All men are so 'simple', really? (Re "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands"

[paste]Specifically, wives should devote themselves to meeting their husband’s basic needs as men, meaning you should give them affection and admiration and approval and acceptance. The best ways of doing this include praising them for they do right, being grateful for their efforts on supporting the household (her default audience seems to be Stay At Home wifes with Working Husbands), not nagging, keeping the household running so it’s decently clean and non-hectic, providing good home cooked meals most of the time, being attentive to his need for attention, not dumping too much of your own neediness on him, accepting him for who he is, and (very important) providing lots of good sex to show you still love and admire him.[/paste]I’m a guy. Happily married for 7 years.

Both people have to participate in the relationship. It’s not always shared evenly. But I think most things need to be shared. Dr. Laura seems to think men only want sex and a meal. She’s needs to expand her circle of friends, and perhaps stop hanging out in strip clubs that serve food.

ROFLMAO

I love nookie when time and physical proximity allow it with mrAru =) but sice he is the one with the job right now, and it is a 75 mile one way trip to work, I do the majority of housework, and our roomie does the heavy stuff I cant. We have an odd schedule - he works second shift so we eat our main meal in the morning and a light supper when he gets home - but I like to make sure he has a nice light supper. Why should we split up the housework when I am home all the time? If we were both working, we would split it up like we have done in the past…but for now I am doing the 50’s betty homemaker schtick for now=)

You are right that she needs to get out more - most women I know like sex, and many men I know don’t mind splitting the housework. Heck, many men I know do all the cooking and food shopping, and the wives love it because they don’t really get into cooking and are relieved that the guy loves it and wants to do it=)

Me? I love cooking, and shopping for food, just wish we could win the lottery or me get a job as we are always short on cash, and I hate doing dishes and cleaning so a maid would be great=)

  1. the remote control.

Yeah, and it really impresses the chicks.

From the OP:

Well, you see, that’s the problem. Dr. Laura DOES see things only in black and white. People are one thing OR the other, not a blend of both.

For instance, my husband is a huntin’, fishin’, sports-watchin’ redneck who will watch ANY John Wayne movie at any time, yet he’s also a darned fine mother hen to any small children, and has even been known to cook and clean with enjoyment. Yeah, he DOES like sex, sex, food, and the remote, but he’s a little more complicated than that. He would LOVE to be a nanny or child care worker if it paid enough to actually be worth doing, and he’d make a fine one.

I think that Dr. Laura is guilty of not considering men to be full human beings, worthy of respect as individuals. I’ve heard her berate men for not being her ideal of a man, as well as berate women for not being Happy Housewives. I’m sure that for the men and women who are or who want to fit her her ideals are very glad to have her support and encouragement. But I also think that these people are not full adults, for the most part.

I don’t know much about Dr. Laura, but this thread and other gender stuff that I’ve heard of make me wonder if what they’re getting at (possibly clumsily or politically incorrectly) is the idea that women have been trying to be these, “I am Woman, hear me roar” type superwomen for more than 30 years now, and while it may be satisfying for the woman to have all these options, she may not realize that she is trying to do too much and therefore, is not doing everything as well as she could be (meaning the kids will be neglected and get into trouble because the parents aren’t at home and that the marriage will suffer because she can’t possibly pay as much attention to her husband as a happy marriage really requires - she’s either not home, too busy, or too tired to do anything, including having sex).

Then men are left out in the cold, feeling neglected and superfluous, not knowing what their roles in this brave new world are. It’s not like we need men to fight off invaders, hunt deer or chop firewood any more.

Meanwhile, these super-women, drunk on their own power and self-importance (so goes the theory), forget to be polite and kind to their husbands and don’t seem to be quite so “super” after all. Perhaps in another generation or so, the pendulum will swing back a little and women will stop trying to do everything and the divorce rates will fall (at least a little).

Of course, these works do not address the fact that economically, many, many families have to have two incomes. Also, sometimes they suggest the idea that it is still primarily the woman’s job to take care of the children, or that if one parent stays at home with the children, it should be the woman. Finally, there is the idea that, while technology and a changing world economy have enabled women to join men in the workforce as never before, socially or biologically we are still the same as we were in caveman days: we are hard-wired to want certain gender roles, and women are only hurting themselves if they want to try to usurp too much of what was the man’s role.

Personally (and speaking as a woman who adores and is eternally fascinated by men), I don’t know what to make of this. It doesn’t quite apply to my life, as I’m not married, so I don’t know how to evaluate it. I think maybe arguing over this kind of debate is an inevitable step in our still-changing gender roles. I think there must be something here, or we wouldn’t bring up these subjects. I am open to the idea that maybe (some) women are trying to do too much, to prove themselves when they don’t need to any more, and that (some) men are feeling unneeded. I had hoped that The Stepford Wives movie might have addressed this argument somehow.

