Yeah, but they have to feel comfortable doing so, or else it’ll come off as weird. I’d rather have a man be uninterested in me than to be creepily interested. If he doesn’t feel right sneaking in a touch, it’s going to be obvious and come off as skeevy. Maybe with enough practice flirting with women, a touch will seem natural and comfortable to him, but until then, it’s just going to come off as “Why the hell is he touching me?”
Yeah, your endorsement just confirms how creepy it is.
Fear, what I say is true, so I guess this means you’re giving up. Well that’s too bad because you seem so charming!
If you find “smiling, eye contact and humor” creepy, maybe the problem is with you.
FYI, “confidence” is not about acting like you don’t give a shit about everyone else because they are idiots. That just makes someone come across as a bitter, disinterested jerk who is probably overcompensating for a lack of confidence.
Someone who displays real confidence has a comfortible, easy going manner around all sorts of people. A confident person knows they have a lot to offer and they aren’t afraid to show it.
The difficult part for many guys is realizing that flirting isn’t just a package of learned behaviours - it’s a form of two-way communication. When it goes well, there is no question about it - when you touch the other person, you already have a pretty good idea it will be welcomed, and indeed expected.
I would not say that “comming across as creepy” has to do with the person doing the flirting being “comfortable” doing it, so much as that they are doing flirting-like behaviours without the aspect of two-way communication - that is, to someone who is not flirting right back at them, who maybe doesn’t want to flirt, has no interest.
Flirting should build on feedback you are getting from the other person. If you are getting none, flirting can’t be successful and should be avoided! If you are getting feedback, then escalate as long as that feedback remains positive.
Sure, bud. Lots of smiling, lots of eye contact and shoehorning in compliments *does *make you seem like a salesman, which is not a good thing on a date. Yeah, this kind of attitude explains why you’re the SDMB record holder for “Waaaaah, women won’t give me a chaaaaaaaance” posts. It’s because your idea of charm is apparently creepy as fuck.
Malthus, you’re right. Clearly some guys feel a little too comfortable making with the awkward touches (creep factor of 11), so comfort alone isn’t all there is to it. I suppose I should add that being able to understand what the other party is communicating to you is important too. The main point was don’t touch someone if it makes you uncomfortable, because your discomfort will exude, and it’s not attractive.
Edit: And while we’re here, Reply, don’t worry about dressing like that guy in the photo. Just avoid white sneakers and you’ll be fine.
This is absolutely right. Reply, if you aren’t born with a feel for this kind of communication, you aren’t going to learn it from detailed instructions from other people. You may learn a set of rules and techniques, but when you need to use them, you will fail because you will be too busy processing other peoples’ advice instead of developing your own feel for how to communicate.
Get out of your own head. Watch other people. I know you don’t want to meet girls in bars, but go to bars anyway and observe. Practice watching people without looking creepy. You can eventually see what works and what doesn’t. You will pick up things from girl’s body language that the dude chatting her up will miss because he’s too busy coming up with inane stuff to say. You can’t just skip to the end of the story and get other people to break it all down for you. If you want to learn social skills, you have to put in the time watching people thoughtfully.
How do you think you are going to keep the relationship you get if you aren’t so good at nonverbal communication?
Oh, I agree - if you are touching someone else you should be pretty comfortable doing it, because you already have a good idea they are into it.
Forcing flirting on others when they aren’t into it is, as you say, pretty creepy. It may be fuly excusable in the ‘I’m inexperienced and I don’t really know how to do this’ kinda way, but the other person is likely to get the message that his or her feedback isn’t important to the person doing it - and that is just plain unattractive. An unwanted touch is invasive, so it’s better to only use touch if s/he’s already giving other signs of being interested.
Ideally, flirtation should be like an exhilarating dance. Trying to force things is like stomping all over your partner’s toes. At best it seems damned clumsy.
The one thing I really miss, being married, is flirtation. That’s now in the past for me. I certainly don’t miss the difficulty of finding people, or the drama of relationships gone bad, but I do miss that ‘aha!’ moment when you just know that the other person is interested …
All right. Well, I don’t think flirting is going to work too well then. If I’ve been reading body language correctly over the past few years, exactly zero of my prospects have been interested in return.
Anyway, guys, thanks for all the advice. I’ll keep it all in mind for the next time somebody interesting comes along. In the meantime I will be more realistic about my chances and try to look better and work to magically become sexier.
And if that fails, well, the world goes on.
Hah. Nailed it.
As far as I can tell, they walk around, do homework, and fuck. Seems effortless.
That was from a brief period when I lived in LA and felt the need to dress and behave like a slimy douchebag to fit in at the bars. I’m quite glad I moved away. Any woman attracted to that persona is going to be repulsed by the real me, so no point faking that any longer.
You try going 28 years celibate and let me know if it bothers you.
Not that you’d believe it, but I do have a life outside of pining for women.
It just sounded far-fetched to someone who’s had no experience. It seems so artificial, like some sort of silly game. But I guess that’s how it works. Lord knows what seems “natural” to me has never worked.
Reply, don’t allow yourself to be bothered by the pseudo-pity that others are expressing. Yours is not a sad life, though you are perfectly justified in wanting more. You haven’t crossed everything off your list. But that’s all this is. Just another item on a list. You can do it.
There’s nothing about you that indicates that you as a person is “wrong”. Your game may need some refinement, but the person that is Reply is an okay dude. Always remember that.
Dismissing what people are saying as “magic” or a “silly game” might be a reason why you’re alone. Thinking you’ve been reading body language correctly when you seem to have been ignorant of a lot of the very simple ideas might be another.
I recognize that no one is offering an easy, instant fix, and it might not even be worth it to you, but it’s not magic.
No, I wasn’t clear. I will be incorporating this stuff the next time I’m interested in someone – hence the “I guess that’s how it works” part. I may not like it, but I believe it.
And magic is just what it seems like. I hope your advice helps me in the future. I aim to try it out.
If I continue to fail for another ten years, then I really will conclude it’s magic.
Ha, got it. Sorry that I got cranky about it. It may seem like magic, but I promise that it’s more like reading. Some people learn it really early and seem to pick it up without effort. For others, it takes more work. But if you’re neurologically normal, and not everyone is, it’s generally learnable. It sucks that you have to work so hard, but as someone who cherishes relationships, I think it’s completely worth it.
I believe you. I’m willing to try and learn it. It might even be kinda fun to practice.
The person I currently have a huge, harmless, hopeless crush on happens to a be a professor of mine, so that’s probably not the best person to try this on I’m in enough academic trouble without a sexual harassment case thrown in.
Hmm. But let me ask you something. Let’s say, hypothetically, there’s a girl or two (regular students) who I think might be interested in me but who I’m not all that into. We’re acquainted and the body language stuff you all talked about seem quite apparent… lots of eye contact, attention, hair-twirling, etc. I’ve actually been a bit worried about leading them on because they seem much more interested in me than any woman I’ve ever liked.
I’m not strongly attracted to them, but not repulsed either – there’s maybe a mild curiosity. Would it be wrong to see where that goes?
If you were in their shoes, knowing what I told you about the ambivalence, would you feel annoyed/played/offended? I don’t want to hurt them, but I’m not sure if this is just SOP in the regular world of relationships.
I think you need to stop overthinking things. I mean, yes it’s bad to string someone along, but flirting with someone you are mildly interested in just to see where things end up is not something you should have to stress out about. When I was in college, people dated other people they weren’t madly attracted to all the time. That’s what young and unattached people do.
I’m in enough academic trouble without a sexual harassment case thrown in.