My mistake. I had assumed otherwise without checking first.
You’re really spectacularly uninformed on so many issues. My older brother, along with many thousands of other Canadian-born citizens in the US, has held dual Canadian-US citizenship for decades. He holds both US and Canadian passports. This is in no way unusual.
So what’s your argument? That I was wrong, which I corrected, or that Albertans have no worry about losing their Canadian citizenship when Alberta is independent?
That if Albertans choose an insular path by discarding Canada, the new government will not want the ability of citizens to flee to the former motherland by requiring them to make a choice upon separation. Does that really seem so far fetched?
Would you like a pony too? NOT going to happen buddy.
You’ve had 50 years to do that, and have failed over and over again. Tell me how much your province has pissed away from the Heritage fund established in 1976?
Here’s a recent interview of the founder of the APP where he addresses that issue. He denies it and I do as well. The only ones saying this, or thinking it, are people such as yourself. So yeah, pretty far fetched unless you were a proponent of separation then I’d be worried.
But we expect the demonization of the independent’s motives to continue rather than any rational discussion.
Not how it works. Basic resource providers are almost always impoverished. Your goal is literally to turn Alberta into a Third World country.
Are you saying that currently, the only reason that Alberta is somewhat wealthy is because it is part of Canada? That paying more to Canada than it gives back is a good deal because without doing that we’d be ‘third world’? Somehow being subject to high taxes, complex and obscure regulatory environments, and a hostile federal government are the only thing keeping us from sliding into the abyss similar to Venezuela? Well, glory be, who knew?!
If resource production inevitably caused poverty, Alberta and Canada would already be poor. In fact, that is our opportunity in Canada. Albertans just see that most of the ROC isn’t serious in developing them and is actively trying to prevent them from being developed.
The Rest of Canada bought you a pipeline to the West Coast, and you still bleat about how it wasn’t enough.
Kindly speak for yourself. I’m an Albertan but you do not speak for me.
Yes. Without them propping Alberta up and keeping it from screwing themselves over, you’d be impoverished and likely under a dictator. As is the norm for resource-generation countries.
As proven incorrect previously. We want more pipelines. This one is full. We don’t want it to take years. And even more importantly, we don’t think we should have to ask your permission to build one.
Interesting definition of Alberta sovereignty which dictates the sovereignty of it’s neighbouring provinces.
That’s a negotiation between provinces. How does a ban on tanker’s do anything other than prevent Alberta from making that deal?
Even though we shouldn’t have to make that deal as the Federal government, in this federation, is supposed to help us develop our resources. Now we have to negotiate with them to create MOU’s and other crap that no other province needs to do to get them to do their jobs. So, we might as well be independent and have the leverage that allows us.
Legit nonsense. You either respect the Federal government to hold final and supreme authority over the development in its provinces or you respect the provinces to hold final and supreme authority over their own land. Under neither choice does Alberta get to hold final and supreme authority over their own land and that of their neighbouring provinces.
If you think the federal government can’t force control over Alberta, then by definition it CAN’T FORCE CONTROL OVER BRITISH COLUMBIA.
ETA: The MOU is Canada’s commitment to Alberta that Canada will use federal powers to override BC’s sovereignty. Then to complain that Alberta’s sovereignty should override even having to have an MOU with the Feds, Alberta is just… entitled to its neighbouring provinces land. No Feds are needed. In fact the Feds are oppressive of Alberta in this case and all pipeline cases.
There is no hint at coherency nor logic.
Straw man much?
The federal government has clear constitutional authority over interprovincial trade. Provinces cannot block roads, railways, or other federally regulated routes that move goods between provinces, and Ottawa already has the power to create rights-of-way for roads, rail, or pipelines where needed. The issue is how that authority is being exercised or not.
The problem with having to create MOU’s to get things done isn’t about cooperation. It’s that provinces are no longer dealing with the federal government as a neutral constitutional authority applying clear laws. Instead, they’re negotiating with the priorities and ideology of the governing Liberal Party. Rather than fixing the rules, Ottawa is managing outcomes politically, replacing predictable governance with partisan discretion. Which is essentially what I’ve been saying on the Carney thread.
When market access depends on political negotiation instead of stable law, it’s fair to ask whether provinces are better off continually bargaining with a party that may not represent them or negotiating as sovereign entities with the full powers of independent states. We’d have more power, leverage, and international law to back us in making deals beneficial to all parties.
Yeah, and why do you think the Feds are not just plowing through? Could it be that THE STAKEHOLDERS OVER THOSE LANDS just do not want a pipeline? Perhaps THAT is a problem, eh? That the Feds are unwilling to take actions against THEIR wishes since it’s THEIR LAND.
And guess what? This MoU was signed without BC representation; the Feds have vowed without a single BC agreement. However, even when the Federal government bends over backwards to accommodate pipeline building Albertans over land owning BC-ans… There’s people who still hate the Feds. That the Feds are REQUIRED, or HESITANT at imposing their authority over unwilling BC Tribes and landowners… that’s federal oppression of Albertans!
Clearly if Alberta were independent it could pipe oil anywhere it wants! No need to consult ANY stakeholders. Especially not those in BC. Just madness!
Yes, stakeholders matter. Indigenous consultation is a constitutional requirement, and private landowners have rights that must be respected. No serious person is arguing otherwise, and Alberta independence advocates aren’t calling for pipelines to be rammed through “without consulting anyone.” That’s a caricature, not a position. It also ignores all the previous consultations where indigenous groups did sign agreements. But not signing an agreement doesn’t mean that they have a veto.
The Federal governments role in law:
- Negotiate with Indigenous people (private companies and proponents only facilitate this with agreements, etc.). Indigenous do not have a veto.
- Acquire the land from private owners through expropriation (again private companies can negotiate or buy the land).
- Tell BC (or any other province) to pound sand if they try to politically block projects within the purview and benefit of the Federation.
All this federal government is doing is passing the buck and making Alberta do the work for them. It would be TMX all over again as some group will claim they weren’t consulted enough and the court cases will continue ad nauseum but the feds can just throw up their hands saying it wasn’t our fault.
- Negotiate with Indigenous people (private companies and proponents only facilitate this with agreements, etc.). Indigenous do not have a veto.
Translation: We’ll ask nicely, but if you say no, we will ignore you and build it anyway. - Acquire the land from private owners through expropriation (again private companies can negotiate or buy the land).
Translation: We’ll ask nicely, but if you say no, we will ignore you and build it anyway. - Tell BC (or any other province) to pound sand if they try to politically block projects within the purview and benefit of the Federation.
Translation: Go fuck yourselves, we’re going to build it anyway.
Albertans: How dare you ignore us and do what you want anyway?