When I see strong women in movies who can physically out-fight the men in everything from Aliens to G. I. Jane to King Arthur, I wonder what’s going on: are we saying we women have to rely on ourselves to take care of ourselves – that we just can’t count on men, or that we don’t feel safe in the world? Or just that given that we are physically smaller and weaker (most of us) than men (most of 'em), is it just a “look what I can do” empowerment fantasy – we know darn well that we couldn’t out-fight a man in the real world hand-to-hand (guns and bows and arrows are another issue)? I suspect a strong woman allowing a strong man to physically look out for her would be seen as offensive nowadays, and I’m not sure I understand why.

Anyway, just thinking out loud, here.

Haven’t read the book, but I get the gist and I generally (generally) agree. Let me elaborate. I was recently on a big Sex and The City kick. Clothes; hot new night clubs; blowing your budget on shoes; sexual freedom and adventurousness. Hilarious. Really. It was a witty, clever little show; I got it. I’m off the kick now, because the lead characters just started to get under my skin with their condescension toward men, to wit:

  • Carrie and the girls looking down on the engagement ring she received (“it was a pear-shaped diamond, with a gold band” Response: “EWWWWWW!” / “GASP!”)

  • Analyzing to DEATH, with the girls, over drinks, every, little thing that’'s come up between you and the latest man in your life. Example: Miranda found (GASP) skid marks on Steve’s underwear. Of course it had to be discussed to death: “Why / how do men make skid marks?” “Don’t they know how gross it is?” Geez, People, grow the fuck up!

  • I was describing a funny scene to a male friend about when Carrie was discussing a new boyfriend who had just revealed he was into “watersports” during sex; she was discussing it with the girls of course; hilarity ensued. My male friend (both of us are in happy marriages) said, without cracking a smile or missing a beat, “I don’t think those kinds of things should be discussed between girlfriends, and I would never date a woman who did that”. Ya know, on reflection, he’s right.

  • I could go on and on about the double standards in the series imposed on sexually promiscuous / two-timing men vs. women.

(Note: I know, I know, there wouldn’t even be a show without these exchanges between the girls, but as I say, the whole scene just wore thin for me).

The point is, I think Dr. Laura is right in that:

  • There are too many women who run to their girlfriends and repeat personal things about their husbands that should remain between husband and wife; men, as a rule, just don’t engage in this kind of behavior.

  • There are a lot of women who have decent husbands, but for whatever reason, have been conditioned into believing it’s “ok” to look upon them in a somewhat condescending manner, roll their eyes, be bossy, nag about things that aren’t really that important, however you want to describe the behaviors. Again, men, as a rule, don’t do much of this, hence there is somewhat of a double standard. I see this a lot in couples I know. I used to do it a lot myself, and I think it was a huge mistake.

Someone made the point earlier, that the advice in the book pre-supposes that one’s husband isn’t a bum to begin with, and of course has to fundamentally deserve the good treatment to begin with. I think this is an excellent point too as a preface to the whole discussion.

I’ve read the book and I found it quite interesting.

Dr. Laura does preface the book that if one of the three A’s applies (Abuse, Addiction, or Adultery) her book does not apply to your relationship.

I think a35362 has hit it on the head. Women have been known to male-bash, but woe to the man who does the same thing.

It’s like Jeff Foxworthy says, “I want a beer, and I want to see something nekkid.” I talked to Ivylad, and he says yeah, it is that simple. He’s either hungry or horny. The rest he doesn’t fret about.

Maybe I’m setting my standards too high. And, Ivylass, I am not trying to insult you, but that last comment kinda… puts me off. I just expect my husband to be a partner; I hope he wants more out of our life together than a lay and a meal. I made a lot of mistakes the first time around, I really don’t want to make them again. As I said after my kids’ dad and I broke up: “The sex was good, but eventually you have to talk to each other.”

And that’s what it really comes down to. This is supposed to be your best friend. Not your pet, not your bed buddy, not some room mate who you happen to sleep with. It’s your best friend. To make a marriage work, I think you have GOT to be best friends. Half a dozen times a day, I think “I cannot wait to tell *if6was9 about this!” He’s my sounding board & my confidante & my cheerleader all rolled up into one. There’s so much more to our relationship.

I’m not put off, Maureen, that’s what Ivylad said when I told him there has to more than that.

The book is about treating your husband with respect, and recognizing that just because he doesn’t bring you flowers on your birthday it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you. And recognizing that just because he doesn’t articulate his needs it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have them. Again, quoting Jeff Foxworthy, you never see a man run crying from the room with the wife staring at him in confusion, asking, “What did I say?”

John Gray’s books are much better.

