I’m over 6 feet tall and I don’t date men who are shorter than me, purely because I don’t find them attractive, sexually or otherwise … I get a heck of a lot of stick for it too, funnily enough from short men. I don;t known any woman who is married to or dating a guy who is even an inch shorter than she is and they all say they wouldn’t, so it’s not just me!
Sez you. A couple of the best lovers I’ve had were a touch ‘overweight’ in the classic sense (they wore it fine, but they weren’t going to be cast for any health club commercials either). Really, in the grand scheme of what makes a good lover, tight abs and glutes fall pretty low on my list under things like attitude. YMMV.
Anyway, I don’t think the OP is a shallow asshole, but then again I’ve said about the same in the past so I guess I wouldn’t 
I can’t imagine having a dating relationship with someone I don’t find physically attractive for whatever reason and I can’t imagine such a relationship would be very fair (or fulfilling) to either of us.
I believe you.
(sorry for the slight hijack that follows, I will try to bring it back to the OP’s point)
So why is it that when I express these thoughts – your thoughts – to my friends and a therapist (twice) that they mockingly disbelieve me? “Oh women don’t care about that!” (and it’s women who are saying this – women married to taller men I should add). “You’re just avoiding risk by thinking taller women don’t want a shorter man (me), that’s silly hahahaha.” Seriously, why do women dispute the existence of a very common female preference for a taller man? I feel doubly ignored – first by the woman who are 0.25 inches taller, and by my female friends who don’t believe that most (95%) of women prefer a taller man. No wonder I’m grumpy about it.
So, I have cultivated an interest in Rubenesque women. I think they experience, as women, what I experience as a man. In other words: a fat woman is treated by men as a short man is treated by women. Some of my best lovers have been queen-sized. So, I deliberately notice images of fat women (not easy to find in our society). I confront my own biases toward body types. In social situations I will look at the full-figured women and remember the great connections I had with similar women in the past. So, now I see a fat woman and feel excited. I think about sex.
I don’t judge women’s preference as shallow – though perhaps it. I see it as natural for whatever reason it exists. I also don’t think they are assholes unless they treat me with disrespect simply because of my physical attributes.
So greck got it right about the difference between shallow and asshole. Thank you for eloquently clarifying the issue greck.
I myself, date or make love to a person, not a body.
YMMV of course.
Nope. Date whoever you want to date. Just don’t be mean or rude about it.
Could you define “otherwise?”
Unless the person you’re dating or making love to is some discorporal spirit from the nether world, I fail to see where the two are mutually exclusive.
For me, anything less than five tons, as long as an interesting personality and engaging intellect are present…
Godzillatemple: Don’t let anyone make you feel guilty about liking what you like. I had a similar thread going in IMHO about my dating criteria, and people were all over me for wanting to date a guy with a chin, for god’s sake.
I think being physically attracted to your SO is of great importance. Yes, personality is also of great importance, but if the sight/smell/sound of your supposed love interest doesn’t excite you, then why not just be friends? I myself like skinny guys (or “lanky” if you will) and I have not really deviated from that proclivity in my entire dating life. That’s what I like and it works for me.
If you, like me, are fairly open-minded, compassionate, decent person for the most part, if you want to be picky about the person you have sex with, then be picky. As long as you aren’t cruel to people to whom you are not attracted, then no one really has a right to label you as shallow. You, after all, are the person who has to live with the decision of who you choose to sleep with.
I wouldn’t call someone who isn’t sexually attracted to “morbidly obese people” a shallow asshole. You can’t help what you like and dislike. I do think, however, people should try to gently test their boundaries from time to time. You might be pleasantly surprised. Some things are just set in stone, though.
Hi godzillatemple … I don’t think you are being in the least bit assholish. I don’t think you’re being shallow either. Sexual attraction is a tricky thing and can not be feigned or forced.
I hope this isn’t a hijack…I do think it’s relevant to the OP. A couple of years ago I was very ill. The disease I had was affecting my kidneys (unbeknownst to me and my doctors). In one week I gained 20 lbs. Then a month later another 30 lbs. Then another 20 lbs until I had gained almost 80 lbs of water weight. I was not urinating much which should have been a clue, but the doctors continued to do tests and unfortunately they weren’t the right ones…So I went from being 5 ft 9 and a size 4/6 to I don’t even know what. I refused to go shopping for new clothes because I was EXTREMELY depressed (gross understatement). I lived like this for almost 2 years and I could write a book about my experiences being overweight. (What an eye opener!) Through it all my husband (then fiance) was so supportive of me and kept telling me I was beautiful and that the weight didn’t matter. He actually proposed to me when I was heavy and told me he loved me with padding or no padding. I do think when I first started gaining it was a shock to him - but somehow he could see through my bloated body to the woman he had originally fallen in love with. My mother and I have often said that many men would have run for hills. If he had run I wouldn’t have blamed him really. Well, maybe a little. All I know is I am unbelievably lucky to have someone like him. I think he is rare…
As for myself I don’t think I am attracted to extremely obese men. For me it would get in the way of the nitty gritty, intimate things that men and women do…But I have also found in my life that I’ve been attracted to people I never thought that I would be when I got to know them…I mean, if you instantly find someone repellent then move on. If you think “Oh, she’s really cool, but she’s not exactly my ideal.” Then maybe you should give her a chance. She could surprise you.
