Advice urgently needed! (girl issue)

In My Humble Opinion
81

I’m trying to help here, really. Now, if I wanted to draw up some conversation; an example of how not to get the girl, the above would be it.

And this:" So then it’s Saturday. She says she might be going out with her two friends, but they don’t have any definite plans yet. I inform her that my friend Paul’s fraternity is having a party and they can feel free to come over if they can’t find anything else to do."

So you’re the amusement of last resort?

You show no confidence. You make it plain that you’re available for whatever purpose she wants, at whatever time she wants. You make it plain that if your presence is an inconvenience to her, you’ll drift away for a while. This won’t work out for you. Girls like confidence, not wishy-washy BS. So you’re not confident? Then fake it!

You are going to have to take some initiative here. You are going to have to put some pressure her. Ask her out and make it plain that it’s a date, not just “hanging out”. Don’t say, “Lets go out sometime, somewhere.” Approach it like this: " I want to take you out to dinner Saturday night. I’ll pick you up at Seven O’clock. After dinner we’ll go to the [pool room/art show/dance/ submarine races/what the hell ever]. No way, no how, let the word FRIEND get into this conversation.

Don’t do this online. Next time you are talking online, type in that you’re tired of the computer and you’ll be over to see her in a few minutes. If she says she’s depressed again, tell her she needs some company, and you’re just the man for the job. Tell her you’ll be right there and sign off. Then go!
Ask her out face-to-face. If she blows you off, you’ll at least have some closure on the issue and you’ll know to move on.

Who am I to be giving all this advice? Nobody special, but I’ve never had a problem getting a girl to go out with me. Keeping one might be a different matter, but that’s not the issue here. There have been a number of girlfriends in my life and two wives, so I’ve got some t-shirts. :wink:

82

Perhaps not.

83

John Carter, is it too late for me to salvage this situation? Is it possible for me to kind of brush off my current attitude and recoup my confidence with this girl in particular?

It’s just weird, I’ve been doing this kind of stuff forever because I assumed it was polite to be considerate of other people. And now I learn that my consideration was actually just me being a pussy. I wish I could have learned this lesson with a girl other than this one.

How nice it would be to be one of the guys where all I would have to do is just happen to be in the same room and have a girl take a liking to me with little or no effort on my part. I don’t have enough going for me physically to make girls take notice like that.

84

John Carter is right. If you want to make plans with her then make them. Instead of saying" my friend is having a party, if you guys have nothing better to do why don’t you guys go?" try saying, “my friend is having a party, do you want to come?” Same meaning, but she either says yes or no.

Reading this thread, I think that she’s not interested. If she were, she would drop what she is doing and hang out with you. The best thing you can do is move on. Let her message you, if she does, and proposes something, go or don’t go, depending on how you feel. There are other women out there. There is no such thing as “the one”, just people with whom we are compatible.

This happens for an extrememly small group of men, probably less then 2% of men, where they don’t have to make a move. However, getting a date doesn’t require a lot of work either, don’t overintellectualize it either. What the girls take notice of is confidence. Don’t wuss out. If you meet a girl at a party, talk to her, if you are attracted, ask her out to dinner. If she says no, don’t be crushed. It isn’t a personal failing on your part, it happens. Every guy gets shot down at some point or another.

85

I second this. There are very few guys who are so blindingly attractive that I’d (as a girl) go up to them and chat them up. Most of us are as shy and as afraid of rejection as you are!

The more times you try asking someone out, the more likely someone(s) is/are to say yes and the more comfortable you’ll feel doing it. Practice makes perfect.

Don’t pin all your hopes on one girl. As others have said, there are lotsa fish in the sea. Yeah, this one may seem compatible, but there’re others out there who will too.

Spend some time focusing on doing things that make you feel better about yourself. Confidence IS sexy!

Good luck. There’re a lotta Dopers here who want to see you end up happy.

86

Depends on what you mean by “salvage”. It’s not too late to make this come out however it’s going to come out. There’s always a chance she just doesn’t want you for a BF. If that’s the case, then “salvage” would be to find that out. If it turns out that the two of you are compatible, it’s certainly not too late

Considerate is not letting/requiring the girl to make all the decisions and moves, thus making her assume all the risk of rejection.
Here’s an example of considerate: If she really likes Mexican food and you don’t care for it, then considerate is taking her to a Mexican restaurant, finding something you can eat on the menu, and keeping a good attitude through your burritos. See the difference?

As others have pointed out, being a physical knockout isn’t required. Just be clean and brush your teeth before you go to see her. :wink:

You really, really, need to spend more time with her person to person, and stop the multi-hour online discussions! Until you two have been together more, neither one of you can know if a relationship is even desirable. I can’t stress this enough. You need more time TOGETHER!
When you’re with her, you can see her facial expressions, watch body language, and learn what it takes to make her laugh. Girls like to laugh. Go see her and make her laugh, and nix-nix on discussing your or her relationships with other people…

Again, good luck.

