Am I becoming a jerk or just getting a backbone? (long)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

(I think this is the right forum. If not please move it please)

I don’t know. This is probably inconsequential to everyone but…I just don’t know. I thought I’d throw this out there because this group seems to be able to draw a diverse opinion and cut through the BS.

I work in a field that has a reputation amongst society of making a good amount of money and a field that would be a ‘good catch’. I also have a more unusual position in that I have frequent contact with the public and people (usually women) that work for the same place. It is something colleagues do not like to do but I volunteered and enjoy doing it.

I am also single, looking and haven’t had a real date in around 3 years when I broke off a long term relationship. I know that when women dream about guys that they are not thinking about me. Realistically, I am probably a ‘4’ out of 10 on physical appearance/attractiveness to women but that is a guess.

Because of what I volunteered for, I have a much higher than usual contact with people that usually have difficulty meeting people like my colleagues and I. Many times I get asked if I know any single colleagues or friends that would be interested in being set up on dates. Usually the person asking this is not interested herself but is asking for friends/daughters/cousins whatever.

When this started happening I would talk with them and get info on who they are trying to set up and why. I would then comment that I was such a person. <<<<<<crickets>>>>>>>. <<<<<<uncomfortable silence>>>>>>>>. This would then be followed by an attempt to have me ask a colleague instead because of <insert obvious lame reason here>.

Along the same theme, every so often, a woman would try to make friends with me in a obvious attempt to get me to set her up or meet my friends so that she could put herself in a position to be asked out by them. This was particularly smart and cunning since she could drag up the ‘don’t want to lose our friendship’ excuse if I showed interest.

For 3 years I have gone along with this. (upon rereading it sounds like this happens all the time but we are talking every 3-4 months here). I did this because some colleagues do have trouble meeting women and I thought that one good turn would bring on another. No. No one has even bothered setting me up even when I have asked the people I have helped directly for the same favor.

I am sick of it. This last month I have met ‘Carol’. I didn’t ask Carol out but she made moves to want to be friends (I didn’t ask her out). I still think one cannot have too many friends and I like to talk with new people so I agreed. However, I refused to introduce her to any friends or colleagues. She has been hinting strongly and getting frustrated about this and I reply that we are all very busy and be patient.

She finally asked, 2 days ago if I knew anyone single I could set her up with. I replied that I would be interested - predictable results - don’t want to ruin friendship…

This time I was ready. I asked her if a real friend would set her up and she said yes. I then asked her to set me up with one of her friends. Oh my God, the horror in her eyes. I guess she just couldn’t do that to one of her friends - setting her up with me. This hurt me very deeply. She couldn’t do this and so I refuse to set her up. She said I was really a horrible jerk.

Ok…so am I a jerk and was acting appropriately before or am I now acting appropriately and was a chump before? Is it too much to ask for others to do the same that they ask of me? I am a little angry and hurt but I also don’t want to be a jerk.

I don’t know. If anyone is still reading this what are your thoughts?

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She wanted this from a ‘real friend’ but wouldn’t give the same consideration to you? What does that say about her, man?

3

What was it she said when you asked her to set you up with one of her friends? Did she have an excuse for you, a flat-out refusal, hemming and hawing?

From what I’m reading, it sounds like you have only been a jerk to someone who was trying to use you as a dating service. As I was told all through elementary school, Friendship Is A Two-Way Street. As far as I can tell, Carol got what she deserved.

4

It seriously sounds like you’re being used. I can’t necessarily speak for the other women, but if Carol did much of anything other than say “all my friends are involved” (possible), I’d say she definitely wasn’t being a friend to you.

5

wow you have met an obscene amount of manipulative women it seems. I wonder what your job is.

If a friend is only being my friend b/c they want to use me in some way screw 'em. I’m happier with my own comany.

I only make friends with people I know would ‘have my back’ if the chips were down and we’re only friends b/c we want to be. Needless to say I rarely have very many friends. (a total of 3 at the moment)

6

Day-um! You’ve got an incredibly shallow friend there!

You weren’t horrible - you were honest. In the future, just say Thanks but No Thanks. You don’t need to set these women up.
And find some other place to meet women, rather than through work. Broaden the gene pool.

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dsturm, welcome to the board! You´re not a jerk for refusing to go along with her demands. It was a good call not to set anyone up with your coworkers and / or friends anymore, it´s time to look out for yourself, if nobody is willing to help you out or return the favour. Imho, ymmv.

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Lots of hemming and hawing and we’ll seeing and nothing happening. What hurt was the expression/eyes when I asked. I could see the ‘I can’t set him up with my friends they would kill me’ thought in her brain, followed by the 'How am I going to get around this…". It just sucks that she and everyone else it seems would rather go out with someone they have never met than go out with me sitting in front of them. Ok, I’ll stop griping but it does suck.