No you should not feel obligated to date someone you are not attracted to.
No, that’s no why you’re a shalow asshole…
Seriously, if you are not attracted to fat people – that’s one thing. But if you see your repulsion as some sort of smug victory of good taste, you are mistaken and will miss out of many lovely women to boot. I am hearing a sneer in your words that may not be intended. I would be happy to be corrected if I have misinterpreted.
What happens if you marry and your wife becomes fat?
Nope, no smug victory of good taste, no sneer in my words. I don’t care what other people think about the women I date, and I certainly don’t demean women for being overweight. Nor do I think they are “undatable” or that my ideal of beauty is the only valid standard.
It’s just that I’ve been close friends with a number of very nice women who just happened to be morbidly obese (we’re talking over 300 lbs here), and no matter how nice I thought they were, and no matter how otherwise compatible we were, I just couldn’t seem to work up any enthusiasm whatsoever for a physical relationship with them. Might as well ask me to french kiss a man and enjoy it – it just ain’t gonna happen.
I’m not only attracted to twigs, by the way. As I mentioned before, I do think that the thinner a women is, the more attractive she is (at least to me), but that doesn’t mean I am wholly unattracted to “normal” or even “voluptuous” women. And it also doesn’t mean that I have only dated skinny women in my life. But there is a certain undefinable point on the weight scale (no pun intended) where any physical attraction just disappears entirely.
As for what will happen if I marry and my wife becomes fat, well, in the first place I certainly hope that over the years our love will become so strong that I will love (and even be sexually attracted to) her regardless of how she looks. In the second place, however, my fiancee is Chinese, slender as a rail, and not likely to ever get morbidly obese.
Regards,
Barry
[Note: In the thread I alluded to in my original post, the poster – a bi-sexual male – was asking why is it OK to select sexual partners based on gender but not on other physical characteristics such as weight. He assumed that everybody would agree that only a “shallow asshole” would say he wouldn’t date fat women, which led him to claim that all straight and gay people were just as shallow for only dating members of our preferred gender. The purpose of this thread was to find out if, in fact, everybody would agree that only a “shallow asshole” would say he wouldn’t date fat women. So far, the general consensus (with a few dissenters) is that not wanting to date fat women does not, in and of itself, a “shallow asshole” make.]
Well, I’ll be buggered with a seven-foot carrot. The general impression I had, both from real-life conversation and Straight Dope threads (most of them in the Pit, which perhaps should have been a clue), was that most people would indeed consider such a person shallow. I stand corrected.
Also note that while I do refer to myself as a male, “bisexual” is godzillatemple’s label on me, not mine.
Well, it’s not easy being a short man. Just so you know. And for the record I’m 5’6" and Pricegal is 5’9".
Just so nobody accuses me of putting words into somebody else’s mouth, this is from that “other” thread:
Regards,
Barry
Note the “if I had to” part. Pretty important. Besides, it’s not like I want to kill you for calling me bisexual. I just prefer not to label myself that way.
And godzillatemple: No “spoken like a gentleman”? Not even a “told you so”?
Just like you prefer not to define “amorous love” as being inextricably connected with physical attraction, right? I’m totally hijacking my own thread here, but it’s awfully hard to have a discussion with somebody who comes up with his own definitions of common words and phrases and then can’t understand why nobody can explain their point of view to his satisfaction.
Most people define “bisexual” as “having a sexual orientation to persons of either sex” [that’s what my dictionary says, at least]. You have said the following about yourself:
Affix whatever labels you like to yourself, but in common parlance you are bisexual. Besides, it’s a lot easier to refer to you as a bisexual male than to call you “a male who is neither gay, nor straight, but who instead tries to go through life open-eyed in pursuit of happiness and who, although he does find females more attractive, and is happy that the love of his life is female, claims that he would be just as happy with the love of his life if she were male instead of female.” See what I mean? It just doesn’t quite roll off the tongue very well.
Nope, no “I told you so.” To be honest, I really didn’t know whether I would be branded as a “shallow asshole” or not in this thread. I didn’t start the thread to prove you wrong, but rather to find out for myself whether my point of view was correct or not. Or, as the saying goes, “It’s not always about you.”
As for “spoken like a gentleman,” I’m still trying to get the image of being buggered with a seven-foot carrot out of my mind.
Regards,
Barry
I didn’t try to. That the general view is that romantic love is inextricably connected with sex was a surprise to me. Call me naive if you wish. Or idealistic. Or a romantic fool. Or a plain fool.
Fair enough, I suppose I am bisexual then. But see it this way: if you knew a pre-operative male-to-female transsexual that wanted to be referred to as a woman, even though a five-second examination would prove that he/she is a man, you’d oblige, right? Same with me; I’d rather not be called bisexual. But I do understand why you used the word.
So I guess the discussion is over now. Well, I got a three-page thread and my very own spin-off thread out of it, so I can die with a smile on my face, without feeling that the good Lord gypped me.