87

No, it is not too late, not even with this girl. You haven’t been being a pussy, you’ve just not been the type of person that gets the girl. You probably developed this attitude because you watched girl after girl complain about how inflexible, or not understnading, etc, her boyfriend was. So you decide to go with the low-pressure approach. Bad idea.

Now, ramping up the pressure like JC suggests might be a little bit of overkill. You have to learn the subtle art of, uh, subtlety. If she’s feeling depressed, you don’t want to pressure her ito having company if she doesn’t want it, but you need to have demonstrated th at you can be comforting, and could be moreso in person. In the end, you need to express your willingness and your desire to come and comfort her, but also to express that ultimately, the decision is up to her. Set it up in such a way that she has to say “no” to keep you away, instead of saying “yes” to have you over.

With the weekend date thing, it’s the same way. You say “got any plans for Saturday?” If she has tentative plans, try to work around them, or work your way into them. For instance, let’s say she and her friend are supposed to “go to the mall” on saturday. Approach it like this: I’d like to take you to dinner/lunch/bowling/rock-climbing/movie on Saturday. If she is interested, she’ll either offer you a time, or signal you in some way that it sounds good. Then, suggest a time. 6:30 ok? Then you’re set. But have a definite time that she knows you expect to pick her up. If she needs to move it one way or another, that’s cool. If she shows, you’re golden, you’ve taken the first step. If she doesn’t, then you know where you stand. If she doesn’t show, don’t make the effort to contact her again. If there was a good reason and she feels bad about it, she’ll contact YOU. Otherwise, you know where you rank on her list of importance.

Maybe it does happen, but you’re not noticing because it’s not the girls you want to talk to. Or maybe it doesn’t happen. I’m not of the opinion that this is such a great trait to have. If you don’t have to put any effort into it, you don’t appreciate things as much.

88

Exactly! When I talk about all the times our plans have fallen through, not ONCE were any of these plans dates. They were attempts of mine to hang out with her to see if anything MIGHT develop. And seeing as how they aren’t big official dates, they are essentially plans to hang out as friends, and she has lots of other friends already. Friends she doesn’t want to ignore, so I can’t expect her to completely rearrange her life just to try and make one new friend. She claims she still wants to hang out, and I want to believe her, but after this thread and the kind of advice you’ve all shared, I don’t even know what to think anymore.

We need to spend more time together before we even think of taking it from there. And that’s what I’m working on right now.

89

When somebody is really attracted to somebody else, they actually do rearrange their lives somewhat to accommodate the new person. If her life is so full that she doesn’t have room for a boyfriend, that’s not good news, either. I believe that was one of the problems Quicksilver had with a woman he met recently who was pretty compatible in a lot of other ways. I think you could search that and see how that went.

Low expectations are good for avoiding disappointment, but you’re not expecting anything at all, and she’s delivering.

90

Her friend is home on break through this weekend. If she’s not able to commit to plans sometime during the next week I’ll know where we lie.

91

John Carter completely nailed it. You’ve got to show some initiative and self-confidence if you want her to think of you as anything other than a backup friend.

I would also add that the more time you spend talking before you make a move physically, the more likely you are to end up in the friend zone. Once you’ve spent enough time with a girl to know you like her, you should kiss her. You don’t have to know everything about each other before you initiate anything physical. And the physical stuff is the fun part – it’s what makes everyone so excited about new relationships. By making a move, you play to your strengths with this girl, specifically “I live in the same town, and I want to kiss you”. If she doesn’t want to kiss you by now, it’s never, ever going to happen.

92

Me: I want to make plans for sometime next week, I figure that would be the best time because you’ll probably be hanging out with Allison this weekend. You can pick the day…but I want to take you out.
Her: You don’t have to take me out.
Me: Nobody has to do anything. But I want to do this.
Her: Haha. Okay.

I told her to pick a day by Sunday, so she’s got at least half of a week advanced notice to make time for me in her schedule. So if she calls it off, we’re done.

Enough fuckin’ around, it’s do-or-die time! :smiley:

93

Soapbox, if you want to salvage any chance of a relationship, no more of this touchy feely crap. No bowing before her whims - “If you’re up for something on Friday at 7, that’d be ok with me. If not, maybe later on Friday? Or Saturday?”. No talking about other guys - change the topic. No taking her out for a nice chat over coffee and cakes.

Choose a night, go out for drinks somewhere dark with just the two of you, do flirty chat rather than listening to her bitch about some guy hundreds of miles away. Imagine this is the first time you’ve met her and knock her socks off. No speeches, no “I’m really attracted to you and want to confess my feelings”, just flirt and gauge her reaction. If she’s flirting back, kiss her, something like that.

If it’s not going the way you wanted, if she’s acting friendly rather than flirty, cut your losses. Don’t ask her out anymore. If she wants to be friends, she can approach you, but don’t let her use you as an emotional crutch.

94

Soapbox, I gotta break it down for you man. She’s not into you. You don’t have a chance. I know it sounds harsh, but it’s the truth and the earlier you know the truth, the better and the less hurt you’ll be in the long run.

