Yeah, with someone who has been a bit battered in the self-esteem department, he probably doesn’t want to go the self-deprecating route. Too much potential to come off as whiny, insecure, or needy.
Sounds creepy.
True, that’s why I said “a bit”. But I guess considering the OP, I should have left it out altogether.
Doesn’t translate via text too well, it seems. And by “lots of eye contacts”, I don’t mean “staring” or constant eye contact. Just don’t be adverse to looking her in the eyes. Of course take cues from her body language though.
My take:
- Yup.
- Nope. You look fine.
- Sure. Not a big deal, but wouldn’t hurt.
- Yup.
- Yup. I still think that a picture of you dressed something like this just to change it up wouldn’t hurt.
- Wouldn’t hurt.
- Yup.
This is also good advice.
It doesn’t sound like you’re taking it too seriously, Reply, but don’t pay any attention to Fear of the Dark - you don’t sound pathological in any way to me.
If everything has already gone well up to that point she already knows that you’re interested and is either waiting for you to ask or trying to think of a nice way to say no if you do. If she’s also hoping to meet someone she will be helping you with this if she wants to know more about you. She might even make the first move and ask you out.
But you could scare her off. That’s a risk you take. If you’re afraid of getting rejected that’s the same thing as saying you don’t have confidence. And you can hear these ladies telling you that confidence is way up there on the list of things to have. So don’t be afraid to say “I’ve really enjoyed talking to you and I’d like to see you again. Would you like to go out sometime?” If she says no, she says no. Life goes on.
That’s why when I say:
by unambiguous I mean: ask if she will go on a date with you. Don’t avoid rejection by trying to make it sound too platonic. Say “I would really like to see you again, would you go to dinner with me some time?” not “If you’re going that way anyway, maybe we could share a ride to the forestry seminar next week.”
This is all just what helps put you in the game. As far as taking this and then finding a good long term match - welcome to the search. You may be starting late but you aren’t far behind many who have already been playing the game for 15 years. Timing and chemistry are everything, especially for the short term laid-getting. But finding someone really compatible for the long haul takes all of that and some luck that seems to be pretty much out of our control.
I feel creepy just reading that. Is that really what people do?
How do you do it without coming across as a desperate virgin?
Wouldn’t even begin to know where to find something like that. Maybe I’ll ask a well-dressed friend to go shopping with me next time. Where are my gay buddies when I need 'em…
Thanks 
His comments aren’t altogether out of left field. There have been issues in the past, certainly, and I’m grateful to have largely moved past them.
True enough. I guess I’ve never regretted asking someone, only the times I didn’t.
Hmm. I really like that, actually. It’s direct and to-the-point. Certainly (I hope) prevents future drama, unless she’s too nice to say no. In which case it’s not my fault anyway.
Heh, I suppose that’s the politically correct way to put it. Thanks.
Talk to these guys. Link to sosuave, a forum for guys who want to become pick up artists.
I had a rather long reply, but then I thought I’d see if anyone has already written some of this down. Here’s a good overview of flirting. I didn’t agree with everything in it, but I didn’t feel like rolling my eyes at anything, either.
There are two problems I seem to consistently see with dudes with dating problems when there is nothing particularly wrong with their personality or looks. It can be one of the two or both.
**1. Only attracted to women waaay out of their league. **
The friends I have in mind are attractive enough but they consistently try to get with women that any objective third party will say they don’t have a shot with and then bitch about their love life or women in general or something.
It’s all good and well to hold yourself in high regard but sometimes you need to be realistic about your… Capabilities.
**2. Too strong, too fast. **
I think a number of people mentioned that desperation is very unattractive. A buddy of mine I think is a good example. He’s handsome, athletic, socially competent, getting a PhD in physics, etc. and I feel like if I was female or gay I would find him attractive. But he always strikes out because after the first date he’ll be texting or calling her a little too often. And these women tend not to be out of his league.
I think for a lot of guys many things that women find initially unattractive and attractive are sort of counter-intuitive. You’d think that extra attention and interest would work in your favor but they apparently don’t in most cases. But this of probably depends a lot on the individual, but this is what I’ve personally noticed so take it as you will.
… And of course these things may not apply to you but if you suspect they might then um… Cut it out.
If you feel creepy touching someone, then don’t do it. Your feeling of creepiness will inevitably be conveyed to the other person.
This is why I love you guys. I ask for tips on flirting, I get back a meta-analysis on the scientific literature on human courtship. Brilliant
Probably guilty of both. I’m as shallow as any man out there, but without the social skills, wealth, or muscle to compensate. I will be more realistic about my chances.
And try to not harass them too much. I take it a restraining order is a sign I should stop texting, yes?