Duh! Maureen! That’s exactly the point the book is trying to get at! You get it! You agree with Dr. Laura!

Okay, now that you’ve picked yourself up off the floor :smiley: That is the whole point of the book…you have to be a team, and respect your partner, and want to be with each other. And you do that by expressing your love for each other in everything you do and say. The way you talk to each other, and about each other. The things you do for each other. The way you balance each other’s talents and skills into a working, loving relationship.

And to say men are simple does not mean they are dumb, or boring, or childish. It just means that there are basics to life that everyone needs, outside of intellectual or physical pursuits, and guys aren’t overly demanding. They can pare their needs down to basic elements, and everything else is gravy. Imagine you’re on a desert island. That kind of basic. Building block basics…this is what you build from.

kittenblue-

Sorry to appear obtuse…but am I reading that correct? As in the gist of her book is NOT that men are simple minded…but simple in their basic wants and needs?

Well, then, kittenblue, it sounds like I should prolly read the book before I judge it. :smiley:

I was, as I said, put off of Dr. Laura by her radio program. And a t.v. interview, in which she said that women should wait til their children are grown before starting their careers. :rolleyes:

I have never listened to nor read Dr. Laura, so I have no idea what she says. But my theory, as a woman, on men/women is this:

Most men (not all), when they marry or get into a stable relationship, sort of blow a mental sigh of relief and think “well, now that’s taken care of.” The relationship remains important to them, but it’s sort of like buying a house: you move in, you unpack, you do what initial stuff needs to be done, and then you don’t want to think about it anymore; you love it and you need/want it, but when it demands your attention, it’s because something is wrong and that’s a hassle. Although men occasionally get hit by “the thunderbolt” and fall big time for someone else, usually I think they are inclined to remain content in a marriage as long as it’s not actively making them unhappy, and as long as it’s providing the basic things they got married for: sex (of course), and physical and mental/emtional comfort at home. They may lust after the occasional nubile body, but they really don’t have any active desire to change their situation.

Women tend to be much more analytical about their marriages, and view them as a work in progress rather than a goal achieved. They constant evaluate and judge whether or not the marriage is as good as it could be, or as good as being single. I know a few women whose marriages are comfortable backdrops/support systems for their “real lives,” but not many.

I don’t think this makes men worse than women, or vice versa. But whether due to social conditioning or inherent genetics, I think that’s the way it is. YMMV, of course.

Absolutely. Why anyone would choose the derogatory definition over the complimentary one baffles me, to be honest.

I’ve found that with Dr. Laura, as with any media personality, people tend to react to the personality and not the message. One day, doing a lot of driving, I heard Dr. Laura giving someone a verbal dopeslap about a problem…she cut through all the touchy-feely sympathy and just told the woman straight out that what she was doing was not working, obviously, and that maybe she should change her behavior and thinking. An hour later I was listening to Dr Joy Browne and she gave the exact same advice to another woman, but stated it in a quieter manner, though with the same insistency…what you’re doing is not working, make a change.

Later that night, I caught a program that had skipped across the airwaves from who-knows-where, and the host was a recovering addict. The caller had a similar situation to the above caller, but this time got a “you poor baby, no one really understands you” type answer that wandered around the point and did nothing to actually wake the person up to reality. I much prefer the direct method. Yes, I get annoyed with Dr. Laura when she cuts a caller off and jumps to conclusions, but I try to remember that she gets info about the caller that we don’t hear from the screener, and she is very good at getting people to realize they are repeating themselves and adding no new information. I much prefer Dr. Joy, by the way.

I’ve never had any exposure to Dr. Laura – I’ve never been much for self-help gurus of any variety. But as far as men being simple, I think she has a point. Not “simple” in the sense of stupid. Simple in the sense that we generally like things to be straightforward and uncomplicated, to the extent that it’s possible.

Just look at the differences in the way men and women tend to communicate. How often have you heard a man tell a woman, “Don’t give me hints. Just tell me what you want.”? Women like to deal with the subtleties and nuances of a situation. Men like to focus on the basic essence of a thing. Of course, as with all generalizations, there are plenty of exceptions. But I think overall this is true.

Heh. Reminds me of a joke.
Q: How do you tell your husband wants to eat chinese food tonight?

A: He’ll say, "How about Chinese tonight?

Q: How do you tell your wife wants to eat chinese food tonight?

A: She’ll say, “Hmmm. ‘Shanghai Express’ is on tonight. Hmmm. Isn’t that the one with what’s her name? You know, she was in that musical, what’s it called…‘Flower Drum Song,’ isn’t that it?”

That’s one of two things I tell my wife on a near-constant basis. The other, in the context of a honey-do project, is: “You can tell me what you want done, or you can tell me how to do it, but dammit, you can’t do both.”