Look, I’m not proud of it, but I was once this girl. I know exactly what she’s doing. You’re her back up guy. The guy who never really has a shot with her but who she’s keeping around as an emotional security blanket. She can vent to you about her troubles and the fact that you’ve declared your undying love for her already makes her feel special and wanted. As humans, we crave that feeling and when someone who is not a crazy stalker person is giving it to us, we soak it up like the little needy sponges we all are deep down inside. This is why she’ll talk to you on messenger but always finds an excuse not to hang out in person. Believe me, if you had any shot with her, you would’ve gone out already. The very first time you brought up hanging out after you met in person, she would’ve been all over it. And she definately wouldn’t have told you all about PCU guy or about the all night snuggle-fest with the x-boyfriend a.k.a. “one twue wuv.” Seriously man, grow some nads. You’re acting like a heartbreakingly hopeful puppy. And while puppies are cute and lovable, no one wants to date one.

You’ve got some options here. The first is to cut your losses and move on. Since you’re obviously a tad bit obsessed over this girl, I’d recommend the no contact approach. And for the love of god, don’t do the whole “I’ll give her one more try!” routine for the next six months. You’re just dragging it out.

The second option is to stay friends. Don’t do this. You know and I know and everyone in this thread knows that you absolutely cannot be friends with this girl. You’re waaaaaay too into her for that, so don’t try. All you’re doing is setting yourself up for an indefinate period of torture.

So there you have it. Blunt? Yes. A bit harsh? Maybe. 110% truthful? Unfortunately, yes.

95

Move on.

Don’t be her “friend.”

Make her eat your absence.

All this “friendship” will do for you is eat at your self worth and confidence.

Don’t waste another six years on her.

96

Wow, been a while since an update.

Finally hung out with her again, just this past Friday. I picked her up and we went to the pet store (she absolutely loves animals, and I do too). We went around and she made it a point to pick up every rabbit and cuddle them, we played with the puppies, looked at the fish, then I took her to eat at the diner. Neither of us were particularly hungry so we weren’t in the mood for anything fancy (it was my treat).

We had discussed relationship potential a while back and she said she only saw us as friends for the time being (though that probably means always). And…I don’t think I have a problem with that. For the last seven years I projected my visions of the perfect girl onto her because I didn’t really know her, so all I could do was imagine what she was like. And based on the little I knew in my mind I always imagined her being this perfect girl for me. Getting to know the real her is helping me get over these impossibly high standards I’ve had because of my crush on her. Don’t get me wrong, I think she’s great, and if something happens someday that will be awesome, but for right now I’m happy being friends with her, and happy about being able to finally get over all the irrational shit that’s been in my head for so long.

97

Soapbox,

I truly hope that what you’re saying is true and you’re not just trying to rationalize not cutting ties with her. No one here is trying to dump on you, we’re just trying to save you from the inevitable heartbreak we all see coming.

98

Soapbox, I originally came in here to tell you the same as the others, to move on, but after reading the whole thing, I don’t think I need to anymore. Instead, I want to say congratulations. While your actions may have put you solidly in the “back up guy” camp, it sounds like you’ve learned and grown a lot. You had the courage to admit your feelings (always hard and scary, and frankly, something that a lot of us wimp out on), you’ve seen that the reality of your fantasy sometimes isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, you’ve gained a friend, you’ve learned that getting “shot down,” as it were, isn’t the end of the world and you’ve gained a lot of confidence. You can’t get that from anecdotes, my friend; you’ve got to earn it on your own.

Excellent show, sir, and well done. Ya done good, kid.

99

Sorry dude, but it sounds like you are entrenched in “the friend zone,” a place that I had found myself often at your age. Speaking with girls about their relationships with other guys is a bad idea . . . that means that you are a friend as opposed to a love interest. She’ll continue to call and spend hours on the phone with you, but in her mind she’ll be thinking “I love having this great friend!” and in your mind you’ll be thinking “this is turning into a great relationship!” Then, after weeks on the phone, she’ll break you’re heart and tell you about the guy she slept with last night.

Although difficult, it’s not impossible to get out of the friend zone, but unlikely. You should switch gears right away and stop making yourself so available, because it makes you look desperate. I’d bluntly ask her out on a date . . . then you can stop reading into things and know for sure. And should she accept your date, don’t go over the top . . . no flowers, no expensive dinner. You have to BE SMOOTH . . . slightly mysterious, definitely unavailable at times. If you try too hard, you reek of desperation. Play it somewhat aloof, that’s you’re best bet . . . you’ll become a challenge that she’ll take on as opposed to a cake walk. Take her out for drinks late at night at a really dark and cool bar and talk about things other than the men that she has dated who aren’t you.

100

Sorry dude, I posted my last one before this latest update was up. Chalk it up to experience. I had at least 3 of those before I learned how to stay out of the friend zone, I was terrible at it (not that I’m Rico Suave now). In fact, the only way I could be more aloof was because I felt burned by these girls, and after that I was far more disinterested in women that were interested in me. Somehow I subtly conveyed my lack of interest (since it was genuine at first) and ever since I have had far more luck with women . . . it seems most people, including myself, want what they can’t have.