But if you aren’t touching, that’s why women throw you into the “friend” bucket. Men who are interested in you find an excuse to touch you. They hand you your coffee at the coffee shop. They reach for something for you and hand it to you. They might say “I’m sorry, you have something…” and brush an imaginary leaf out of your hair or lint off your shoulder (not the chest! Even if the lint isn’t imaginary, not the chest!). Creepy is reaching across the table and grabbing a hand when you’ve just met, or putting a hand on your shoulder for no reason. (That’s why that first romantic touch - hand holding, cuddling - is so risky). But guys who don’t touch you, you spend a lot of time thinking “well, maybe he only likes me as a friend” and by the time the guy gets around to letting you know, signals are crossed. Backrubs at parties are time honored ways to touch and flirt. If a shoulder rub is followed by the girl getting up to go get a drink, there isn’t any interest. If it turns into a cuddle, she is (or she’s drunk).
They also flirt with what they say. Telling a girl she has eyes like pools of water isn’t going to go over - its hokey, but mentioning that “you’ve always had a thing for girls who wear glasses” lets her know that your invitation to the movies is an invitation to a date and not a “hey, lets get together as friends.”
Almost every woman I know has gone out on the “is this a date?” date. Its awkward and uncomfortable. Which doesn’t mean you should show up with flowers and candy - but hell, give us a clue before Saturday night!
Guys who are out in the wilderness (relationship-wise) can lose the ability to judge whether a girl likes them or not.
A friend of mine who I suspect was the stereotype 40-year old virgin (not close enough friend to talk about that or try to help him though) would say things like “I know that girl in the office likes me, because when I go to make myself a tea, often she’ll come right in after and make herself a tea” :smack:
This is something I had to get used to.
Not romantic touching, just innocuous taps in mid conversation. They help to break down an invisible wall. And as you say, they can sometimes naturally escalate such that there’s no doubt that you like each other.
Be handsome
Be attractive
Don’t be unattractive
[QUOTE=MeanOldLady]
Sounds creepy.
[/quote]
It only “sounds creepy” because women don’t like the idea of men practicing specific behaviors to try to influence a woman into liking them. But in all fairness, it can come across like a salesman perfecting his pitch.
Um…yeah..now THAT’S creepy, dude.
Well, do you observe what those other college students do and how they act?
Looking at your profile again, you “When I was younger” picture is really the only one that portrays you in a flattering way. In that picture, you’re clean-shaven. You actually did something with your hair. And you’re wearing a collared shirt instead of a brown t-shirt. The first step in getting a woman to be attracted to you is to actually look like someone they would be attracted to.
As for “flirting”, well that is a complex subject that is specific to each individual. But as a general rule, you want to draw a woman to you. Not push yourself on her. Occassional light contact like touching her shoulder to get her attention or leaning in close so you can hear each other talk is ok. Opening with “hug” or “back massage” is weird and creepy. But some guys can pull that off.
Also, “categorizing” relationhships and interactions seems like a bad idea to me. “Is this a date?” “Do you want to be my girlfriend?” “Do you want to have sex?” You don’t ask these things as if you are applying for a job. It’s you alone with a girl. Make it so she wants it to be a date. If it goes really well, you might even get laid. Make it a regular thing, congradulations! Now you have a girlfriend!
Don’t ask her to go out with you and your friends. Maybe even use the word “date” in the request. “Would you like to go out on a date next Friday? I heard about a great thai place I want to try out. Yeah? Let me get your number and I’ll give you a call on Monday.”
Also - if you do the above, and don’t call on Monday, she’s going to back out. ALWAYS call back. (And in fact, always set easy-to-accomplish deadlines like that (and follow through with them), it shows her that you’re a) serious and b) not a lazy sack of shit.)
Please listen to this. Not just the OP but anyone whose eyes have a life of their own. This year, I dated someone who would literally gaze directly at my face whenever there was lull in the conversation. Despite being a psychiatrist, he seemed totally dense to the fact that this habit of his made me very uncomfortable, even after I made negative comments about it. Maybe he thought I should have been flattered by this undivided attention or maybe he just didn’t realize he was doing it, I don’t know. But it was a quirk that made intimacy difficult. It made it hard for me to be quiet around him, because silence was his cue to begin staring at me like the children of the damned.
Then there was another guy would stare at me when he thought I wasn’t looking, in a manner that made me think he was sizing me up for flaws. Can’t put my finger on why I felt that way, though. Annoying regardless.
I say all of this to say that paying attention to someone’s body language is extremely important. Eye contact is not a bad thing, but you need to look for indications that you’re coming across as too intense. If you’re not good with making eye contact, don’t feel too bad about it. To a lot of women, that’s more endearing than being able to stare into someone’s eyes with laser-like focus.
See, your profile is accurate in that way - I had a feeling you weren’t a guy with a lot of sport coats in his closet. It probably isn’t a big deal, but a well-rounded guy can go out for dinner at a nice restaurant or dress up for a staff Christmas party as well as dig trees.
No, that just means she’s playing hard to get.
KIDDING! JUST KIDDING!
Oh, that’s too difficult. I’d give up looking for a partner if what you say is true. Moving on. Back to being computer freak nerd!
Man, some serious suggestions I have for you. Find something that will keep your mind busy. There are lots of people around me who feel lonely and can’t find a partner. Thing is it doesn’t bother them. They just don’t give a damn. You seem to be dwelling on your problems too much.