Quick poll:
How many of us are mental health care professionals, social workers or the like?
I am not a social worker.
I did not even sleep in a Holiday Inn last night. 
I have two lap stories.
-When I was 16 or so my cousin (she was like 18) sat on my lap. I have no idea why.
-I do IT work for a school district and was in a special class today putzing around with one of the computers. I wasn’t sitting squarely infront of the computer (ya know back from the computer a bit) because I was chatting with the teacher. Then suddenly one of the 10 year old special ED girls jumped onto my lap like I was Santa Claus. I calmly asked the teacher to get her off my lap because A) she shouldn’t be on my lap and B) had someone else walked into the room while she was on my lap I would likely be in the same mess as the fool in the OP.
So, I don’t know… maybe sitting on laps something some girls do like to do without any sexual overtone meant. Stroking hair is pretty weird though.
Before I begin picking apart evidence, I want to say that I feel the harsh response a lot of posters have provided is unnecessary to say the least.
kurahee has expressed concern over something that didn’t jive with his own experience and sense of appropriateness.
He didn’t alert authorities based on this hunch and in fact, he came to a (relatively) anonymous message board to look ask for advice before doing anything. He seems relatively distraught about the situation as a whole and holy cow, they really do sound like a bag of mixed nuts.
I can’t even say that the children seem fine because he really hasn’t talked much about the children’s mannerisms. Do they laugh alot? Are they easily angered? Etc.
I don’t know that the lap sitting really needed to be mentioned, as I don’t think it gives much credibility to either side of the argument. My dad and I have always been affectionate and I can promise you that he’s never abused me. I don’t recall exactly when I stopped sitting on his lap (And when I say lap, I generally mean knees), but I’m 27 and he still holds his hands over both sides of my face and says, “SHAN MY LITTLE ANGEL!” SMOOOCH because he comes from a crazy Italian/Greek family that just… acts that way. He always hugs and kisses my husband on the cheek when he sees him (We live a state away and don’t see eachother often). I think it freaked my husband out a little at first, but it really is harmless and I would’ve been destroyed if someone had reported my father as a sexual predator based on his interaction with me.
ON THE OTHER HAND! I was abused by my ex-stepfather for a number of years no one suspected a thing. In fact, the first girlfriend that I confided this to told her therapist who reported my stepdad to the authorities. The authorities called my mom to talk to her about the allegations, but since my friend was in therapy for being a bit of a loon and I vehemently denied everything and said she was a crazy bitch (Eeps, I still feel bad about my reaction but I was 13 or so and couldn’t bear to break my moms heart). They never even made a surprise stop to my house. They never yanked me out of the home or interrogated me about it. Nothing. Now I don’t know if that’s because of my state laws or maybe because it was almost 15 years ago and the law was much different back then, but it did NOTHING for me except make me feel worse about the situation than I already did.
If you and your wife aren’t on good terms with SIL and her husband, maybe someone else in her family can help? Barring that, I’d keep your eyes open for the GIRL’S behavior and report anything suspicious in HER behavior to her school counselor. If they ask why you felt the need to report, I’d have no qualms stating very matter-of-factly that her mom has issues, her dad is a bit odd and difficult to talk to and you just wanted to look out of the best interest of the child.
Rough situation, though. I feel for both you and your wife.
I recognize this, and I said in my last post that my feelings might be unreasonable. But I’ve felt this way since I was young, and back then the only people we were taught to fear was Communists.
Let’s think about this from the niece’s point of view, rather than the POV of innocent fathers, uncles, grandpas, etc. who don’t understand that some types of physical contact might make their pubescent female relatives feel uncomfortable and confused.
And you are warned.
Personal insults are not allowed on this message board except in the BBQ Pit.
Do not do this again, to anyone, moderator or not, outside of the Pit. Consider yourself lucky I’m not banning you right now.
kurahee, you are absolutely correct that something is very wrong in that house. Good on you for being concerned for the welfare of your neice.
I am sorry you have received such a negative response from some people here. I am very disappointed in that. Sometimes you just have a gut feeling something is wrong and it’s hard to get the point across to strangers on a message board. But trust me, your point is well made to me and to others here.
I hope the negative responses here don’t push you away. I hope you stay and even become a member.
Regardless of whether there is actual child molestation going on, there is child abuse going on in that household. You story shocked and saddens me. I am glad the kids have someone in their lives who care about them.
Oh, I **do ** consider myself lucky.
Please.