I know I’m being used over the past 3 years but didn’t mind it at first. I just assumed people would actually give as well as take. Guess I was just naive. I think I am through helping people in this way until I have some come back at me. I’m just trying to bounce this off objective third parties to see if I am out of line or being reasonable.

DeVena I know I need to do this but I am not the type women look at and want. I’ve been me my whole life and it hasn’t happened yet. I know I sound like a loser here but I really do well in my career, make a good living and I am confident of myself…but I guess not with women.

I have always stayed low key, drive and old car that I had in school and live modestly. However, I am in my early 30’s now and am seriously thinking of getting a great car and a nice house and living the life that some colleagues do. Not that I want to attract golddiggers but at least a golddigger would be something rather than nothing.

I don’t know.

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welcome dsturm!

Chick here. You were pretty vague on your details, which unfortunately would have given me a better position to form an opinion.

At a guess it sounds like you’re a doctor of some sort who has volunteered to do some public outreach/charity work and you’re meeting a lot of women from a lower socioeconomic stratum. To me it sounds like you’re meeting women who are viewing men as a leg up into a better life. So, to respond to the type of women you’ve been meeting with this volunteer position, I say consider the source. It sounds like what all these women have in common is that they view you & your profession as an opportunity for them, not as a living, breathing person who happens to do X for a living.

As for you, you sound like a nice person. I think that as long as you were polite about it, you did exactly the right thing with “Carole”. I do think that you are probably fishing off the wrong pier for a date though. Take your experiences that you learn from these interactions and apply them elsewhere.

At the very least it sounds like you know how to TALK to a woman, and treat her as a friend. This is a skill that many men do not have.

As for setting other people up, it sounds like your initial motivations for it were a true kindness. That’s all it should be, kindness for its own sake. While it would be nice to have one good turn create another, I don’t think you’ll do yourself any favors if you expect it to be paid. You are building a stock of good Karma though. That WILL come back one day.

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I don’t know one person in a hundred who would set me up with one of their friends either. The way I typically remedy the all-give-and-no-take situation is to periodically kick everyone and his brother to the curb and start over. Yeah, it gets lonely, but occaisionally clearing out the deadwood frees up time and energy to pursue relationships that might be more worthwhile. Besides that, dating a co-worker or someone with whom you regularly have professional dealings tends to get complicated and causes more problems than it’s worth.

I’ve found that I usually meet ladies where I’d least expect it and when I’m not even looking - in the grocery store, at the diner, etc. I suspect you may be trying to hard. I’m not saying you’re wrong to expect reciprocity from your friends, I’m just saying it’s not a good idea to bank on it.

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Hi dsturm

Another woman chiming in here.

You said:

Are you sure about this?

You sound like a nice guy, who has had bad luck meeting the right women. Sometimes, nothing IS better than settling for 'something"

Since you are consistantly meeting women that view you as a dating service to other men in your field, maybe it’s time women that don’t know what you’re profession is.

12

Or to dig up another old quote, better to be alone than to wish you were.

13

I think you’re mixing up two separate issues:

Issue #1: Women who pretend to be your friends in the hopes that you’ll set them up with other people in your profession.

Issue #2: You are having a hard time finding women to date.

Carol was a clear example of #1. You did the right thing by refusing to allow yourself to be used by her. However, there’s clearly a lot of issue #2 mixed in there – you wanted to date her, but didn’t ask her out. You wanted to use her as a stepping stone to her friends in the same way she wanted to use you.

My advice: forget about issue #1 completely. If you meet a girl you like, get to know her and then ask her out. Be clear about what you want – you are interested in her romantically. If she isn’t interested, move on to someone else. It sounds like you have some self-confidence issues, which are almost certainly hurting you more than your looks ever could. An average-looking guy who thinks he’s worth dating will almost always be more successful than a good-looking guy who doesn’t.

This doesn’t mean you can’t make friends with women. But you should be friends with the people you like for their own sake, not just because you hope they’ll want to date you some day. Romantically pursue people you’re interested in romantically. If they say they only want to be friends, you’re not bound by that. It’s OK to not be friends.

Lastly, stop assuming you know what women want, in terms of looks, success, etc. It doesn’t come across well, and it’s certainly not true in all cases.

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I wholeheartedly agree with what everyone else has said. But I do have a couple of questions just out of curiosity, though. When you get to know these women that you become friends with, do you not ever go out in group situations, where you would meet each others friends? Have you ever just told one of the women, “No, sorry, I don’t know anyone available right now.”? I wonder what the reaction would be to that.

