. (Like you guys go to a sports game while the girls go get their hair done or something.) If there is anything that is a better indicator, you will see it. Otherwise, you will get to know them better and simply understand the personal eccentricities that you see.
Actually, I didn’t know what the guy had. He was a friend of a friend; my friend subletted an apartment with Sicko Steve (name changed to protect the icky) and another friend of hers one summer. I was only somewhat acquainted with him at the time, but I told her when she was talking about moving in with him that I thought it was a really bad idea because something about him just seemed seriously, well, off. Nothing more than that - no real evidence whatsoever.
Anyway, one Friday I was at her place, and we were both really drunk, and Sicko Steve was out, so I recommended we see what was on his computer, betting that given his creepiness he probably had some kind of exceptionally perverse (and therefore inherently funny) pornography. So I looked. Well, turns out there’s such a thing as too perverse to be funny.
We’ve talked about people who are just “creepy” before on the SDMB; I was in the distinct minority that said that I think that finding someone creepy is a sign that there’s something wrong with them. I’m not claiming to have any kind of magic psycho-dar, and I don’t think anyone does. In fact, I’m very disinclined to trust such instincts too far, since it’s hard to objectively study such things and the only opportunity I ever had to test that instinct could easily have been a coincidence. But I sort of think that the reaction someone provokes in you is likely to be meaningful, because I think that people - as social animals - do have basic wiring to help us in our interactions with others.
I’m by no means suggesting that a person should call the cops whenever someone gives them the creeps. But I do think it’s worth paying some extra attention, and it would be hard to convince me “creepy vibes” that people give us come from a vacuum.
I don’t mean to be offensive, but I wonder if kurahee’s tendency to see this situation as child molestation, specifically, is that it takes less evidence to engage a societal endorsement for butting in than do the many other possible offenses or even simple eccentricities that might explain his BIL. I tend to prefer the investigate first, accuse later approach to discerning the truth. Kurahee, if you have no evidence of any wrong-doing, but you just hafta hafta know what’s going on, just buy a background report on intelius or some other info. site and get what goods you can on the guy. It’s quite a bit ruder than simply Googling someone, but it’s more informative and he never has to know. Maybe you can piece together either the truth or a more factually embroidered fantasy about what he’s up to.
Tabby
That you think identically about two separate issues shows a pattern in the way you think. It shows that you make wild-ass-guesses, and then try to figure out how to prove them.
I’d say more, but I have to go tear the shrink-wrap off the DVDs I haven’t watched yet, just in case.
I had a very similar experience, only the sicko was a male colleague, and the porn was in the form of magazines featuring nude prepubescent males. I was sick to my stomach over the whole thing, plus I felt guilty because I looked for evidence; maybe I should have minded my own business.
Later, I had to figure out how to deal with my knowledge. For example, the sicko offered to watch a friend’s 9 year old son. I couldn’t let her take him up on his generous offer, but what exactly could I tell her?
Girls are different than boys. It’s harder for me to explain, since I’ve never been a girl myself, but at 12 years old she must be entering puberty, and with that comes awareness of her sexuality, dressing sexier, that sort of thing. You’re a grown man, so yeah, she’s going to have some degree of attraction to you, and she deals with it by being flirty. That’s all I’m reading in this…flirting.
Indicators of sexual abuse can take many forms, such as an aversion to being touched, extreme personality changes, or many VERY overt sexual gestures. Stuff like rebellion & grades dropping, that’s just adolescence (which is traumatic in itself, but can’t be avoided, naturally.)
Please, please don’t call CPS. Thanks to The Mondale Act of 1974, Child Protective Services are now financially motivated to remove children from the home – yes, they actually get PAID up to $10,000 for every child removed from their parents. And, they have the authority to remove children based on the smallest allegations, and the parents have to “prove” they are innocent, a process that takes months or years, and costs lots of money. Meanwhile, the kids wind up in foster homes (or, if they’re very lucky, with other relatives) where they are actually at more risk of abuse than if they stayed at home, statistically speaking. CPS will destroy this family…you never want to get them involved, unless the family is already destroyed.
Exactly! It feels a bit icky to find something like that out and realize that you discovered because you completely violated someone’s privacy on a whim and you wouldn’t have to deal with the knowledge had you had had the common decency to keep your hands to yourself.