But it’s ok for a moderator to make thinly veiled accusations about a poster? Great message board! I see a common thread too, Frank. It’s nice that you can be insulting and just say “I’m a poster”. But when I called you on it, you decide to put your moderator hat on and warn me.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings. Tell you what. If I decide to join this board, I’ll be happy to meet you in the Pit. In the meantime, feel free to give advice on the subject at hand. If you can’t give any, I’d kindly ask you to stay out of the thread. That’s not too tough, is it?
Didn’t you read my following post? I **said ** I was sorry.
However, I am concerned about something serious, and you’ve added nothing to the discussion. I didn’t ask for this situation. It just is. And I’m trying to figure out what to do. I’m horrified if I’m right. If I’m wrong, this will cause a lot of problems. People have been kind enough to share their insights.
The easiest thing to do is to bury my head in the sand and ignore it. But then I read posts like this
and it breaks my heart.
Banning me because I called you a name isn’t going to help my niece. I’m conflicted enough. I’ll get over it if you can’t wait for my trial membership to run out. But I promise not to call you anything other than **Frank ** from now on. Unless, of course, I decide to go to the pit.
And to the rest of you, if the almighty powers that be **Frank ** ban me, please continue to post. I have learned a lot from you all on both sides of the issue. This is not a decision that I can or will make lightly.
Being wrong would torture me as much as being right would. I can only pray I’m wrong.
Thank you for the kind words. I’m only her uncle. And I married into the family, so it’s only semantics. But I feel so badly for these kids, and I don’t know if there is anything I can do. My wife, who has known these kids her whole life is very upset, but also knows that if we are wrong, this could wreck people’s lives. So the conflict is strong.
We are here for the kids, but they don’t know it. At the end of the day, I guess we can wait until the oldest turns 18. But until then, her parents can keep us away from them. That’s their right.
kurahee: You won’t get banned because of one warning. That’s not a concern. There is a rule against giving out personal insults outside the pit. In my humblest opinion, I’m not sure what Frank said to you to to elicit that comment was entirely appropriate, but the rule against personal insults is clear. Moderators are posters, and they’re not expected to act only in their official capacity.
Anyhow, it’s not worth starting drama over. Warnings happen. I’ve racked up a number of them, myself, and they still haven’t kicked me out.
Fair enough. Thanks for the note. No drama here. Well, no major drama.
Not to derail the thread, but Frank suggested I take “wild ass guesses” about things and try to prove them. This is because I asked in GQ if I could get a paternity test from my father (long story, it’s in the link). He linked these two threads, and it irked me a bit. One has nothing to do with the other.
Just curious… is one permitted to use the “Putz” smilie anywhere outside the pit?
I believe not, though I can only remember specific references to use of it in Great Debates.
My experience has been that people get away with using rolleyes just about everywhere, though.
What “thinly veiled” accusations have I made about you? I linked to a thread which followed the same pattern this one has.
When did I say “I’m a poster” in this thread"? I’ll admit, I thought about following up my warning with just such a post.
You are welcome to Pit me even as a guest. As it is, I have given advice on the subject at hand. I have made my opinion clear that you are not a trustworthy source. If I am wrong, well, you have plenty of good advice from other posters, and I would suggest that you follow it.
P.S. Excalibre is correct. The use of the putz smiley is also not allowed outside the Pit. Rolleyes are.
At this point I’ll add: if you have any further comments about my decision to warn you, take it to the Pit (the appropriate place for discussion of moderator actions).
You are not worthy of further comments.
I don’t know about anybody else, but I now wish I had the hour back that I put into thinking about the OP’s “dilemma”. :rolleyes:
That’s two of us now.
Tabby
I believe Frank is justified in linking the two threads. In one, you observe that you don’t resemble your father as strongly as your brothers, that your mentally-ill mother was distant to you and that no one in your family speaks to you now and conclude that your mother had an affair, possibly with one of her patients at the mental health facility she worked for, and you are a product of that affair.
In the other, you observe that your brother-in-law is a private and secretive man who favors his eldest daughter and is affectionate towards her, and conclude that he is a child molestor and/or kiddie porn consumer/manufacturer.
These are very big conclusions to reach based only on gut feelings, flimsy evidence and speculation. It doesn’t mean you are automatically wrong, but it does show that you sometimes connect the dots differently to other people. When the other posters on this board read both threads, it might give more insight into your character and help them weigh the facts you present accordingly. The same story presented by two different people can produce wildly different conclusions from the same audience just by the manner in which it is told.