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Oh honey, you are in with the wrong bunch of women! First of all, quit all that fixing up stuff. It’s not the way to go. It’s like giving gifts and never getting any in return.

You must be selling yourself short. Plenty of people are “4’s” and damn proud of it. These women must be very shallow and immature. Real women are looking for a man who has something inside their heart to give and aren’t worried about the exterior too much. If there is something about you physically that bothers you, visit a plastic surgeon. You are an educated man and sound like a sensitive person who cares about feelings. You just haven’t found the right person yet. Never settle for less. Ferret Herder said it all. Most times when we quit looking is when the magic happens, so sit back and let it happen and enjoy.

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Carol’s a bitch. You’re not a jerk.

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This is really hard for me to do and read but I really do appreciate the responses!

White Ink is very intuitive, or psychic. Hit the nail right on the head. It also makes mammie’s post somewhat…ironic is the word?

Magnolia - The women who want to be friends always want to meet my friends as a group. They would like me to take them along like when we get together after work. They are looking for someone and I don’t think so negatively of them for that. I do think it’s ok to look for someone like this but maybe I’m too easy in my judgements. I don’t know.

Giraffe’s post is good in that I don’t have clear goals. I should set a clear goal and work on that till it is accomplished. In other words, stop trying to make friends and spending time doing this until I’ve found somebody. The problem is that I like meeting other people and finding out about them. Doesn’t have to be women…anybody. I especially like talking to the elderly. Clear goal – accomplish goal. This is sound advice.

The golddigger comment was said in frustration but meant, at least somewhat. I do think something would be better than nothing as long as I keep my head straight and keeping looking for the real deal. It’s not like I need to feel guilty about using a golddigger.

Geez, I can’t believe I am even thinking this way. It is so unlike me. I’m not liking my thoughts lately, which is why I posted here I guess. The secret nature of the internet really allows you to say things you would never say, not even to friends. I worry I’m turning into a jerk but also thinking that maybe I’m actually becoming normal. Confusion.

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dsturm,

you’re clearly not becoming ‘normal’. It seems you’re far to tender hearted to be just normal. You have a long long long way to go before you’d be a jerk. Standing up for yourself is not agressive behavior no matter what ANYONE says.

Always remember you don’t owe anyone anything and there’s no reason not to be treated like a human being with feelings. If you keep yourself to a certain standard it’s perfectly acceptable to hold your ‘friends’ to that standard as well.

Sounds like you need to go somewhere and vent a bit (maybe that’s what you’re doing now. I perfer listening to angry music) and get your head in order. Setting a goal and persuing it sounds like a very good idea for you.

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I must disagree slightly. I don’t think dsturm wanted to use Carol as a stepping stone to her friends. I thought, rather, that he was merely turning around the question on her to see where her loyalties lay. I will agree on the “wanted to date her” part, though.

If I may say, and I believe that this is a reiteration of several people’s postings, dsturm, it seems as if you are hanging back to see if something happens, rather than…er…well, for lack of a better phrase, “going after” the women that you meet. You don’t sound like you have a confidence problem, except (possibly) in the area of your physical self-image, and I think that that sense of poise can help you. So go get 'em. I wish you good luck, and I think you may surprise yourself. Oh, and keep us updated. Or at least me. I’m all interested now.

20

dsturm, first of all, forget the idea that “something is better than nothing.” It’s not. Especially not a golddigger – particularly for someone like you. How utterly horrible do you think you’ll feel when Ms. I’m Only Interested In You For Your Money has gotten all the perks of dating a man with money, gets tired of you and dumps you? Ugh. Trust me, you do not want this in your life. The cost is just way too high.

Secondly, have you ever watched a program on TLC called, “Date Patrol”? I am completely fascinated by this show. Each episode they take people who really are nice, decent people with a lot to offer and hook them up with professional body language, communications and style coaches to teach them the dating and socializing skills they need to be really attractive and successful in their quest. It’s not about “looks,” it’s about confidence and appropriate conversation topics and eye contact and posture and flirting skills and grooming and on and on. It always amazes me how they change a person without really changing what makes them them (if that makes any sense).

If you haven’t seen it, check out a few episodes. Perhaps you can pick up a few pointers you can put into action for yourself. Or maybe it’ll inspire you to seek out professionals in this field for consultations of your own (or heck, try to get on the show!). Finding out how to make yourself attractive to women through grooming, body language and communication skills will be much more beneficial and, IMNSHO, much more emotionally satisfying than seeing a plastic surgeon or settling for a golddigger.

Best of luck, and tell Carol to go blow.