That’s why I said “so-called”. 
(Is Freudian analysis out of fashion now? It’s been a long time since Psych 101…) All I can say is, I’ve been around boys that age, including my younger brothers, and all of them go through that stage. You probably don’t remember, because it happened so long ago that you just don’t remember doing it.
Yeah, that part is bothersome. I don’t think it merits an intervention, though. What it really boils down to, is how the kids are behaving, how their family life is affecting them. And they sound pretty darn normal to me.
Eek! :eek: Well…as you said in a later post, the “vibe” was real, but finding out it was something really SQUICK was a total surprise. (Shame on you, by the way, for violating his privacy and browsing his computer w/o permission…though I suppose, in this case, it was justified. You got lucky!)
BTW, how did you handle that situation? Did you call the police?
Particularly in the context of the OP, with the other strange behavior described and especially the family closing itself off from others, yeah, I think it’s weird and inappropriate. She’s 12, not 7 or 8.
We have teenage granddaughters, and we’re a hugging and kissing family, but I don’t think the girls would be comfortable sitting on a grandpa’s or uncle’s lap – maybe on a knee, but not on a lap.
But I’m glad to hear that other posters have done this, as part of a natural, loving relationship. I don’t having a problem admitting that my feelings about this might be unreasonable.
Well I HAVE been a twelve-year-old girl and this is absolute bullshit. Most twelve years old yeah, will feel more flirty, but they’re going to be squicked out at the idea of directing it towards their MALE RELATIVES, especially older male relatives.
:rolleyes:
Ok, we need to stop doing this. Too many people are saying, “I never did that, so something must be wrong!” You guys need to understand, every person is different, and what’s inappropriate for YOUR family might be just peachy for another.
A big part of the problem, is that we Americans live in a fear-mongering culture, especially the media and the government that’s always telling us to be afraid, whether it’s terrorism, Unidentified Black Males, or the creepy pedophile next door. This type of culture causes all of us to jump at shadows, make up demons that don’t exist. We just need to STOP and look at the big picture, for once!
If you hadn’t said that this guy has a son, I would have thought you were talking about a man I used to work with. He was married to a woman who obviously had severe depression or some sort of mental illness (possibly due to his presence in her life?). He controlled all aspects of their lives. They had two girls, the oldest just starting high school. He dressed them (yes, he bought all of their clothes), in “little girl” outfits - knee high socks, Mary Jane shoes, little cardigan sweaters. He also had a little fortress room that he told his workmates about, but he also told us why he used it - he was having an affair with someone he met online. He was a really bizarre guy for a lot of reasons, but he wasn’t criminal (as far as I could tell- who really knows?).
I don’t know. You’re situation is tough. If I were you, I think I’d just try to stay as close as possible to the family, keep observing, and make myself available to the kids if they need someone to talk to.
Frank,
You are an idiot.
I don’t think my personal situation is a “wild ass guess”. It’s an educated one. One I’ve discussed with my brothers. And quite honestly, if I asked the question in my other OP without going into details, the point would be moot. But to make a statement like you made is disappointing, especially since you carry a moderator tag. Others have offered constructive critisims/pitfalls/danger points and suggestions. All life/family situations aren’t Father Knows Best. If you had a great, normal childhood, good for you. But if you were in my shoes, you might not be so flippant.
As far as my BIL goes, my wife has confided in me that she suspected something weird going on well before I came into the picture. So, I’m not pushing the issue. When we compared notes after the stare at the “Fortress of Solitude”, however, we found we both were feeling the same sort of creepiness with this guy. She’s known him for over 20 years. That isn’t me telling her BIL is creepy with magic mental vibes.
And if I knew this crap was going to be an issue, I may not have married her. Who knows? But we deal with what we have to. I hope for your sake you never have to deal with anything like this. From the tones of your replies, you don’t sound mature enough to handle it.
This was a very sobering post. Thank you KGS. I think it is very important to not pick up the phone on a whim. My wife is very upset about this because it is her niece and she feels that something is going on. But I’m not interested in ripping a family apart on a hunch.
Jeez, this sucks. Maybe a divorce would solve my problem. 
Sorry. This must have been just another one of my “wild ass guesses”. 
And I didn’t even hit the “report this post” button.