I would like to suggest that much of the behaviour the BIL presents around you could be simply explained away if he doesn’t like you. I’m not saying you’ve given him a reason to dislike you or anything like that, but I wonder if the weird vibes you’re getting from him are simply because he’s taken an unreasonable and strong dislike to you personally, and that is why he doesn’t like to answer your questions or let his children hang around you, and so on. Do you think your wife’s relationship with her sister and BIL have changed since you you became a part of their lives? Do you think that his behaviour is more understandable if there’s a common, everyday clash of personalities to blame? Upon reflection, does it seem like his behaviour is not too far removed from that of a man trying to conceal his dislike of someone he has to try to get along with? Is there a chance that BIL is jealous of you, your lifestyle, your relationship or something you have in your life that has made him feel bitter toward you?
Why? Because I don’t want to get into an argument with **Frank ** the moderator?
If it can keep this thread on track, I’ll be happy to go to the Pit. I just don’t see the point in wasting my time.
**Frank ** the moderator says
Based on what? That I question who my father is? **Frank ** doesn’t know me. And do you honestly think I’d post something like this if it wasn’t an issue? This is my wife’s family, not mine. So no matter what **Frank ** the moderator has “figured” out about me, this particular item is not in my direct family.
**Frank’s ** quote also sounds like an insult to me. But perhaps **Frank ** isn’t a trustworthy (That appears to be ok language in a thread outside of the pit)moderator. Perhaps **Frank ** has issues of his own. Perhaps **Frank ** is my brother-in-law. Or my dad!
I’ll be happy to defend myself in the pit. But don’t doubt the sincerity of this inquiry. If you do, please stop posting in it. That works for me. :rolleyes:
Why? Because I don’t want to get into an argument with **Frank ** the moderator?
If it can keep this thread on track, I’ll be happy to go to the Pit. I just don’t see the point in wasting my time.
**Frank ** the moderator says
Based on what? That I question who my father is? **Frank ** doesn’t know me. And do you honestly think I’d post something like this if it wasn’t an issue? This is my wife’s family, not mine. So no matter what **Frank ** the moderator has “figured” out about me, this particular item is not in my direct family.
**Frank’s ** quote also sounds like an insult to me. But perhaps **Frank ** isn’t a trustworthy (That appears to be ok language in a thread outside of the pit)moderator. Perhaps **Frank ** has issues of his own. Perhaps **Frank ** is my brother-in-law. Or my dad!
I’ll be happy to defend myself in the pit. But don’t doubt the sincerity of this inquiry. If you do, please stop posting in it. That works for me. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=AuntiePam]
I can’t think of one father I’ve known who’d let his 12-year-old daughter sit on his lap. I know many physically affectionate fathers, but the affection is a hug or a pat on the head or an arm around shoulders – stuff you’d do with a son as well as a daughter.[\QUOTE]
My father used to put me on his lap, until I was at least 12, and possibly later. He usually did this when he had been drinking. Sometimes he got handsy. I hated it, but in my family, we were not permitted to say ‘no’. That got us in big damn trouble. Back talk and ‘no’ got us in trouble. Dad liked his obedient children.
There was no overt/consistent molestation going on (unless I’ve blanked it out), but I learned to simply stay out of the house when dad was drinking. If I wasn’t home, I couldn’t be made the object of his affections. Luckily, we lived in the country and I could run loose in the woods for hours a day.
My brothers resented me because I got all the attention. I have never been able to say, “If only you knew.” I can’t prove anything. It was too long ago. And all that would have to be said is, “you misunderstood, that wasn’t what I meant at all.” But yeah. I got sat on dad’s lap loooong past when it was comfortable for me. As for the OP’s niece? I don’t know. I just can’t. I see things through my own colored filters, and they’re suspicious.
I must say, OP, I would put less weight on a little boy grabbing your “package” than on a 12 year old girl doing that same thing. And somebody said to make videos, a studio would be required. Well heck, isn’t 1/3 of a 3-car garage studio enough? I’ve seen porn videos filmed in rooms no larger. What do they need, a bed? You could stick that into a third of a garage, easy.
I can think of other possibilities that don’t require a real studio setup. Think of what some child porn perps do with a plain old internet video camera.
I think, if you were to hire a private investigator, there would be some variety of client privilege clause - they would be required by law (or contract) to keep the details of the investigation private, not to be discussed with colleagues or anybody else, unless subpoenaed by a court of law. So the fear that the FIL might find out about it, may not have any weight.